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Quoting woo
So drawing upon that it could mean any of the following:

lets assume you played average amounts of time:

1your iq is high,but your memory sucks
2your iq is not high, your memory is mediocre/bad


Number one is unlikely as higher iq usually correspond to better memory.

So given that you played lots of chess, but still suck, this likely tell that your iq is below the average of the average chess player.

But then again, i assume people attracted to a thinking man game like chess, may posses higher iq on average.

So I think your iq is lower...
I have been diagnosed with Dyslexia/poor working memory/low processing speed... so that probably goes a way to explaining my problems. I've just found some screen shots of IQ tests I have taken in the past at www.iqtest.dk (http://www.iqtest.dk) and my average score is about 120... I wonder if the test is of the same type/quality as 'proper' IQ tests.
Living the adventure in my head.
Quoting Leonlorenzo
I have been diagnosed with Dyslexia/poor working memory/low processing speed... so that probably goes a way to explaining my problems. I've just found some screen shots of IQ tests I have taken in the past at www.iqtest.dk (http://www.iqtest.dk) and my average score is about 120... I wonder if the test is of the same type/quality as 'proper' IQ tests.

Ahh well, i was thinking about untimed chess games,becaus e thats only what i played online.

Im the same as you, a bit bad working mem and process speedmory, my brain power is great. Which means, that if i get enough time to think, i can figure things out, which i suspect is your case as well.e

Which also means that timed iq test will be bad, since we have low speed.

this is my own hypothesis again

(brain power times brain speed)= iq

einstein had poor working memory and also had dyslexia.

I suspect bad brain speed makes for it by compensating and increasing ones brain power.


so if you get enough time, you can use all your brain power. which einstein did since he just sat in his room thinking.


Thats good for us, as i think more brain power helps us in our quest of understanding the market and how to profit. Thats better than having mediocre brain power, and fast brain speed.

einstein had dyslexia. poor working memory.However his brain power had to be close to infinite.


and obviously, bad brain speed, will hamper your school results as it did for you and einstein, and me as well in my early years. But like einstein,you and me, we got smarter later on with our big brain power.

120 is really good. thats good for trading.

I assume you are a profitable trader. Seee....

good traders posses more than average brain power, and about 120 in iq. Like i sad

everything is about having brain power, to understand things by pondering and philosophizing like einstein. I think einstein is a good example, as he is a good example of my theory so to say.

I really believe, that to have a chance of being a trader, you need to posses above average brain power.

I hope ive cleared this out for you. You posses great brain power, you are a man that reach insight by spending time and thinking about things. Im sure im right about this after reading what you have written but your iq is not low either, its around 120(yes that iq test is quite representative'), so have the package to become a good trader that is knowledgeable and with great wisdom given enough time and especially experience.
I'm the same as you, a bit bad working mem and process speedmory, my brain power is great. Which means, that if i get enough time to think, i can figure things out, which i suspect is your case as well.

I have to agree with the 'time to think' statement... I do believe given the time I can get most things done to a higher quality than the majority of people.

I suspect bad brain speed makes for it by compensating and increasing ones brain power. so if you get enough time, you can use all your brain power. which einstein did since he just sat in his room thinking.

It's certainly a possibility.

Thats good for us, as i think more brain power helps us in our quest of understanding the market and how to profit. Thats better than having mediocre brain power, and fast brain speed.

Agreed. I'm generally a chilled out kind of person; I enjoy thinking, so I don't mind if it takes me a while.

and obviously, bad brain speed, will hamper your school results as it did for you and einstein, and me as well in my early years. But like einstein,you and me, we got smarter later on with our big brain power.

ROLF at "our big brain power" lol. That sounds(looks) hilarious. On a serious note: As time goes on I've developed coping strategies and improved my exam and learning techniques so my results have improved drastically.

120 is really good. thats good for trading

Thanks.

Judging by your posts it seems like you've got some autistic (high functioning) traits (lack of social skills, no tact), and I can see you rubbing a lot of people up the wrong way... regardless, I do quite like you so have a vouch! If you're an idiot I'll take it away, but for our little entertaining conversation I think you deserve it!

Regards, Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
Quoting woo
<truncated>

An iq of 180, without reflective mind, would only be good at calculating, doing maths, but not explore thoughts deeper, understand how things are. I cant quite put my finger on what this other skil is, but its not iq, but this skill is the most important for a trader, in order to READ SITUATIONS.


