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I am demotivated...

  • #41
  • Aug 8, 2010 4:29am Aug 8, 2010 4:29am
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”

- Calvin Coolidge

Hard work and diligent study will get you anywhere you want to go. Two years is hardly enough to become a proficient trader, especially if you're on the long hard road all by yourself.
  • #42
  • Aug 8, 2010 4:51am Aug 8, 2010 4:51am
Quoting scott89
If you're talking about taking her classes, I'm from Italy and i don't have the money lol, that would be a fantastic experience anyway. Unluckily I don't have enought money to come and live in the US, even if it's for a short while.
What I meant is Oslers research. It's available on the site I linked. Also try to find other "serious" research and do some yourself. IMHO objective research is only way to "profitability".
  • #43
  • Aug 8, 2010 5:44am Aug 8, 2010 5:44am
Quoting scott89
I actually prefer to concentrate on my life for now, I'm 21 and studying to enter at a medical school, and my dream was and will always be to become a doctor, I'm studying for it and I'm sure I'll realize it.
Forex to me is not a way to become rich, my intent was initially to pay for my medical school, but I guess it won't work, but I'm going on with it anyway, cause I really want to become a good trader as much as i want to become a good doctor.

Scott89
Don't waste another 2 years or even another 2 weeks. Forex won't pay for your medical school. don't waste precious time studying 2 things when 1 is hard enough. You will not make it to medical school if you feed your urge to do well in forex. Instead get a part-time job. it will be guaranteed money and you will meet people, which will stand you in good stead later in life. leave forex to those who are addicted and to the very few who has enough accounts to bust before knowing how to trade profitably.
  • #44
  • Aug 8, 2010 6:03am Aug 8, 2010 6:03am
Quoting Scotty B
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”

- Calvin Coolidge
I haven't heard that sentence in many years. Well said.
Measure twice, cut once
  • #45
  • Aug 8, 2010 6:05am Aug 8, 2010 6:05am
Quoting mikkom
What I meant is Oslers research. It's available on the site I linked. Also try to find other "serious" research and do some yourself. IMHO objective research is only way to "profitability".
Finally someone with some sense.
  • #46
  • Aug 8, 2010 6:16am Aug 8, 2010 6:16am
Quoting aediaz1
I haven't heard that sentence in many years. Well said.
Yes Sir. It goes along quite well with your signature. Most people just don't like work though, they'd rather spend their time complaining, overeating, TV watching, and the like.

Everything one needs to know to become a profitable trader is just sitting out there waiting to be found- most of it is free, and it's found through studying, boring boring dreadful studying. When I got serious about it, it took me a little over a year. The problem is that it took me a long time to get serious, I got distracted by silly things like fibs. Sweet irony, why do we call them fibs?
  • #47
  • Aug 8, 2010 7:04am Aug 8, 2010 7:04am
Quoting mikkom
If you are really serious about FX, I would recommend osler

http://people.brandeis.edu/~cosler/
Now thats research! Thanks for sharing.
Measure twice, cut once
  • #48
  • Aug 8, 2010 7:13am Aug 8, 2010 7:13am
Quoting Scotty B
Yes Sir. It goes along quite well with your signature. Most people just don't like work though, they'd rather spend their time complaining, overeating, TV watching, and the like.

Everything one needs to know to become a profitable trader is just sitting out there waiting to be found- most of it is free, and it's found through studying, boring boring dreadful studying. When I got serious about it, it took me a little over a year. The problem is that it took me a long time to get serious, I got distracted by silly things like fibs. Sweet...
The majority of people are hopeless when it comes to success, something that will never change

I remember you being a fibo, what happened ?
Measure twice, cut once
  • #49
  • Aug 8, 2010 7:15am Aug 8, 2010 7:15am
Quoting scott89
Yeah, I am.
Not that you would care about it.

It's been a couple of years now for me on Forex, not that 2 years is much, actually i know it's nothing, but I'm afraid that I won't get anywhere from here.
I am at the second step of those "famous 5 steps" quoted somewhere in the forum. I know that... I don't know.

To tell the truth, this tool actually gave me a big hand:
I can't remember how it was called, I just call it "Strenght meter", I programmed the one I use, but I got the idea from a link somewhere here on forex factory and i think the...

Good crossroad for you here...

1. Quit if you don't know anything else you can do to improve...
2. Learn from the best people as you trade with them? collective2.com or something similar...
  • #50
  • Aug 8, 2010 9:46am Aug 8, 2010 9:46am
Quoting aediaz1
The majority of people are hopeless when it comes to success, something that will never change

I remember you being a fibo, what happened ?
Yeah, and it's really too bad. I say anyone with a brain and a will is capable of anything.

