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Professional forex traders

  • #81
  • Aug 29, 2010 6:12pm Aug 29, 2010 6:12pm
It's quite simple and an old secret:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2918/sobeit.png
  • #82
  • Aug 29, 2010 6:15pm Aug 29, 2010 6:15pm
So true.....
  • #83
  • Aug 29, 2010 6:18pm Aug 29, 2010 6:18pm
Quoting UnnamedPlayr
It's quite simple and an old secret:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2918/sobeit.png
or reverse that...(bottom) we sell here
(top) pros say haha..you're fucked asshole!
  • #84
  • Aug 29, 2010 7:57pm Aug 29, 2010 7:57pm
Quoting ab1
Hi

Thanks for your post, but the purpose of this thread was not to discuss my personal success or failure, or either my methods for trading. Its not about having to put my systems out there for you or others to analyze under a microscope. Or being tripped up because of this said or that said from previous posts. That is not the debate.

The purpose was to find out from traders that earn a living trading other peoples money, which is a big responsibility and highly stressful job, what they did, was it similar to what I do ?...

Ok, am still a bit confused about what you are trying to achieve. Your first 2 paragraphs seem contradictory. Firstly, you don't want to divulge what and how you do , but then you want to compare if what you do is better/same/worse than what someone else is doing??

The only thing I can take from your above post is that you want a 'professional/profitable' trader to tell you how much they make (not nessarily in $ terms, maybe, % wise, or pip wise etc), and how they do/did it, and then you want to see if they are doing better than you or you are doing better than them. All this without actually stating what's up for comparrision in terms of what you are doing. Seems a bit too ambitious I would say.

But just to sastisfy your curiosity for bench marking, I'll post a snipet of an email from a trader I used to be in touch with who traded on EBS, and the sort of returns he was advocating. I know there will be others who will not agree with these numbers, but that is the good thing about fx, one person can be happy with 30%, another with 100% etc.

What is a trader? I would define a trader as “someone whose mission is to make the most amount of money in the shortest possible time for as long as possible.”
What then is a good annual performance? As a rule of thumb as follows
For leverage of 1:1, ROI (Return on Investments) or ROA (Return on Accounts, whichever you fancy) should be at or above 50% per annum, anything less is dismal.
At 10:1 leverage your ROI should be at or above 800% per annum.
At 20:1 leverage your ROI should be at or above 1500% per annum.
At 50:1 leverage your ROI should be at or above 3500% per annum.
Of course we are dealing with meager amounts and not with real money here (see above).
As far as I am concern (these conclusions are from exhaustive backtesting using the best available data) the only way to make the most amount of money in the shortest possible time is to use high leverage courtesy of your PB. For example if your PB offers you 30:1 leverage you should be using at 10:1 and above but not over 21:1.

have fun.
Regards,
K.
  • #85
  • Aug 29, 2010 8:11pm Aug 29, 2010 8:11pm
Started out as a good thread. LOL
  • #86
  • Aug 29, 2010 11:00pm Aug 29, 2010 11:00pm
the problem we as retail traders have is that we "bottle" data into "containers" an example is a japanese candle stick..we created it, not the market.. you need to break away from timeframes that the market did NOT make and let the market TELL you what time frame it wants you on..I gotta sleep, but if you are still interested by tomorrow I will continue.

Regards,
diesel
  • #87
  • Aug 29, 2010 11:05pm Aug 29, 2010 11:05pm
Quoting dieselboy101
the problem we as retail traders have is that we "bottle" data into "containers" an example is a japanese candle stick..we created it, not the market.. you need to break away from timeframes that the market did NOT make and let the market TELL you what time frame it wants you on..I gotta sleep, but if you are still interested by tomorrow I will continue.

Regards,
diesel

Please do.
  • #88
  • Aug 30, 2010 12:41am Aug 30, 2010 12:41am
Quoting dieselboy101
the problem we as retail traders have is that we "bottle" data into "containers" an example is a japanese candle stick..we created it, not the market.. you need to break away from timeframes that the market did NOT make and let the market TELL you what time frame it wants you on..I gotta sleep, but if you are still interested by tomorrow I will continue.

