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  • #1,321
  • Jul 14, 2010 4:46pm Jul 14, 2010 4:46pm
Hello HD

Could you kindly give us some definition of the bars/candles that you use to use as KRB, WRB, NR7, NR4, etc, etc, and the way that you incorporate them to your trading style, I know that it is not VSA, but I see that you mixed very well with VSA rules.

Also, if you indi your BPL is for MT4, could you attach it?

Thank you in advance!


Quote
3. KRB(type2). Not technically VSA. This is an Reversal Candle from a pure price action standpoint. The market opens higher than the previous close but makes a lower low than the previous candle. However, it closes higher than the previous close and higher than its own open. Such price action can only represent strength. Had the volume been less than the previous two, we would be sure this is a "hidden Test". As such it is still a hidden test, but the volume is decreasing and not less than the previous two. Advanced candle recognition here, so...
  • #1,322
  • Jul 14, 2010 5:09pm Jul 14, 2010 5:09pm
would love to help test this. but i'm getting all C's on every pair & every TF. ?
  • #1,323
  • Jul 14, 2010 8:28pm Jul 14, 2010 8:28pm
hi intel,sir, thanks for your insights, i was re-reading your posts, and i hope you will comment on this trade for me, whether im actually doing the TFs thingy right...thank you

This was a trade i made on EU

On daily, hulls green, uptrend, but i see a temporary down for today because of the high volume narrow bar.

having learnt from you to draw s/r from daily,4hrly,1hrly TFs, i moved down to 1hr TF to check out the background - weakness is seen, Hulls is still green on 1hr upon my entry in 15min TF

with a bias for short, i went into the 15min TF: a few upcandles to the left indicating weakness followed by a down trend showing a RUT before it began to range again. I did not pay much attention to the background here because on the 1hr, i know im looking for a short entry (even more confused now if im doing it the right way)

on the 15min chart, i actually entered on the 3rd last bar but i see a ND bar and a down bar which passes a Support line i drew and closes below this ND bar 2 bars later (the circled part), hulls is red on 15min so i thought its gd to short, 20pip SL and TP at 1.2703, entry at 1.2724.

dunno hows it going to turn out, it actually went in my favour before it retraced/reversed (not sure which one)

I wondering if i should hold till it hits my target or my SL

or should i have exited when one of the bars became stopping volume bar?

or should i never have entered short in the 1st place because daily is uptrend?

still learning, still confused, but i know you can help me, please help me, sir

Quoting Intel
Well Bethal my friend, this is a fairly simple one...........it's up to you!

If a particular TF has a good short setup and the appropriate entry occurs, then enter a short. Its that simple.

The problem arises when you try to decide when to exit. As a general rule of thumb, if the shorter TF is offering a trade in the same direction as the larger TFs, you will PROBABLY be in the trade for longer. If the shorter TF is offering a trade in the opposite direction to the larger TFs, you will PROBABLY be in for a shorter period of time because you...
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: daily.jpg Size: 150 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 1hr.jpg Size: 157 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 15min.jpg Size: 150 KB
  • #1,324
  • Jul 14, 2010 9:25pm Jul 14, 2010 9:25pm
dear HG, intel, and all senior traders, if you all noticed my posts, most of the time im screwed by the TF and confused big time over the situation. Im here to thank you for this post, because i think im getting it though im not sure, i need assurance~~~~~, please

malcolm used to say tt he follows the daily trend and intel mentioned trading what we see, if its a valid setup, go ahead.

correct me if im wrong, i hope to learn more and am learning much from each of you each day.

this is my perspective now: that if daily is in uptrend (determined by me or by hulls) , I will go long if i see a buy setup in hrly,30min or 15min or whatever smaller TFs. Is this correct?

Previously, i learnt that 2 TF is not enough so i got all confused by marrying all the TFs tog, on top of that, but according to Intel, he trades what he sees, and by marrying this concept with malc's never go against the daily trend/hulls signals, i get my current perspective, which is mentioned as above.

Am i on the right track? please enlighten me.

cheers,
Bethel

Quoting HiddenGap
Thanks for all the replies to my query. I was hoping for more, but maybe some of you knew where I was going and decided not to spoil my thunder.

