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Professional forex traders

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Sep 19, 2010 4:44am Aug 27, 2010 2:09pm | Edited Sep 19, 2010 4:44am
Hi everyone

I just needed to ask the following questions........

1) Are you a professional Forex Trader (i.e. working for someone you have to attain results for to keep your job)
2) What systems, strategies, methods do you use
3) How does your average Forex trader become successful
4) What have you been taught, that enables you to succeed.

Ok I've been trading for about 2 years full time, I have traded literally hundreds of systems from all over the place. Forex Factory, TSD, Baby Pips, etc etc, to name but a few. I have used another 50 robots to try and do it for me, some are actually quite good, but most of the time just break even long term.

I have never come across in that time any information about profitable trading, from real professionals in the industry, just loads of people claiming to have found the "Holy Grail" and they have the system.... the system that will create unbelievable wealth for you. oh! I forgot that wealth will be achieved with little or no effort from you !!

So what works then, is it.................

Breakout
Swing
Trend
Scalp
Grid
Support & Resistance
Pivots
Dumb Luck !
Toss of a coin !
Money management

I've tried and seen them all, backtested them until the early hours of the morning, sometimes at the expense of no sleep at all...... going "Blind Sided" looking at charts. I've designed EA's, written EA's, paid people to do it for me based on my Strategy....... but only moderate success to date.

So come on you Professional Forex Traders lets get down to the "nitty gritty "

What is realistic and works over time ?

Lets put our heads together and get this sorted. We want the definitive answer !!

WHAT WORKS !!


Cheers


ab1



******* IMPORTANT ADDITION ADDED ON 19/09/10 *******

Please read the questions asked above (Numbers 1,2 3 & 4), if they don't apply to you or you feel that they do but are not willing to make a constructive addition to this thread then please do not post anything on here. Any non polite or irrelevant posts will be erased and blocked.

This thread is about gathering information from anyone professional/successful that is willing to share there knowledge, wisdom, experience and techniques used to trade. No one has to, but if they do then everyone on here would be interested.

Although many that have posted on here, including myself, have expressed opinions about trading, this thread is not really about that, or is it about debate as to what works, or is it exploring with other traders what might work, or is it the search for the Holy Grail, there are hundreds of other threads that deal with all those issues on FF.

Its about asking if anybody wants to mentor/teach others looking to take there trading to a successful & professional business level and make a success of it. The only question that really remains is do those individuals exist on this forum
  • #2
  • Aug 27, 2010 2:21pm Aug 27, 2010 2:21pm
Look behind you! Do you see the 5 % to do well financially?

Why would they give you wilderness tips? ,...to take oneself too seriously?
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  • #3
  • Aug 27, 2010 3:25pm Aug 27, 2010 3:25pm
Quoting ab1
Hi everyone

I just needed to ask the following questions........

1) Are you a professional Forex Trader (i.e. working for someone you have to attain results for to keep your job)
2) What systems, strategies, methods do you use
3) How does your average Forex trader become successful
4) What have you been taught, that enables you to succeed.

Ok I've been trading for about 2 years full time, I have traded literally hundreds of systems from all over the place. Forex Factory, TSD, Baby Pips, etc etc, to name but a few....
I can say I'm in the same situation as you. I've invested a lot of money on forex programs and materials. Your questions are relevant. I would like to contribute.
What are you suggesting with this thread?

Cheers
If I Change, the whole World changes!
  • #4
  • Aug 27, 2010 3:35pm Aug 27, 2010 3:35pm
Quoting ab1
Hi everyone

I just needed to ask the following questions........

1) Are you a professional Forex Trader (i.e. working for someone you have to attain results for to keep your job)
2) What systems, strategies, methods do you use
3) How does your average Forex trader become successful
4) What have you been taught, that enables you to succeed.

Ok I've been trading for about 2 years full time, I have traded literally hundreds of systems from all over the place. Forex Factory, TSD, Baby Pips, etc etc, to name but a few....
From what you have listed above I found only the jobs that are guaranteed profitable is to program EA for others (or sell it).
  • #5
  • Aug 27, 2010 3:47pm Aug 27, 2010 3:47pm
I am not a professional forex trader, nor do I play one on TV.
But...

Read all the posts by these two (real) Pros,
don't worry... there are not that many.

Peter Crowns
http://www.forexfactory.com/member.php?u=63530

Joel Rensink
http://www.forexfactory.com/member.php?u=25481

They both favor longer term trend following...which many people forget... has significant drawdown periods.

