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vsa with Malcolm

  • #621
  • Jun 27, 2010 4:37am Jun 27, 2010 4:37am
Quoting polomine
Please take a look to the attached gbp/usd H4 chart. It's very interesting.
Hi Polo,

You are touching on Wide Range Body Analysis (WRB). It is very interesting and some thing which I use to a lesser degree.

If you google WRB you wont find a great deal cos you have to pay for the info, there's only 1 place that you can find out much and thats the guy who invented it.

However, you're in luck cos guess who is an avid user of WRB............our very own HG!!

He may not want to give away something which he has paid for himself (and I don't blame him) but, if you analyse his posts you can SEE the basics of WRB.

Check out his posts in the HG pdf.
  • #622
  • Edited 6:43am Jun 27, 2010 5:47am | Edited 6:43am
Thanks a lot Intel and HG.

VSA with WRB seems to work deadly accurate.

Now should We look for Stopping Volume or RUT then No Supply/Low volume test to enter long?
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  • #623
  • Jun 27, 2010 6:25am Jun 27, 2010 6:25am
Quoting kamise
Thanks a lot Intel and HG.

VSA with WRB seems to work deadly accurate.

Now should We look for Stopping Volume or RUT then No Supply/Low volume test to enter long?

Assuming that the last bar has finished, it looks like we have strength in the market with that buying frenzie. Its come back down to that price level but the volume has dried up, suggesting that its ready to go up.

What I'm not sure about however is how it reacts at close on friday/open on sunday. This could account for the volumes which means we may not see a rise at all.

If it does go up, it may well gap up so beware.
  • #624
  • Jun 27, 2010 12:04pm Jun 27, 2010 12:04pm
Mel

I have not really thought of what i look for as I open the charts but lets try and break down some ways and means that might help you

In vsa for trends to change there are typically three major set ups that one could look for.

for uptrend ending

1) No demand bar .
2) UPthrust with very high volume
3) Buying climax ..very wide spread bar on high volume.

for down trend ending:
1) climatic action , a down bar on ultra high volume closing on lows
2) shake outs
3) test

when i come to my chart I am coming due to the fact that the hulls moving average has sent an alert to my iphone ( I have charts sent to 15 min time frames).

so I guess the things I may be considering in the trade below :
1) hulls moving average alerted me that trend has changed to up
2) was there vsa sign of strength in back ground ? in this case yes there was.
3) are we near a major support level. In this case 1.4880 was and I could place stop just below it
4) what is my risk reward ratio ? In this case r1 1.4880 , r2 at 1.4954 , entry 1,4890 , stop 40 pip , reward 60 pip at r2 , 1:1.5 with strong set up , ok


Now for where to place stops

I have attached an mt4 chart with a chandelier stop on it. The atr period is 21 and will account for volatility of the last 21 periods. This will help those that wonder where to put their initial stops.

Even though we saw weakness at 1.4960 area as expected we see that by trailing a stop we did manage to squeeze an extra 20 pip using chandeilier stops. i would likely have closed this trade at 1,4950 area once we supply hitting market towards end of us session .

In regards to the chandelier stops for those that like a tighter stop , once trade is underway set the atr multiplier to 2

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Quoting @mel
Hi Malcomb,

Since I created this account on FF , I have seen a lot of posts from you. I came across this thread and became intrested in vsa. I red the book ''Master the market'' like you suggested and I always look at the charts you post to try to understand how to implement vsa into my trading. I feel like vsa is essential to make trading decisions. However, I am invended by all the information I red and I don't know where to start from now. There is so much info to take into consideration...
I would like to know (if you don't mind) what you...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #625
  • Jun 27, 2010 12:24pm Jun 27, 2010 12:24pm
Quoting kamise
Thanks a lot Intel and HG.

VSA with WRB seems to work deadly accurate.

Now should We look for Stopping Volume or RUT then No Supply/Low volume test to enter long?

good set up

89 also happens to be very strong support on daily. ...