Unfortunately the market was up yesterday which may take some of the shine off my answer.

To answer the question, let's first start by taking a look at the chart on the left. This is a 5 minute Euro chart.

We can see the best place to get long is marked in black. Why is this the best place to get long?

1. Strength in the background.
a. Ultra Wide Spread down candle on climatic volume closing off...
  • #1,325
  • Jul 14, 2010 9:44pm Jul 14, 2010 9:44pm
Quoting scotie pipen
question for hidden gap or intel located on the chart.
No Buying pressure would seem to indicate that the SM is not interested in higher prices. That Up thrust becomes a good place to get short for some. Which is one reason that I think that the SM actually wanted price to rise so they could suck in th herd before swamping the market with more supply.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #1,326
  • Jul 14, 2010 10:03pm Jul 14, 2010 10:03pm
Quoting 3mmm
Hello HD

Could you kindly give us some definition of the bars/candles that you use to use as KRB, WRB, NR7, NR4, etc, etc, and the way that you incorporate them to your trading style, I know that it is not VSA, but I see that you mixed very well with VSA rules.

Also, if you indi your BPL is for MT4, could you attach it?

Thank you in advance!
NR7: Narrow Range 7 bar- this bar has the narrowest range of the last 7 bars.

NR4: Narrow Range 4 bar-this bar has the narrowest range of the last 4 bars.

These deal with volatility and are the work of Tony Crable I believe. From a VSA point of view, some of the best No Demands, Tests, No Supply bars will also be NR7s or NR4s. This makes sense as you would have low volume and low volatility on the same bar. Volatility ebbs and flows. Periods of low volatility are followed by periods of high volatility. And vice versa.

WRB: Another measure of volatility. Unlike NR7 and NR4, however, Wide Range Body deals with the absolute distance from the close to the open of a bar. Any number can be used, but the minimum number is recommended to be 4. Thus a WRB is a bar with the largest body (C-O) in the last 4 bars.

KRB: Key Reversal Bar. There are two main types I look at. The first one will be a selling bar. That is, it will make a lower low and not a higher high than the previous bar/candle. The open will be lower than the previous close but its close will be higher than both its own open and the previous close.

The second type will also be a selling bar. It will open higher than the previous close, but trade lower and then come all the way back to close higher than its own close and the close of the previous candle/bar.

These type of bars/candles make for good hidden tests when the volume is low and the close is near the high.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #1,327
  • Edited 10:40pm Jul 14, 2010 10:36pm | Edited 10:40pm
Thank you very much for your promt response!

Quoting HiddenGap
NR7: Narrow Range 7 bar- this bar has the narrowest range of the last 7 bars.

NR4: Narrow Range 4 bar-this bar has the narrowest range of the last 4 bars.

These deal with volatility and are the work of Tony Crable I believe. From a VSA point of view, some of the best No Demands, Tests, No Supply bars will also be NR7s or NR4s. This makes sense as you would have low volume and low volatility on the same bar. Volatility ebbs and flows. Periods of low volatility are followed by periods of high volatility. And vice versa.





KRB: Key Reversal...

So, the difference in these two KRB are in their opening?
These KRB work well eather in the soport and resistence areas?

Thank you !

EDIT:
Let me know if I'm right with these comments:
Narrrow range = low volatility
Wide range = high volatility
high volatility with low volume = No buying/selling presure
Low volatility with high volume= buyers/seller enter in the markert (squats or doji)
  • #1,328
  • Jul 14, 2010 11:17pm Jul 14, 2010 11:17pm
Hi, I have a question. When prices break through an area where were previous distribution, do they absorve all the supply or they can retrace back and continue to absorve?

In this chart there are some narrow spread up bars with volume above average which normalli I'd consider weakness, but due to the supply area they're on can it be considered weakness?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: supplyarea.jpg Size: 511 KB
  • #1,329
  • Jul 14, 2010 11:36pm Jul 14, 2010 11:36pm
You should use it along with BetterVolume 1.4

Quoting djarum11
would love to help test this. but i'm getting all C's on every pair & every TF. ?
  • #1,330
  • Jul 15, 2010 12:25am Jul 15, 2010 12:25am
Thanks very much for your analysis - very informative as always. I think there's a mistake in this sentence though, because as it stands it doesn't make sense.