I posses around 130 iq, however, my insightfullness, is quite extraordinary. FOr me to even illustrate this concept with and understand this way, and even understanding what kind of inntelligence a trader need show that i posses a very thinking...
You have what a the Clifton Strengths Finder test would call Deliberative and "Intellection". I can relate to what you are saying alot. I need to figure stuff out and find out WHY things are the way they are. There is alot of depth and rational inter-relations that can be gleamed by thinking about how stuff fits together.

Another trait of a good speculator would be introspection and an understanding of one's own psychology. Some call it intra-personal skills.

For the "read situations" part, I'd say it's an instinct. I know some old school businessmen from the 1940s. Dropped outta grade school to feed their families and stuff. Life was a matter of survival and making shit work. Obviously can't do multivariate calculus and shit, but they can SMELL opportunity. It is a combination of experience, understanding and simply the burning desire to survive. It does something to you. Soros said similar as well I feel. There's something about tapping into the survival instinct that makes one read situations more or less instinctively. This same "read situations" trait is what makes a good special forces trooper. I've trained hand to hand with some of them and heck. You learn to "read situations" QUICK. It also spills over into many other facets of life. I can attest to that. And this trait is generally present in people who enjoy extreme sports / competitive high speed sports like boxing or fencing. That's my theory at least, cause a martial artist or spec ops trooper who can't read situations is... unthinkable.

Met people like that before? Can't be bothered with studying or what naught, but you give them a task to do and it ALWAYS get stuff done no matter what.

Good posts btw. It's refreshing to see someone who has put thought into things; Leon too. =)
One Mind, Any Market
I think it's easy to over-analyse and think about all the why's and wherefores, and trying to read and understand what's going on in depth is mostly a waste of time, and while you do this the market can change on a whim, the psychology and herd mentality plays a bigger part than anything.

So yes I agree, you need to be able to almost instinctively react and understand what you need to trade, otherwise your opportunity is gone.
Hi Woo,

Not sure if you've recieved any serious takers yet for your "generous" $9000 education fee.
Congratulations though on making $143 last week. I'm guessing that $9000 is like a year's salary for you? j/k.

Noticed that you are essentially a scalper... scalping 2 or 3 pips here and there.

Woo, here's my counter-offer. And it's probably the only serious offer you'll get. I'll start up an account... just to trade your method. Once it hits $18,000 in profit, you can take your $9,000 cut from it.
WTForex - Join our trading family
Quoting PurplePatch
I think it's easy to over-analyse and think about all the why's and wherefores, and trying to read and understand what's going on in depth is mostly a waste of time, and while you do this the market can change on a whim, the psychology and herd mentality plays a bigger part than anything.

So yes I agree, you need to be able to almost instinctively react and understand what you need to trade, otherwise your opportunity is gone.
Yeah. There's the "theoretical" musing, then the shit that works. Usually the stuff that works has been refined down to something elegant and simple. Or rather "simple". I tried explaining what I did to one of my mates and he was like, "dude. wtf?" Then I realised "simple" is relative to the degree of internalisation. Not that I'm some guru or anything... just workin' w what I know... and strivin' to get better n better.

And hey! Markets have their PMS/pot smokin' days too don't they?

THAT SAID. One of my good friends took $3k to $70k lately. He does something really simple. Knows jack shit abt order flow. It's called, going-with-the-trend. haha. G'day fellas. =)
And yes, part of me thinks he got lucky, but he's smart enough to bail while his luck was good and it waiting out another run. Gotta give credit to the control of one's own greed. As they say, I'D RATHER BE LUCKY THAN GOOD!
One Mind, Any Market
Wow lol this is great. Woo you sound like a 17 year old trying to boost his ego. Yes you may have Asperger's or whatever, you have a very high opinion of yourself (likening yourself to Einstein... yeah right) as do I (not of yourself, of myself), that's great and all but just remember that it doesn't make it true... just because you think you're so brilliant and can see everything so logically doesn't mean your logic is sound or that you aren't overlooking glaring flaws or even that you are more intelligent than the average person.