4 hour and 60 min charts below. i may take long at open with tp 90.4 , stop 40 pip

why 90.4 .. well this is where my little knowledge of waves 9 not calling it ew as i do not believe in that ) comes into play. On daily we have complete wave 3 which stopped at 161.8 of wave 1 and 2 , retrace of wave 3 to 50 % takes us to 90.5 or 61.8 at 90.86 , then we should see wave 5 down into 87.26.

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Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #626
  • Jun 27, 2010 12:29pm Jun 27, 2010 12:29pm
From my expierence, if i see what i see - then price could go more higher. If its not going to go higher then Your predictions - then maybe some more shake out at lows and then up above previus high. If not so - then ..then just trade as allways - wait and trade lol

EDIT:
However, do not listen to me serrius, i dont like to give predictions, because then i need to post all time as everything is changing , but i am too lazy for that


Just wanted to write something here


best,
tom



Quoting malcolmb14
good set up

89 also happens to be very strong support on daily. ...

4 hour and 60 min charts below. i may take long at open with tp 90.4 , stop 40 pip

why 90.4 .. well this is where my little knowledge of waves 9 not calling it ew as i do not believe in that ) comes into play. On daily we have complete wave 3 which stopped at 161.8 of wave 1 and 2 , retrace of wave 3 to 50 % takes us to 90.5 or 61.8 at 90.86 , then we should see wave 5 down into 87.26.

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  • #627
  • Jun 27, 2010 12:34pm Jun 27, 2010 12:34pm
Quoting malcolmb14
Mel


In vsa for trends to change there are typically three major set ups that one could look for.

for uptrend ending

1) No demand bar .
2) UPthrust with very high volume
3) Buying climax ..very wide spread bar on high volume.

for down trend ending:
1) climatic action , a down bar on ultra high volume closing on lows
2) shake outs
3) test
Absolutely spot on. I would add "end of a rising Market" and "bag holding" repectively. Both are rare, but incredibly powerfull.

Quoting malcolmb14
Mel
when i come to my chart I am coming due to the fact that the hulls moving average has sent an alert to my iphone ( I have charts sent to 15 min time frames).

so I guess the things I may be considering in the trade below :
1) hulls moving average alerted me that trend has changed to up
2) was there vsa sign of strength in back ground ? in this case yes there was.
3) are we near a major support level. In this case 1.4880 was and I could place stop just below it
4) what is my risk reward ratio ? In this case r1 1.4880 , r2 at 1.4954 , entry...
Brilliant.

This is not a disagreement, but I would say that as important as a change in the hulls may be, one needs to ask why did the hulls change in the first place? In other words, what vsa factors (2) can be seen on the chart leading to the change in the hulls. Which may actually be harder to program an alert around and hence why you use the change in the hulls. Just want to make clear something for the newbies (and detractors) that Mal knows all too well; It's not the hulls moving price. It's the professional money moving price then price moving the hulls.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #628
  • Jun 27, 2010 12:36pm Jun 27, 2010 12:36pm
looks like buyers coming in on low spread high vol day

if this pays out matches uj trade

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Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #629
  • Jun 27, 2010 12:44pm Jun 27, 2010 12:44pm
yes I excluded end of rising market as they are not that common , but very powerful when you see them

You are right the hulls is just a way to determine trend has changed and is very much like the trend diamonds in tradeguider (for those who have taken time to watch the tg videos in youtube .. ignore the sales pitch if you can they do contain some good stuff ) , once an alert is signaled we have to look to left of chart for vsa strength or weakness,

I am working on getting email alerts for better volume indie in esignal . This may or may not help . I just find sitting and watching charts for hours is so time consuming and takes over my life , when summer time should be a time for enjoyment .

I want to be able to have more freedom , even a small laptop on the go with an iphone for tethering seems to work well.

BTW thanks for posting in here ... looking forward to reading your future posts.

I will also post better vol with alerts once I get it done.



Quoting HiddenGap
Absolutely spot on. I would add "end of a rising Market" and "bag holding" repectively. Both are rare, but incredibly powerfull.



Brilliant.