Joel once specifically mentioned this method here on FF also
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=4113


But as for making 100% per month, with low drawdown and hardly
any losing days.... we will have to keep looking.
  • #6
  • Edited 4:07pm Aug 27, 2010 3:55pm | Edited 4:07pm
The numerous strat and EAs that you have tried is the bane of most retail traders. Let me ask a question?
Have you seen a fighter pilot specialised in say an F 16 aircraft wake up the next day and jump into the cockpit of a Tornado or Mig 21 and fly. Or have you seen an ENT Specialist perform the task of a gynaecologist because he is a doctor. Consequentely jumping from one system to another is a recipe for failure. You only need two strategies, one for a trending market and the other for a ranging market. Also vital are understanding of current market sentiment,Good money management and the virtue of patience.

Secondly, the sooner retail traders learn that technical analysis is only part of the equation to become succcesful in this biz on a long term basis. You cannot be succesful in the long term without understanding the fundies that drive price action . We have all heard about the expliots of Jesse Livermore or more currently George Soros. What was there secret, simple predicting future price action through fundamental analysis and market sentiment.

Thirdly what instituitonal traders have going for them is simply being able to see order flows and taking advantage of it on the back of sound analysis of market sentiment.

Quoting ab1
Hi everyone

I just needed to ask the following questions........

1) Are you a professional Forex Trader (i.e. working for someone you have to attain results for to keep your job)
2) What systems, strategies, methods do you use
3) How does your average Forex trader become successful
4) What have you been taught, that enables you to succeed.

Ok I've been trading for about 2 years full time, I have traded literally hundreds of systems from all over the place. Forex Factory, TSD, Baby Pips, etc etc, to name but a few....
LISTEN TO MR FUNDAMENTAL AND MR TECHNICAL
  • #7
  • Aug 27, 2010 7:20pm Aug 27, 2010 7:20pm
Quoting okehiedon
The numerous strat and EAs that you have tried is the bane of most retail traders. Let me ask a question?
Have you seen a fighter pilot specialised in say an F 16 aircraft wake up the next day and jump into the cockpit of a Tornado or Mig 21 and fly. Or have you seen an ENT Specialist perform the task of a gynaecologist because he is a doctor. Consequentely jumping from one system to another is a recipe for failure. You only need two strategies, one for a trending market and the other for a ranging market. Also vital are understanding of current...
So what your point is then is that we are barking up the wrong tree looking at this industry thinking we can rely on a mechanical system to do it for us, indicators alone are just not going to do it !

Our focus must be on predicting price movement through reading news and we must be up to date with world wide events that will almost certainly effect a countries currency..... sounds logical if thats what your point is, its a bit like investing in stocks, you just wouldn't unless you could see a reason behind such an investment, a reason for the price of a stock to move in the future from an influencing event.
  • #8
  • Aug 27, 2010 7:32pm Aug 27, 2010 7:32pm
Quoting Forex Girl
I can say I'm in the same situation as you. I've invested a lot of money on forex programs and materials. Your questions are relevant. I would like to contribute.
What are you suggesting with this thread?

Cheers
I guess my goal is to find out from other traders a realistic solution to trading Forex.

Am I wasting my time in the pursuit of making money on currency trading the way I have been doing it and am doing it now?

Is it time for a change of direction with what Im doing, am I actually going in the right direction, is it time for a complete re-think on my trading plan ?

Has anyone got a mechanical system/systems they have found have worked for them over time ?

I wanted to know from a Forex trader that trades full time for a bank or the like, what his/her daily routine was like and how they went about it. It wasn't really to try and come up with a new system, another massive thread dedicated to hundreds, if not thousands of posts, using endless indicators, that will invariably result in long term failure. but to try and find from a real hard working forex trader what they do.

I guess that was the idea behind the thread, the pursuit of knowledge.
  • #9
  • Aug 27, 2010 7:37pm Aug 27, 2010 7:37pm
Quoting Forexcube
Look behind you! Do you see the 5 % to do well financially?

Why would they give you wilderness tips? ,...to take oneself too seriously?
Yep, anyone doing well may not be spending there time on this kind of thread looking for answers, they wouldn't need to I guess would they !

I was just hoping some extremely successful Forex trader, that was board and surfing the net, would stumble across this thread and tell me what there doing ....lol..... Im an optimistic type of guy.
  • #10
  • Aug 27, 2010 7:43pm Aug 27, 2010 7:43pm
Quoting coppernob108
From what you have listed above I found only the jobs that are guaranteed profitable is to program EA for others (or sell it).
Yes I agree with you 100%, I was just starting to go down that route myself, but thought Id try this first.