Regards,
diesel

Yes we are, thanks
  • #89
  • Aug 30, 2010 12:55am Aug 30, 2010 12:55am
Quoting dieselboy101
the problem we as retail traders have is that we "bottle" data into "containers" an example is a japanese candle stick..we created it, not the market.. you need to break away from timeframes that the market did NOT make and let the market TELL you what time frame it wants you on..I gotta sleep, but if you are still interested by tomorrow I will continue.

Regards,
diesel
Interesting idea. Looking forward to hearing from you more.

Regards,
K.
  • #90
  • Aug 30, 2010 1:00am Aug 30, 2010 1:00am
Quoting kermut
Interesting idea. Looking forward to hearing from you more.

Regards,
K.
Looks like he is promoting renko charts or something similar

Is there any software out there that could help us backtest such an idea ?
  • #91
  • Aug 30, 2010 1:13am Aug 30, 2010 1:13am
Quoting dieselboy101
the problem we as retail traders have is that we "bottle" data into "containers" an example is a japanese candle stick..we created it, not the market.. you need to break away from timeframes that the market did NOT make and let the market TELL you what time frame it wants you on..I gotta sleep, but if you are still interested by tomorrow I will continue.

Regards,
diesel
There's nothing wrong with using candlesticks. Bottled or not, candlesticks show strength as well as any renko or crb chart does. Long bearish candles and long bullish candles are one of my favorite candlesticks and quite frankly I could do very well without using anything else (most others are good for confirmation). I think this is much more a personal preference issue than anything else. I do see where you are pointing, though, but I wouldn't go as far as to tell anyone that something doesn't work when clearly a lot of people are using OHLC bars and candlesticks and are successful at it.
If you don't risk, you don't ever have to lose.
  • #92
  • Aug 30, 2010 1:25am Aug 30, 2010 1:25am
Quoting ab1
Hi everyone

Ok I've been trading for about 2 years full time, I have traded literally hundreds of systems from all over the place. Forex Factory, TSD, Baby Pips, etc etc, to name but a few. I have used another 50 robots to try and do it for me, some are actually quite good, but most of the time just break even long term.
Can you please list at least two Professional trading books you've read to help you on your journey?

By Professional, I mean written by a Pro Trader who specifically outlines strategies , not an author or motivation coach.
  • #93
  • Aug 30, 2010 3:23am Aug 30, 2010 3:23am
Quoting mfoste1
you wont find those guys lurking around here.....and even if they were around, they wouldn't tell you much.....There are a few institutional traders in FF however, theyre good guys.

I guess what I'm trying to say is institutional trading is a horse of a different color. So If they had advice for you, it would be hard to apply to your strategies as a retail trader.

they won't tell you much because usually they don't know how to tell it! it's not like trading system section with all that bs, but longterm experience, strong economical and fundamental view and when it comes to technical it's totally discretionary trading most of time without using SL's. Believe me that i know what i'm talking about I'm working with pros for few months(and hopie i will be a pro too ) and it's really hard to learn from them myself because it's not about indies or some setups which occurs and they just enter the position, they'are just telling me to take it easy, not to overtrade, and the main thing i think is to be neutral to your position and always change your view according to market behaviour and be ready to close it, and that it's better to have some profit and close as have profit be greedy and let it became a looser...
  • #94
  • Edited 5:04am Aug 30, 2010 3:47am | Edited 5:04am
Quoting kermut
Ok, am still a bit confused about what you are trying to achieve. Your first 2 paragraphs seem contradictory. Firstly, you don't want to divulge what and how you do , but then you want to compare if what you do is better/same/worse than what someone else is doing??

The only thing I can take from your above post is that you want a 'professional/profitable' trader to tell you how much they make (not nessarily in $ terms, maybe, % wise, or pip wise etc), and how they do/did it, and then you want to see if they are doing better than you or you...
Kermut

Complicated post but thanks anyway.