This is not a disagreement, but I would say that as important as a change in the hulls may be, one needs to ask why did the hulls change in the first place? In other words, what vsa factors (2) can be seen on the chart leading to the change in the hulls. Which may actually be harder to program an alert around and hence why you use the change in the hulls. Just want to make clear something for...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #630
  • Jun 27, 2010 1:00pm Jun 27, 2010 1:00pm
Quoting malcolmb14

I am working on getting email alerts for better volume indie in esignal . This may or may not help . I just find sitting and watching charts for hours is so time consuming and takes over my life , when summer time should be a time for enjoyment .

I want to be able to have more freedom , even a small laptop on the go with an iphone for tethering seems to work well. ...
LOL.

It is kind of funny how many people enter this business with the desire of freedom only to find themselves enslaved to the screen. Yet again you prove yourself to be the trader’s trader .
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #631
  • Jun 27, 2010 1:06pm Jun 27, 2010 1:06pm
My time will come when i will have also some signal on my phone and only then i will look in chart..
But, not sure when this will come for me, perhaps after many years lol

B,
Tom

Quoting HiddenGap
LOL.

It is kind of funny how many people enter this business with the desire of freedom only to find themselves enslaved to the screen. Yet again you prove yourself to be the trader’s trader .
  • #632
  • Jun 27, 2010 1:09pm Jun 27, 2010 1:09pm
Quoting HiddenGap
LOL.

It is kind of funny how many people enter this business with the desire of freedom only to find themselves enslaved to the screen. Yet again you prove yourself to be the trader’s trader .
So many I speak to, trying to get in this business get hooked to possibilities. They spend hour and hours hoping for a trade that makes them $$$ , they forget everyone and everything in their lives , hooked instead on the glowing screen and moving charts.

FX , if you allow it , due to being a 24 hour market can be worse than a drug addiction .. I should know look how many posts i have done !!! lol

How to overcome this for newbies ....

1) use some form of alerts to sent to a mobile phone, alerting you of possible trading opportunities.
2) If this is not possible and you still find yourself worried about the market allocate a time when markets are moving ( London open or London /us overlap ) , trade for a 2 to 3 hour window if time allows.
3) trade on higher times frames. .... hulls works just as well on 4 hour time frames as it does on 15 min time frames
4) set a limit for the week ... say 3% on account or something like that , once you have it stop trading for week, does not sound much but 3% compounded over 5 years starting with 2 k is one big pile of money
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #633
  • Jun 27, 2010 1:12pm Jun 27, 2010 1:12pm
I can tell for sure that You have written the things which sounds understandable for everyone but to do it in real life - its just big headache for newbies

EDIT:
And newbies will understand Your wriiten commentaries ONLY after loong time, after spending a lot of time in market :}
They will understand it ONLY after they will start to be at BE or a bit profitable.. ONLY after it

Atleast, i think i am talking about 95 % of newbies.


B,
Tom

Quoting malcolmb14
So many I speak to, trying to get in this business get hooked to possibilities. They spend hour and hours hoping for a trade that makes them $$$ , they forget everyone and everything in their lives , hooked instead on the glowing screen and moving charts.

FX , if you allow it , due to being a 24 hour market can be worse than a drug addiction .. I should know look how many posts i have done !!! lol

How to overcome this for newbies ....

1) use some form of alerts to sent to a mobile phone, alerting you of possible trading opportunities.
2) If...
  • #634
  • Jun 27, 2010 2:27pm Jun 27, 2010 2:27pm
I spent a lot of time this weekend reading the majority of posts on the old VSA thread from Dr. G, HG, Malcomb, Taomql4, and Intel. I think I've had quite a few light bulb moments for sure. It's been quite enlightening to say the least.

The heart and soul of my trading is based on price action at support and resistance, which starts with the monthly chart and ends with the daily chart. I'm thinking if one can spot VSA setups at pretty clear s/r areas, you can really have that trader's edge that Dr. G was talking about.

