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James16+Rayanmcd(Jan kone) and ME 7 replies

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Jankone M5 thread

  • #3,861
  • Aug 10, 2010 3:26pm Aug 10, 2010 3:26pm
hi Judith cant see any PB with CT+Div or any confluence.....Even Any PA setup with Nice Div...U have to care about Real PA with CT+div..for this u have to learn jokon posts.....i m still leaning ..i have done 3 trades and 3 are win..and i posted them..u can see..hope its help u ..

Muhammad






Quoting judith
When I started in this, I got really frustrated when I saw the rest of members (supposedly) making tons of money, posting 95% winning rates and perfect charts. Somehow, I found out it wasn't at all true, that's the reason I try to post my losing trades, so that others learn from my mistakes and get a feel of what live trading really is, I still consider myself...
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  • #3,862
  • Aug 10, 2010 5:02pm Aug 10, 2010 5:02pm
Quoting judith
My chart: almost 2 weeks had gone by with only my taking 1 trade ...all that time made me lose control and pulled the trigger with this mediocre setup, the result of course FULL LOSS.
This was a good trade for you though. You have probablly learned more in this quick trade about the system and yourself than in the 2weeks of watching?

I've just found this thread and it is indeed a sys that needs patience but as you have found taking positions is a great way to learn. You should be doing this on demo acc or with v small ammounts because the learning curve can go on for months and years and you can loose a lot of money along the way!

For more signals and less waiting keep an eye on more pairs? Good luck.
  • #3,863
  • Aug 11, 2010 6:25am Aug 11, 2010 6:25am
Chart.....
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  • #3,864
  • Aug 11, 2010 7:37am Aug 11, 2010 7:37am
Quoting Muhammad989
Chart.....
Mine was on EURJPY same set up
My edge ===> Patience
  • #3,865
  • Aug 11, 2010 2:30pm Aug 11, 2010 2:30pm
Chart Tp hit ...
Quoting Muhammad989
Chart.....
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #3,866
  • Aug 13, 2010 7:10am Aug 13, 2010 7:10am
positive ct/div trade
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  • #3,867
  • Aug 13, 2010 7:59pm Aug 13, 2010 7:59pm
it never ceases to amaze me how a simple and effective method of trading gets complicated with more indicators. The indicators are there only to show overbought and oversold conditions it is in those conditions that we look for divergence to happen
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  • #3,868
  • Aug 14, 2010 2:18am Aug 14, 2010 2:18am
Quoting Divergence
it never ceases to amaze me how a simple and effective method of trading gets complicated with more indicators...
can u be more specific, Sir?

if u are referring to the indicators used primarily in this thread -- BBs, MAs, RSI...
well, with all due respect, u are suffering from sycophantism yourself.
check your latest chart. it shows two oscillators basically saying the same thing. please look in the mirror before u open your mouth.

this is an internatinal forum & everyone is unique. moreover, forums like this are rich in new traders, so dont expect everyone to be as 'good' or 'experienced' as u.

"if u cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
"if u dont like the food served to u, eat somewhere else."
  • #3,869
  • Aug 14, 2010 2:44am Aug 14, 2010 2:44am
Quoting Divergence
it never ceases to amaze me how a simple and effective method of trading gets complicated with more indicators. The indicators are there only to show overbought and oversold conditions it is in those conditions that we look for divergence to happen
Apart from supremeChaos' pertinent remarks, I'd like to add that you seem to be missing the point here.

Given your tag name you should know that naked divergence trades aren't always easy to time.

And the Bollinger bands help you with that. Take a look at the attached chart. Should you sell at the first higher high with divergence? The Bollinger Bands told you it would be better to wait, whereas the next higher high is a no-brainer.
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  • #3,870
  • Aug 14, 2010 3:20am Aug 14, 2010 3:20am
medici,
Awesome point Sir.

hopefully u can post again next time.
  • #3,871
  • Aug 14, 2010 4:16am Aug 14, 2010 4:16am
Quoting supremeChaos
medici,
Awesome point Sir.

hopefully u can post again next time.
Thank you! I did post this in Islander's and my thread...

Some concluding remarks on this little exchange following Divergence's post:

Just like so many others I have gone through the journey of stripping my charts from all indicators down to trading naked charts. And then I've added a few back on with the added 'wisdom' that comes from trading naked charts.

Some of the best traders I know use indicators, and I believe that one benefits from viewing the market through some framework/lens.

Just as for Jankone's system, what is needed is some indicators coupled with trading rules that are not just indicator based but 'naked'.

To finish off let me quote Albert Einstein and say "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." Striking that balance is the key to successful trading, I think.