"The second type will also be a selling bar. It will open higher than the previous close, but trade lower and then come all the way back to close higher than its own close and the close of the previous candle/bar."

Do you mean it should close higher than its own OPEN?
  • #1,331
  • Jul 15, 2010 2:13am Jul 15, 2010 2:13am
Quoting Jasus
Hi, I have a question. When prices break through an area where were previous distribution, do they absorve all the supply or they can retrace back and continue to absorve?

In this chart there are some narrow spread up bars with volume above average which normalli I'd consider weakness, but due to the supply area they're on can it be considered weakness?
is it distribution area or accumulation area ? i think it is accumulation area, and generally, price is pulled down below acc area before rally ...

regarding your first question, i ve no idea, but in theory and practice it is supposed as you said.
second one also a nice, and i also would like to know the answer.
cheers.

cheers..
  • #1,332
  • Jul 15, 2010 2:16am Jul 15, 2010 2:16am
i ve read from hidden gap's posts.

i just wanna remind..

bullish volume increase with up bars, and not increase on down bars..

bearish is the opposite to bulls..

cheers..
  • #1,333
  • Jul 15, 2010 2:30am Jul 15, 2010 2:30am
Quoting HiddenGap
Squat is the general term that Bill Williams came up with to define those bars/candles that have a decreasing range and increasing volume.

I tend to us Up Squat and Down Squat respectively. Up means it closed higher than the previous candle/bar and Down means it closed lower than the previous candle/bar. As you know, when weakness appears, it appears on Up candles/bars. And when strength appears, it appears on down candles/bars. So the up/down also refers to weakness and strength respectively.

Thanks for clearing that up. I will have to agree with your terminologies on that as it makes logical sense to refer to them as up & down squats.
  • #1,334
  • Jul 15, 2010 2:43am Jul 15, 2010 2:43am
as usual, advice from intel teaches me much, thanks a million! appreciate your time spent helping a noob like me. =)

Cheers,
Bethel


Quoting Intel
If I see a valid setup in ANY direction, I will take it. If I am trading against the larger TF trend, my expectations might be more modest than if I was trading with the larger TF.

I am unsure at the moment, whether this is adviseable for everyone because most experienced traders will all give the same advice on this subject......DON'T TRADE AGAINST THE TREND.

Do what works for you.
  • #1,335
  • Jul 15, 2010 3:16am Jul 15, 2010 3:16am
as usual, i cant see nothing clearly..

but it seems to me a bit weakness... is there any good sign of it ?

higher lowers with higher volumes... actually it is a kind of bullish volume i think..

and it jumped 20 pips in 2 minutes

cheers...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 15m.gu.jpg Size: 183 KB
  • #1,336
  • Edited 5:50am Jul 15, 2010 3:53am | Edited 5:50am
Quoting Bethel
hi intel,sir, thanks for your insights, i was re-reading your posts, and i hope you will comment on this trade for me, whether im actually doing the TFs thingy right...thank you

This was a trade i made on EU

On daily, hulls green, uptrend, but i see a temporary down for today because of the high volume narrow bar.

having learnt from you to draw s/r from daily,4hrly,1hrly TFs, i moved down to 1hr TF to check out the background - weakness is seen, Hulls is still green on 1hr upon my entry in 15min TF

with a bias for short, i went into the...

I dont have any charting software with me at the moment so I'll try and answer using your charts.

Starting with the H1 chart

You have a sign of weakness on that last very wide spread up bar closing well off the high with the next bar down.

It sends the price into a range for a while but not downwards.

Then we get a wide spread down bar closing near the high on ultra high volume with the next bar up on high volume, SO. There is massive demand here.

Next we get a very wide spread up bar closing in the middle on very high volume, showing that there is some weakness around. But, we cannot forget the previous strength cos it was so big. This is our first indication that we might retrace and not reverse.

If we then move to the M15 chart we can see a 2 bar reversal with the down bar on higher volume than the up bar, this is a good sign for short.