I have to admit Malcomb that I kind of lost faith in the method and gave up for a bit. I just couldn't get any kind of consistency, but I think that was because I was:

A. Using a pretty crappy data feed (Fx Pro)
B. Getting whipsawed on the 5 minute chart left and right
C. Not paying enough attention to what was going on on higher time frames
D. Trying to conjure up VSA setups based on one freaking candle (I'm sure I was guilty of that)

You guys got me fired up and ready to give it another go. I'm just in test mode right now though. Thanks for sharing guys.
"Don't trade to trade . . . trade to win." - James16
  • #635
  • Edited 2:45pm Jun 27, 2010 2:34pm | Edited 2:45pm
Hey Flem,
I am mainly with Vol from VSA thread starting and learning Vol.

What i can aggree with You is point B:
B. Getting whipsawed on the 5 minute chart left and right
EDIT: -Just rethink, i would say i also dont agree to this point, sorry
What i dont agree with You are Your points:
A. Using a pretty crappy data feed (Fx Pro)
C. Not paying enough attention to what was going on on higher time frames
D. Trying to conjure up VSA setups based on one freaking candle (I'm sure I was guilty of that)

Why so ? Because i have expierenced with all what You have said and i am sure, this is not reason to say You burned and give up...

Only reason You failed is because You GIVE UP.

That all, i dont want to discuss anything more.. Lets dont waste our time in this discussion, just learn

Best wishes,
Tom


Quoting Flem26
I spent a lot of time this weekend reading the majority of posts on the old VSA thread from Dr. G, HG, Malcomb, Taomql4, and Intel. I think I've had quite a few light bulb moments for sure. It's been quite enlightening to say the least.

The heart and soul of my trading is based on price action at support and resistance, which starts with the monthly chart and ends with the daily chart. I'm thinking if one can spot VSA setups at pretty clear s/r areas, you can really have that trader's edge that Dr. G was talking about.

I have to admit Malcomb...
  • #636
  • Jun 27, 2010 3:36pm Jun 27, 2010 3:36pm
good to hear .. some do trade off a 5 min but if you are a pro you are entering a market with 500 million would you enter on a 5 min ?

always look at higher time frames , I typically start with 30 and then down to 15

Quoting Flem26
I spent a lot of time this weekend reading the majority of posts on the old VSA thread from Dr. G, HG, Malcomb, Taomql4, and Intel. I think I've had quite a few light bulb moments for sure. It's been quite enlightening to say the least.

The heart and soul of my trading is based on price action at support and resistance, which starts with the monthly chart and ends with the daily chart. I'm thinking if one can spot VSA setups at pretty clear s/r areas, you can really have that trader's edge that Dr. G was talking about.

I have to admit Malcomb...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #637
  • Jun 27, 2010 4:30pm Jun 27, 2010 4:30pm
Somebody sent me a message with a question and an attachment. I still haven't figured out how to add an attachment to a pm, so I am posting it here. I hope the sender doesn't mind.

To be honest distribution and accumulation are a bit hard for me as well. That's why my overall focus would be a little different.

In the chart you sent, that first area has a Shake Out and not a buying climax. Notice that the Shake Out makes a lower low than the previous bar and closes on its high with the next bar even or up. This is one of the cases where high volume on an up bar is actually strength and not weakness. Never the less the market moves sideways indicating that some selling did appear on the Shake Out. Once you recognize the Shake Out, then the No Demands are out of place. In fact the second red bar after the two bars marked No Demand is a narrow range down bar on increasing volume closing in the middle of its range. This is a strong bar. I don't know what the dotted white line means, but here you have strength right on that line. That should be a tip for you that the market is strong and not weak. That is, after all, why the line is there in the first place.

Let's back up for a second. I have recently had the best couple of weeks of trading in a really long time. One of the reasons has been the addition of the Dynamic Balance Point Line (based on Drummond Geometry((thanks Gavin))/Robert Kruse/Chaos). This line is similar to TG's diamonds. Now, like Gavin, I would only be looking to get long in this case when prices are above the DBPL. Therefore the low down bars PRIOR to the Shake Out offer ideal places to enter this market. SEE attached chart. So I would already be in this market and not looking for reasons to get short. If I wasn't in, I would still only be looking for ways to get in on the long side. Therefore I would not be concerned with re-accumulation or redistribution.