And it seems like our friend Divergence hasn't made things as simple as possible having two divergence indicators on his charts, and at the same time he has made things simpler than possible by believing that candle-stick patterns alone are sufficient for timing.
  • #3,872
  • Aug 14, 2010 7:10am Aug 14, 2010 7:10am
Quoting medici
Apart from supremeChaos' pertinent remarks, I'd like to add that you seem to be missing the point here.

Given your tag name you should know that naked divergence trades aren't always easy to time.

And the Bollinger bands help you with that. Take a look at the attached chart. Should you sell at the first higher high with divergence? The Bollinger Bands told you it would be better to wait, whereas the next higher high is a no-brainer.
I still have a problem to understand BBs Can you please explain me how is BBs telling me it is better to wait? Is it because PA si outside BBs?
  • #3,873
  • Edited Aug 15, 2010 6:21am Aug 14, 2010 10:57am | Edited Aug 15, 2010 6:21am
Quoting jajo
I still have a problem to understand BBs Can you please explain me how is BBs telling me it is better to wait? Is it because PA si outside BBs?
Good question. It's about the slope of the band as well as the slope of the MA. The BBs act as momentum indicators in the sense that they will start to flatten before the slope of the MA flattens.

So my answer to your question would be that it's better to wait till the BB flattens, for a reversal trade that is. As such it will be something you can hold on to for possibly hours and many pips.

You can find an example of such a reversal trade, from NFP Friday a week ago, attached. Nice way of picking a reversal that lasted a week for more than 500 pips

This is not to say that the first trade (in the chart in my previous post) is a no-no - it's just that it's a counter-trend trade rather than a reversal trade, and as such comes with more risk and less potential.

I hope that answers the question.
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  • #3,874
  • Aug 14, 2010 1:59pm Aug 14, 2010 1:59pm
Thanks Medici! You helped me
  • #3,875
  • Aug 16, 2010 7:49am Aug 16, 2010 7:49am
nice trend and strong div. where is the a+ pin
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  • #3,876
  • Aug 16, 2010 10:02am Aug 16, 2010 10:02am
the only reason i have 2 ob/os indicators up there is for divergence only if 1 or both show its fine as long as 1 of them shows it.Well i have been doing this for a long time just thought i would help looks like its not needed here you all have a good trading career
  • #3,877
  • Aug 16, 2010 5:50pm Aug 16, 2010 5:50pm
Quoting dhh
nice trend and strong div. where is the a+ pin
Are these good enough for you? They may not be A+, but they sure as hell are with the trend and all would have made you money.

Looking for a perfect setup is admirable, but focusing on that shouldn't make you miss what's in right front of you.


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It's not about how much you make, it's about how much you don't lose.
  • #3,878
  • Aug 17, 2010 7:24am Aug 17, 2010 7:24am
Quoting Dhb
Are these good enough for you? They may not be A+, but they sure as hell are with the trend and all would have made you money.

Looking for a perfect setup is admirable, but focusing on that shouldn't make you miss what's in right front of you.


Attachment
I know what you mean

Less than A+ pins could look good and attractive after the fact, but we all know how it makes all the difference when we see them formed in real time. I've went through stages which I switch back and forth between taking or rejecting non A+ setups, and the results convinced me of the lessons. And I'm currently focusing on A+ setups only.

I do believe these pins can make money, and I look forward to trading them when my eyes and mind are ready
  • #3,879
  • Edited 10:27am Aug 17, 2010 10:25am | Edited 10:27am
When taking trend trades, it's more important that you see a rejection of the mid-BB area than seeing perfectly shaped price action (PA) imho. Of course, perfectly shaped PA is a bonus, but the trend is your "get out of jail free"-card, so to speak. Lots of crappy pins work surprisingly well when taken with the trend.

This "rejection PA" could be in the form of one or more tails (pins), could be in the form of two opposite momentum candles (2-bar pin, see second to last pullback I indicated), or some other PA, like an outside/engulfing candle, or like the last pullback I highlighted, which shows a bullish candle, followed by an inside candle, followed by a bearish outside candle (bearish engulfing would have been even better of course). They all show rejection and trend continuation.

When you're looking to take a CT pin + div trade, you want the best of the best, both with respect to shape and location, due to the higher risk involved. But when you see a trend as shown above and you see mid-BB rejection, do yourself a favor and pull the trigger. You can be wrong only once when trading the trend, and that's when you catch the top/bottom of it.
It's not about how much you make, it's about how much you don't lose.
  • #3,880
  • Aug 17, 2010 10:38am Aug 17, 2010 10:38am
chart****
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