Then we get 2 up bars on decreasing volume, the second can be judged a ND. An entry short could be the break of the low of this ND. But, bare in mind the strength we have seen in the background, care should be taken with this trade.

I would probably have exited 11 bars after the ND. At the close of the up bar at about 1.2734. It is an up bar on increased volume.

Mind you I would have missed the rest of the down move so hey.....take what you can

If you're having trouble with the multui timefram approach, try using just 1 TF for now until you become more confident. There's nothing wrong with that.

EDIT :- Also if you look at H1 since the range end, we have an up move followed by a retrace(test) on high volume then anothe retrace on still high but decreased volume. We might get another retrace till the volume has dried up then the up move signaled by the ultra high volume bar.
  • #1,337
  • Jul 15, 2010 4:51am Jul 15, 2010 4:51am
Hi HG

Quoting HiddenGap
NR7: Narrow Range 7 bar- this bar has the narrowest range of the last 7 bars.

NR4: Narrow Range 4 bar-this bar has the narrowest range of the last 4 bars.

These deal with volatility and are the work of Tony Crable I believe. From a VSA point of view, some of the best No Demands, Tests, No Supply bars will also be NR7s or NR4s. This makes sense as you would have low volume and low volatility on the same bar. Volatility ebbs and flows. Periods of low volatility are followed by periods of high volatility. And vice versa.

WRB: Another measure...
I Am confuse about KRB

HG said

KRB: Key Reversal Bar. There are two main types I look at. The first one will be a selling bar. That is, it will make a lower low and not a higher high than the previous bar/candle. The open will be lower than the previous close but its close will be higher than both its own open and the previous close.

The second type will also be a selling bar. It will open higher than the previous close, but trade lower and then come all the way back to close higher than its own close and the close of the previous candle/bar.

please check my attachment in first chart there may be KRB selling bar it is a kind of Reversal upthrust. and is key reversal correct

in second chart do you think KRB represent a selling bar. it is kind of reversal up thrust while volume is high on both KBR candels in both charts.
or it represent a test and then up move in one bar. (price went down first and then came back with high volume)
It is very comfusing for me.

Regards.
Wajid
Attached Image
  • #1,338
  • Jul 15, 2010 5:57am Jul 15, 2010 5:57am
EUR/USD
im thnking of going short somewhere between 1.29 to 1.31.. did anyone spot a series of accumulation for EURUSD or issit just me...
  • #1,339
  • Jul 15, 2010 6:22am Jul 15, 2010 6:22am
Quoting wajid
Hi HG



I Am confuse about KRB

HG said

KRB: Key Reversal Bar. There are two main types I look at. The first one will be a selling bar. That is, it will make a lower low and not a higher high than the previous bar/candle. The open will be lower than the previous close but its close will be higher than both its own open and the previous close.

The second type will also be a selling bar. It will open higher than the previous close, but trade lower and then come all the way back to close higher than its own close and the close of the previous...
Sorry about that. I ment to mention that the opposite is true as well. So both are KRB bars one is just a downside reversal and the other an upside reversal.

For the downside, it would be a buying bar where the open is higher than the close pf the previous candle and makes a higher high, but its close is lower than previous close and lower than its own open.

Type 2 would open Lower than the open of the previous candle but make a higher high and then close lower than both its own open and the previous close.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #1,340
  • Jul 15, 2010 6:32am Jul 15, 2010 6:32am
thanks intel for the insights, seems really hard to determine the background, its like determining that strength is much greater than weakness here is really hard (to me) nearer to the right of the chart, seems to me that its more of weakness, thats why i shorted there n then.

by the way, if trend is down but hulls is green on higher tf, will you still short on the lower tf?

seems like this trade i took is a real high level trade tt only u guy can pull off.

cheers,
Bethel


Quoting Intel
I dont have any charting software with me at the moment so I'll try and answer using your charts.

Starting with the H1 chart

You have a sign of weakness on that last very wide spread up bar closing well off the high with the next bar down.

It sends the price into a range for a while but not downwards.

Then we get a wide spread down bar closing near the high on ultra high volume with the next bar up on high volume, SO. There is massive demand here.

Next we get a very wide spread up bar closing in the middle on very high volume, showing...
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