I believe Mal would focus on the fact that the hull (if that is indeed a hull) remains green. So he would not be looking to get short or anticipate any type of distribution at this point. Once the hull changes direction and color, then he goes back to see if there are visible VSA signs as to why the hull has changed. But I don't want to put words in his mouth.

I know this is an after the fact chart but I don't see any reason that you would want to be bearish. Since that average remains green. This is not VSA, but if you are going to use that tool learn to use it to your advantage. I suspect that any topping or bottoming phase would have that line turning green for a few bars and then red and then green again. When you see that, then you can look to the left and ask Why?

Now, whilst in the trade and above the line (in this case) any high volume up candle closing of its high and especially if the next candle is down, gets my attention. This is where supply has likely entered the market. Is it the top? Don't know don't care. I not looking to get short until the trend has changed. For me this means price is below the DBPL. And then I still need to see a No Demand-narrow range up candle on volume less than the previous two (and less than average). If the market moves sideways and forms a mushroom shape, then you can be sure that it is in a distribution phase. This is also known as build a cause. Let the market build its cause and look to enter on the result. Which would be when the down trend starts and then you see the BBs withdraw on up bars.

As far as the second shaded area goes, the story is the same. Supply does indeed enter on the bar you marked. It moves prices sideways. The fact that price moves sideways rather than down is a sign of the underlying strength. Again, your MA stays green. That has got to keep you bullish otherwise why do you color it? Based on your chart the red bar 3 bars later is a test. A signal of strength. Here again, the two low volume up bar are ignored by me as price is above the DBPL. Thus, I don't have to figure out if the market is re-accumulating or distributing at this point. My only focus need be on the fact that the test is in the right place-the trend is up and we have moved slightly down into the range of the high volume candle and found no supply (what the market is "testing" for).

... All of that just to say, I am really the wrong person to ask.
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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #638
  • Jun 27, 2010 4:33pm Jun 27, 2010 4:33pm
Quoting malcolmb14
Mel

I have not really thought of what i look for as I open the charts but lets try and break down some ways and means that might help you

In vsa for trends to change there are typically three major set ups that one could look for.

for uptrend ending

1) No demand bar .
2) UPthrust with very high volume
3) Buying climax ..very wide spread bar on high volume.

for down trend ending:
1) climatic action , a down bar on ultra high volume closing on lows
2) shake outs
3) test

when i come to my chart I am coming due to the fact that the...



Hi Malcomb,

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my questions. It makes sence to me now.

God bless you,
@mel
  • #639
  • Jun 27, 2010 4:50pm Jun 27, 2010 4:50pm
Tom says there are professionals on ALL timeframes, not just the larger ones.

We know that professionals are not all long term traders. Some scalp. Well they are certainly not going to scalp off a 15 minute chart. Regardless of size. It stands to reason that they are on the 3 min just as it stands to reason they are on the 15 min.

This is also why different professionals can be on opposite sides of the market and both be "right". Trader A can be long of a 15 minute chart and trader B on the opposite side of the trading floor can be short the same instrument on an 8 minute chart and they both can be making pips.

BTW Gavin trades the S&Ps (emini) on a 5 min and enters many currnecy trades on the 5 min in the VSA club.

But I will admit that most retail and losing traders will do themselves a favor by increasing the timeframe traded not lessening it. Which is something the late great Bruce Babcock used to say.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #640
  • Jun 27, 2010 4:53pm Jun 27, 2010 4:53pm
es for me I have found 10 min to be an amazing time frame.... shows what is really going on intraday. 5 min I kept getting whipsawed.

Quoting HiddenGap
Tom says there are professionals on ALL timeframes, not just the larger ones.

We know that professionals are not all long term traders. Some scalp. Well they are certainly not going to scalp off a 15 minute chart. Regardless of size. It stands to reason that they are on the 3 min just as it stands to reason they are on the 15 min.

This is also why different professionals can be on opposite sides of the...
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