"Ive come up exactly on how human beings work, what defines love, and other thing, and i would probably revolutionize this area if i made my findings publicily available."
Come on that's plain bullshit. This is what I mean by your logic being unsound and your high opinion of yourself unfounded.

"A really reflective mind, would hower, start to think about the chacnes of the price going up to 80."
Er no that's what a normal person would do. I don't know how you got this opinion of everyone being so dumb, but most people are actually relatively intelligent. Sorry you're not that special.


Your insights on this thread are essentially "I understand liquidity and price change and have some sense of risk/reward". Great, I think we all understand that. I don't think that's what this thread was about.
Orderflows, mmmhh????, in my opinion it's just another holy grail, to make of use of this information, you would need inside info on every bank on earth and then add it all together to make sense, you may have one bank that needs to put $100m through the system to buy planes from wherever or something, but you may have another that doing exactly the same but opposite because it's operating on behalf of s shipbuilder with the same kind of transaction.
Woo, say NO to DRUGS , man.



Quoting woo
Actually, Anyone who is willing to pay me 9000 usd, i will tell you what this thread is about in private and the so called strategy and how you profit from it.

However, if its going to be worth explaining it, post me a picture screen from http://mensa.dk/testiq.xml where you get more than 115 in iq, with the lowest standard deviation. Because im being honest here, you need to be a smart trader to profit this.

That will just be me filtering. You at least need and iq of 115, which is rather low. WHat is more important is your lateral...
Why should he? I think he's happy in his own little world.
To quote the mathematician and philosopher Bertrand Russell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell) (1872-1970): "In the modern world the stupid are cocksure, while the intelligent are full of doubt."

There's a great post by mrgreen here (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=3746296#post3746296), about the Dunning-Kruger effect. Very thought provoking.

Whenever I read a post about yet another 'holy grail' idea or trading system; or somebody whose recent ROI% is several hundred times that attained by the world's wealthiest traders (Tudor Jones, Arnold, Cohen, Simons, etc); or folk boasting about their infallible ability to 'read' a market where any sufficiently large order can potentially upset even the most 'perfect' strategy; ....... it always brings me back to the idea expressed in mrgreen's post.

I've gotten off the original thread topic, sorry, but hopefully it's in keeping with the discussion in the last 20-30 posts.
Interesting post, I realised a while ago I was surrounded by these kind of people, boy did it increase my self-confidence, just hope it's not to the point of becoming one!
Quoting Cyrus
Yeah. There's the "theoretical" musing, then the shit that works. Usually the stuff that works has been refined down to something elegant and simple. Or rather "simple". I tried explaining what I did to one of my mates and he was like, "dude. wtf?" Then I realised "simple" is relative to the degree of internalisation. Not that I'm some guru or anything... just workin' w what I know... and strivin' to get better n better.

And hey! Markets have their PMS/pot smokin' days too don't they?

THAT SAID. One of my good friends took $3k...
order flow and trend trading goes hand in hand. The major difference is the skilled or those with the holy grail are in early while mainstream retail traders are usually late to the party.
Quoting hanover
To quote the mathematician and philosopher Bertrand Russell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell) (1872-1970): "[i]In the modern world the stupid are cocksure, while the intelligent are...
That is a very interesting post. Thanks for sharing it Hanover =)
One Mind, Any Market
Quoting aiyahmarklah
order flow and trend trading goes hand in hand. The major difference is the skilled or those with the holy grail are in early while mainstream retail traders are usually late to the party.
Yeah, I guess you can put it that way too.
One Mind, Any Market
Quoting hanover
To quote the mathematician and philosopher Bertrand Russell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell) (1872-1970): "[i]In the modern world the stupid are cocksure, while the intelligent are...
Good post Han. I appreciated the MrGreen reference as well. It's as the old saying goes, "The more you know, the more you realize the very little that you don't know." I think arrogance creeps in after a cursory read, and the humility after a couple pieces have been studied vigorously and you get a sense for the depth of that which you are working to understand. It's kind of like 'syllabus shock.'

I'm not going to get into the OFA discussion again too much (for times sake), but the very concept of trading OF is not very well defined anywhere, especially when it comes to the small guy trading it. All the OF research papers are somewhat helpful, but they are doing the analysis on the dealers side. This is why Gaston and others have said they do not trade OF like a dealer would--they're not dealers.