I left the fibs in the dust because I saw the futility in them. They hindered me from learning the true mechanism(s) that moves price. They were a grand distraction. The funny thing about them though was that they were very convincing distractions, especially the "higher level" form fit fibs.

As I've learned about dealing strategies and microstructure in general, I've seen some merit in some of the things you can glean from a fib or from elliot wave type studies but not in the way they are traditionally presented. The truth is that you simply don't have enough information when just looking at price. I know I know, many will disagree with me on this, but I like the type of entries where the market immediately moves in my favor, and there is no way I could do that with a high win rate with out lots more supporting information. Also, if price does move against me, I am out right away because I understand at that point the trade will not work. No sense in playing with X pip stops. Either the trade makes 100% sense, or it's wrong, there is no middle ground for me.

I have to say though, If a dummy like me can figure it out, anyone can do it. I did not particularly enjoy all the studies, I often times wondered why I was wasting so much of my time, but then one day things just started to click and they continue to do so.

I probably over-answered your question, but I tend to do that now and then.

Thanks for staying positive my friend.
  • #51
  • Edited Aug 9, 2010 1:43am Aug 8, 2010 10:35am | Edited Aug 9, 2010 1:43am
Here is something I put together for anyone who is serious about actually learning about trading and the FX market in particular. All thanks and credit to Carol Osler. This is based off of one of the courses she teaches. Conveniently for us, the only physical textbook for the course is the Harris book, Trading and Exchanges. Anyone of you can in essence audit this course for free on your own time. A semester is typically in the range of 4-6 months. Commit yourselves to studying and you be headed in the right direction.

Just follow the directions in the course syllabus and direct your studies to the references and reading Osler suggests. I don't know if I have all the referance papers, but I think I have most of them. If one of them isn't here, ask your friend Google.

Enjoy
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Trading-Exchanges_Syllabus_Fall-08.pdf   33 KB | 801 downloads
  • #52
  • Aug 8, 2010 1:57pm Aug 8, 2010 1:57pm
.......or become a physicist and discover cool and useful things


Quoting The Fool
Everybody is dishing up advice so I might as well pile on.

If you (or anyone else) are still not making money trading after 2 years of dedicated effort, then I would say: quit.

Life is short. And many of the things that are really worthwhile take a long time to learn. If you're going to be a failure at trading then it is not too soon to realize that and to get on to something else. If you are not already dedicated to another profession or craft then you might think about exploring some of those. Take a nice long look at yourself and ask, "What...
Annoying Precision
  • #53
  • Aug 9, 2010 5:46am Aug 9, 2010 5:46am
Quoting Scotty B
Yeah, and it's really too bad. I say anyone with a brain and a will is capable of anything.

I left the fibs in the dust because I saw the futility in them. They hindered me from learning the true mechanism(s) that moves price. They were a grand distraction. The funny thing about them though was that they were very convincing distractions, especially the "higher level" form fit fibs.

As I've learned about dealing strategies and microstructure in general, I've seen some merit in some of the things you can glean from a fib or from elliot wave...
I'm glad on your behalf then. Many give up when they understand how useless fibs are, spending a decade and 20k$ on 'em. You're clearly on the right path! I saw a probability-distribution on how much the success-rate decreased on each bar after a signal is given if its not moving in your favor. I'll see if I can find that table for you.

My neighbor worked as prop trader in London and told me about the best trader there from India who had very little patience with bad trades (this is copied from a dialog between me and him, talking about an Australian friend of him who made it big-time):

"He was beaten last year by an Indian, that I really appreciate. Same basic chart, same reading of the price action. He made a 1 000 000$ trade last year when the Fed announce the bail out of Fanny Mae- Freddy Mac – AIG. He was trading the S&P 500 with 500 lots! 90-10% cut as well. His trading was more timing still.
He trigger a trade, put his stop loss target. Leave his desk for 3min30sec and come back. If his target/stop is not reached, he get out of his position! Crazy still, nobody knows what was his signal. But the big advantage of this trading style, is that there is no human feeling in his trading plan!!! And obviously it is a successful one."

Many successful traders I've worked with and known through internet rarely stays long in a position thats not moving in their favor.

Ordered "Trading and Exchanges: Market Microstructure for Practitioners", looks like a really good book :=)
Measure twice, cut once
  • #54
  • Aug 9, 2010 7:29am Aug 9, 2010 7:29am
Quoting aediaz1
I'm glad on your behalf then. Many give up when they understand how useless fibs are, spending a decade and 20k$ on 'em. You're clearly on the right path! I saw a probability-distribution on how much the success-rate decreased on each bar after a signal is given if its not moving in your favor. I'll see if I can find that table for you.