I have an EA that Im writing with someone right now, that I was considering marketing....... looks like I could be heading for a "Click Bank account", affiliate links and the like..........I was just hoping that wasn't the answer.
  • #11
  • Aug 27, 2010 7:49pm Aug 27, 2010 7:49pm
Quoting okehiedon
Consequentely jumping from one system to another is a recipe for failure. You only need two strategies, one for a trending market and the other for a ranging market. Also vital are understanding of current market sentiment,Good money management and the virtue of patience.

Secondly, the sooner retail traders learn that technical analysis is only part of the equation to become succcesful in this biz on a long term basis. You cannot be succesful in the long term without understanding the fundies that drive price action . We have all heard about...
Good answers, but I have to disagree about jumping from one system to another, I think an open mind initially is required and the willingness to learn all aspects of an industry/ profession. Otherwise its impossible to make judgements in the future, you have nothing to compare anything too or experience to draw on.

But if you would be kind enough to give an example of how you would use what your saying above on a day to day basis when trading, then Id be more than happy to listen.
  • #12
  • Aug 27, 2010 8:03pm Aug 27, 2010 8:03pm
Quoting Intu
I am not a professional forex trader, nor do I play one on TV.
But...

Read all the posts by these two (real) Pros,
don't worry... there are not that many.

Peter Crowns
http://www.forexfactory.com/member.php?u=63530

Joel Rensink
http://www.forexfactory.com/member.php?u=25481

They both favor longer term trend following...which many people forget... has significant drawdown periods.

Joel once specifically mentioned this method here on FF also
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=4113...
Yes I looked at those threads myself previously as well. The idea that trend following is the answer is not a bad one. Have you read "Turtle Traders", I know its about stocks mainly, but its an interesting read. That whole method is based on just that with Money Management being a key point.

Your last remark is also relevant to something I stumbled across today, it was a system you had to pay a monthly subscription to use, about £150 per month, which made me lose interest straight away to be honest, but it was unusual to find something that gave out a years worth of back tests that showed only about a 45% win rate, with about 30% + drawdown, but still made on average (or claimed too) of £2000 per month on each currency pair. It looked like they were trading 1 lot, so there EA's for each pair where averaging about 200 pips a month. They where trading 10 pairs. So potentially 2000 pips per month or £20,000

Might have to go back a have another dig around on that one !! Ive seen many of this type of product before, but on reflection never one admitting to those type of results with respect to the system win rate.
  • #13
  • Aug 27, 2010 9:16pm Aug 27, 2010 9:16pm
  •  Czech
  • | Joined Feb 2010 | Status: You Don't Know What You Don't Know | 111 Posts
When reading the forum and considering opinions i try to keep in mind a few things.

95% of traders are losers (or however you want to interpret this beaten down stat). So right off the bat at least 95% of the posts here are total bullshit (maybe even this one!).

For those who are profitable, sharing their method with you means sharing the liquidity they're profiting from. What percentage of profitable traders are willing to risk their bread and butter to be e-popular?

Also, profitable traders are less likely to post on a public forum than someone trying to become profitable. I think it's safe to assume much less than 5% of all posters make true consistent profits.

In my opinion, the best you can hope for on the public forums is getting a taste of info, from someone who knows what they're talking about, that has the potential to put you on the right track without putting you directly into their liquidity.

As has been shown in the past, any true edge posted on a public forum will lead to its worthlessness in short order. Think about that for a second. Even if somebody did post the holy grail, by the nature of supply and demand, the grail would thereafter cease to exist.

So next time your back-testing/ forward-testing/ re-testing any method or idea derived from any public forum, keep in mind you're probably taking advice from a loser and they've already ruined any edge they may have had by sharing their info with you and everyone else.

There are rare exceptions (eg: vegas, j16) but i think this holds true for the most part.

I'm not profitable so take this with a grain of salt!
  • #14
  • Aug 27, 2010 10:13pm Aug 27, 2010 10:13pm
Quoting ab1
So what works then, is it.................

Breakout
Swing
Trend
Scalp
Grid
Support & Resistance
Pivots
Dumb Luck !
Toss of a coin !
Money management
1. Controlling your emotions (fear/greed)
2. Do not trade if your edge is not evident
3. Learn to control risk
4. Know your edge and how to recognize it
5. Once your edge presents do not hesitate

What is your edge in the market that is the question.
  • #15
  • Aug 28, 2010 3:43am Aug 28, 2010 3:43am
Quoting Czech
When reading the forum and considering opinions i try to keep in mind a few things.

95% of traders are losers (or however you want to interpret this beaten down stat). So right off the bat at least 95% of the posts here are total bullshit (maybe even this one!).