If your confused about what Im trying to achieve then go back to Post #1 and read that a few times. Its not complicated but like hundreds of people that post relentlessly on numerous posts all over this forum, they make it complicated, there complicated people, they want it to be complicated, they enjoy being complicated and making a "Mountain out of a mole hill".

Quick True Story about complicated people.............
I used to play in bands back in the day...
My friend had a recording studio in London and was a good Sound engineer, he was also a technical guy and every thing he did was complicated.
One day we lost sound in the studio, chaos broke out, several assistants joined in, mixing desks were stripped down, patch cables by the hundred were brought out and connected to everything in sight, after several hours screaming and frustration ensued.......
But then the drummer reached across the mixing desk and turned up the master volume knob......hey presto !! it all sprang into life.

Some people just love complicated.

LOL
  • #95
  • Aug 30, 2010 4:31am Aug 30, 2010 4:31am
Hi Everyone

OK Im slowly coming to the conclusion that there are not very many Professional traders lurking around this forum, so this Thread I started may well have been a waste of time.

I thank everyone that has posted, whether I agreed or disagreed with what they said.

Ive had a couple of PM's from a few professionals that are very reluctant to post anything on my thread or any threads. But have been kind enough to at least make contact direct and explain some things. They have tried before to post on this forum and by the sounds of it have been largely put off by the type of response they get on many of the threads.

I have stayed away from wanting to discuss my own personal trading methods as I didn't want the thread to go down that route and turn into a long winded thread debating which indicator works or does not work. It was never about trying to create a system, I have many systems for different types of trading....see post #1, the list is there. You can find information all over the internet on them.

What this is about is......Do Professional Traders use these types to systems to trade with ? and if not what do they use?

As the threads not going anywhere and bringing in the information I was hoping for, not just for me but all of those that have contributed, I may well have to pursue my quest for additional knowledge further afield.

To be honest Im only wishing to trade and that takes up most of my time and leaves little time to spend hours on here writing posts that are not about the subject I wanted to explore.

If anyone new to forex is looking for a system then there are several on here that will get you started, Im not going to recommend a list, but take a look and you will see the ones with the most contribution to them is a fairly good starting point.

Cheers for now and good luck !
  • #96
  • Aug 30, 2010 4:44am Aug 30, 2010 4:44am
Quoting ab1
Hi Everyone

OK Im slowly coming to the conclusion that there are not very many Professional traders lurking around this forum, so this Thread I started may well have been a waste of time.
There certainly are some professional traders on FF but either they are silent or they post non serious posts. They often have very interesting insights but they mostly speak through private messages. But let's be real : this is more of a beginner forum board and there are board for far more advanced players.



Quote
What this is about is......Do Professional Traders use these types to systems to trade with ? and if not what do they use?
Quote
Breakout
Swing
Trend
Scalp
Grid
Support & Resistance
Pivots
Dumb Luck !
Toss of a coin !
Money management
From what I gathered none of these are the main pillar of their strategies
  • #97
  • Aug 30, 2010 5:09am Aug 30, 2010 5:09am
Most professional traders would be market makers. Something the forex market does not need. That means that the bulk of the pro's at work in the forex market usually consists of hedgers and long term strategists looking at fundamental data rather than short/medium term technical speculating that private traders would be interested in.
  • #98
  • Aug 30, 2010 5:16am Aug 30, 2010 5:16am
Hi,

I want to know how much time it will take to become the professional forex traders and how much do we need to invest on it....

looking for expert's advise

Thanks
Albert.
  • #99
  • Aug 30, 2010 6:19am Aug 30, 2010 6:19am
Quoting AlbertPortsm
Hi,

I want to know how much time it will take to become the professional forex traders and how much do we need to invest on it....

looking for expert's advise

Thanks
Albert.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_%28book%29

malcolm's got the idea.....
  • #100
  • Aug 30, 2010 6:22am Aug 30, 2010 6:22am
Quoting AlbertPortsm
Hi,

I want to know how much time it will take to become the professional forex traders and how much do we need to invest on it....

looking for expert's advise

Thanks
Albert.
10,000 hours and 10,000 dollars is a good start. Just like everything else in life, it takes time, dedication and commitment
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