My neighbor worked as prop trader in London and told me about the best trader there from India who had very little patience with bad trades (this is copied from a dialog between me and him, talking about an Australian...
Yeah, fibs work sometimes, but it has more to do with luck I'm afraid than anything else. The idea of trading as a small guy has everything to do with watching the big guys and following them. One of the papers mentioned in the Osler syllabus talks about the importance of TA within the interbank community, but TA is much more useful to those guys, useful in the sense that they can choose to MAKE a level significant. I don't know what the long term stats look like when trading S/R (BRV Style for example) while hoping for a market response, but there is a big difference in the role TA plays when operating in a real market as a sizable player.

Yeah, you'll be glad you got the Harris book. It has everything you need to build a strong knowledge base on for trading.

I like your story about that Indian trader, pretty cool stuff.
  • #55
  • Aug 9, 2010 1:36pm Aug 9, 2010 1:36pm
Quoting aediaz1
I saw a probability-distribution on how much the success-rate decreased on each bar after a signal is given if its not moving in your favor. I'll see if I can find that table for you.
Very interested in this...
I would love to see it if you can find it.
Thanks in advance.
  • #56
  • Aug 9, 2010 1:38pm Aug 9, 2010 1:38pm
Hmm there's a little confusion in all these advises and suggestions, but I'll try to follow them 1 by 1, trying to find what helps me and what doesn't.
Thank you all for everything, but other suggestions are always welcomed.
For now, I'll give a deeper look to Carol Osler reasearches. Thanks Scotty B and others for that.

Scott89
  • #57
  • Aug 10, 2010 2:07am Aug 10, 2010 2:07am
this may seem a little odd to most but have you tried ronald raygun's coin toss exercise? it will take a couple of months and I'm still at it but it perfects your exits.

Based on perfecting his exits RR traded $200 to $250k, (by now I'm dead sure he's made millions and all this from a start of just $200) he does use EA's but so do many other people in fact they use the same EA's and none of them have had anywhere near such phenomenal results.

J16 is excellent, no question about that but depending on the size of your a/c it could take you a long time to make any meaningful money, sure it can be done but will you have the patience and will power if you have a 100 euro a/c?

either begin saving up and practicing J16 or begin tossing coins and go the RR way.
  • #58
  • Aug 10, 2010 5:15am Aug 10, 2010 5:15am
Quoting Scotty B
Yeah, fibs work sometimes, but it has more to do with luck I'm afraid than anything else. The idea of trading as a small guy has everything to do with watching the big guys and following them. One of the papers mentioned in the Osler syllabus talks about the importance of TA within the interbank community, but TA is much more useful to those guys, useful in the sense that they can choose to MAKE a level significant. I don't know what the long term stats look like when trading S/R (BRV Style for example) while hoping for a market response, but there...
Big fan of success-stories myself I know he got plenty of them, I might share some here.
Measure twice, cut once
  • #59
  • Aug 10, 2010 5:15am Aug 10, 2010 5:15am
Quoting Intu
Very interested in this...
I would love to see it if you can find it.
Thanks in advance.
I'll dig into my archives to see if I can find it
Measure twice, cut once
  • #60
  • Edited 6:19am Aug 10, 2010 5:50am | Edited 6:19am
Quoting aediaz1
Big fan of success-stories myself I know he got plenty of them, I might share some here.
Yeah, they are in essense what kept me going. I knew that there must be some way to trade that was not only profitable but made sense to. I don't know if the guys I look up to around here are truly profitable themselves, but they kept me motivated to, just because I beleived someone knew what was going on.

I am of course a big fan of Schwager and his Market Wizard books. I have actually befriended one of the traders he interviewed in his books in the last year. He doesn't really talk a lot about the trading days, he's retired now, but I do still glean insights just from his personality and the way he deals with life in general.

Even though trading is always changing and evolving in it's venue, trading among human beings will never change.

Here is a good real life example situation to 'provoke the trader within you.' Say you have a painting in your possession that's been in your family for a couple generations. You really don't even think it's that beautiful, but it's up on the wall for family history sake. If the house burned down and you lost it, you'd be bummed, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Say then that times get tough, you loose your job and you’re having a heck of a time finding another one.

One day a red Ferrari pulls up and a gentleman comes to your door. He says he was in the neighborhood and happened to notice that beautiful painting you have hanging in your living room. He tells you he’s not an art buff or anything, but he just really likes that painting. He says I know it’s crazy of me, but I’d prefer not to leave here without that painting, I’ll give you a thousand dollars for it.

Now, what do you do and why? Learning to answer this type of question will get your mind in the right place in regards to becoming a trader.
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