I'm not profitable so take this with a grain of salt!
Hi Czech

Interesting points but this is a 4 Trillion a day + industry. Even if I found the Grail and was making $1M a day trading, my trades would have no effect on the market what so ever, the rest of the world wouldn't even no I existed.

So I have to respectfully disagree that I could affect anyones liquidity. There is definitely a suspicion by many that there is some hidden force scheming behind there backs, when I think its more a case that they simply don't know how to trade and therefore lose. Its much easier to blame others for ones failure than to look at yourself as the problem. Not saying thats the case with you, Im just making a general observation.

cheers
  • #16
  • Aug 28, 2010 3:54am Aug 28, 2010 3:54am
Quoting Musashi
1. Controlling your emotions (fear/greed)
2. Do not trade if your edge is not evident
3. Learn to control risk
4. Know your edge and how to recognize it
5. Once your edge presents do not hesitate

What is your edge in the market that is the question.
Musashi

Yes Money Management is without doubt the number one factor to becoming successful, I was having a conversation with one of the original "Turtle Traders" and he said to me that he had worn that expression out over many years preaching it during seminars etc, he sounded like he was saying that although he keeps repeating it, traders still don't consider it as the 1st discipline to master..... and more time than not it goes in one ear and out the other, so as a successful trader himself I guess that could be a good starting point for this thread for building a profitable system maybe.

1) Money Management is the EDGE... rule number one !


cheers
  • #17
  • Aug 28, 2010 7:14am Aug 28, 2010 7:14am
Wow !

Just looking at how many people have looked at this thread since I started it yesterday, over 1100..... with only 7 actual replies. Just goes to show the depth of people looking for a system to trade with, but have nothing to contribute to the debate about what works !

I didn't realise it was that many, you can see why the Scammers seem to do so well with the promise of a system that will make you millions overnight with three clicks on the mouse button and "clickbank" fee of $97, all your troubles are over.....LOL !
  • #18
  • Aug 28, 2010 7:36am Aug 28, 2010 7:36am
Quoting Czech
As has been shown in the past, any true edge posted on a public forum will lead to its worthlessness in short order. Think about that for a second. Even if somebody did post the holy grail, by the nature of supply and demand, the grail would thereafter cease to exist.

So next time your back-testing/ forward-testing/ re-testing any method or idea derived from any public forum, keep in mind you're probably taking advice from a loser and they've already ruined any edge they may have had by sharing their info with you and everyone else.

There are...
Is this how it works in reality? If I reveal my magical system to hundreds or thousands of people, won’t their following my signal push price the way I, ultimately we, want it to go? 10,000 people each buying 1 contract of the EURUSD at the same time will cause price to go up, will it not?

Alright then, here’s my magical system – buy on the 5EMA cross of the EMA34 high, sell on the 5EMA cross of the EMA34 low.

I work full time and I sporadically use this method. It works depending on the analysis done about where the currency may be going – i.e. basic fundamentals which is hard to put into words.

What you wrote about Czech, holds true for horse/dog betting. 10,000 people betting on a horse/dog will shorten its betting payout price dramatically. Here you need to be secretive.
  • #19
  • Aug 28, 2010 8:04am Aug 28, 2010 8:04am
Quoting Macdon
Is this how it works in reality? If I reveal my magical system to hundreds or thousands of people, won’t their following my signal push price the way I, ultimately we, want it to go? 10,000 people each buying 1 contract of the EURUSD at the same time will cause price to go up, will it not?

Alright then, here’s my magical system – buy on the 5EMA cross of the EMA34 high, sell on the 5EMA cross of the EMA34 low.

I work full time and I sporadically use this method. It works depending on the analysis done about where the currency...
OK so your whole strategy is based on Fundamentals, when you have some idea which way a currency will go, presumably by either a News release, Newspaper article or TV news story, you enter with the cross of a 5/34 EMA in the direction you suspect price will go.

OK so next question..... do you have a favorite currency pair and what time frame do you consider it is best on.

Very simple strategy, but hey, I'll look at anything.

So from what you say your not employed to make money using this type of strategy, this is just one you use to confirm entry after you have gathered fundamental information. Well the News must be key to this strategy as Im confident that if you made a simple EA to trade entry and exit on an EMA cross your account would deplete at a rapid rate long term.


Cheers thanks for the input, appreciate it.
  • #20
  • Aug 28, 2010 9:00am Aug 28, 2010 9:00am
I'm really new at this... but simplicity isn't important in this business?!?!

I read that to keep it simple is the way to go.. KISS (Keep it simple stupid!)
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