OFA in a nutshell, for us small guys, can be summed up like this:

Order flow analysis is all about seeing trader intentionality in the details the market gives.

That's all their is to it. It's easy though only when you surpass all the hurdles along the way, and even then I beleive the gravy train won't last forever. Good and honest data is the bedrock upon which real OFA can occur. Without it, you're sunk. My only word on this is you get what you pay for.

There are further pitfalls once you have good data as well. You can't just watch one market and assume you have have enough info. This is why those who are truly serious about it are those who run everything on full automation. To do it 'right,' takes a holistic view of the market at any one time.

Am I running on automation? Not a chance, I'm doing things the old fashioned way. What I do works, but it's hardly efficient. I've been thinking very seriously as of late about going to school to become a programmer.

Having a solid grasp on microstructure is helpful, but there is really no power in that part of it. The microstructure is just the simple framework--the field upon which we all play. Focus on the game being played and not the field.

This wasn't all directed at you Han, I just took the opportunity with this post to say everything I want to say regarding the latest developments in this thread.

All the best,

SB
Quoting Cyrus
You have what a the Clifton Strengths Finder test would call Deliberative and "Intellection". I can relate to what you are saying alot. I need to figure stuff out and find out WHY things are the way they are. There is alot of depth and rational inter-relations that can be gleamed by thinking about how stuff fits together.

Another trait of a good speculator would be introspection and an understanding of one's own psychology. Some call it intra-personal skills.

For the "read situations" part, I'd say it's an instinct. I know some old school...
Actually, ive been wondering whether good intrapersonal skills is helpfull. Your post helps me reach greather insight that ive not thought of.

Great intrapersonal skills is good for:

acknowledging wrong beliefs and thoughts, and being more doubtful, and therefore more analytical.

So intrapersonal skills increase analytical mind...which ultimately increase brain power as we have been talking about.


nice , solved that one. Its also sounds reasonable, iven if you dont dig deeper. Lets say, someone who cant take critic, one who will never see that he is doing any fault...this will undoubtedly hamper his ability to see the truth, even if he is smart...



Nah, order flow is everything
Here is my trading action today (which i like to display )
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/982/new3t.png
Quoting Scotty B
Good post Han. .......

My replies in blue typeface
I appreciated the MrGreen reference as well. It's as the old saying goes, "The more you know, the more you realize the very little that you don't know." I think arrogance creeps in after a cursory read, and the humility after a couple pieces have been studied vigorously and you get a sense for the depth of that which you are working to understand. It's kind of like 'syllabus shock.'
Exactly. Well said, IMO. I remember my father always telling me the "the more you know....." quote, and how he (at age 70+) was coming to the same realization (but about life in general, of course; investing in a few shares was the closest he ever got to trading forex, LOL).

Order flow analysis is all about seeing trader intentionality in the details the market gives.
Yes, agreed. But some of the posts here create the false impression that it's all about some secret way of reading price charts, that provides near-perfect forecasting.
There are further pitfalls once you have good data as well. You can't just watch one market and assume you have have enough info. This is why those who are truly serious about it are those who run everything on full automation. To do it 'right,' takes a holistic view of the market at any one time.
I may be heading off on a slightly different tack, but I definitely see value in finding possible confluences in correlated markets --- especially in forex, because of its inherent need to maintain triangular equilibrium. For example, if closely correlated pairs (e.g. AUDUSD and NZDUSD) are both about to hit strong support areas simultaneously, does that increase the probability of a bounce? My research suggests that it does....... but the people who believe in a KISS approach are going to say that such an idea is waaaaaay too complex.
Having a solid grasp on microstructure is helpful, but there is really no power in that part of it. The microstructure is just the simple framework--the field upon which we all play. Focus on the game being played and not the field.
I recall Darkstar saying somewhere that while knowledge of microstructure was useful, that in itself it doesn't deliver an edge. Makes sense when you think about it.

This wasn't all directed at you Han, I just took the opportunity with this post to say everything I want to say regarding the latest developments in this thread.
No problem, Scotty, I always enjoy reading your thoughts. Honesty and common sense are rare commodities on trading forums.
Sorry guys, I just realized that the saying I tried quoting from memory does not make sense. lol, I said the opposite of what I was going for. I got some help from google. Here is the correct saying:

"The more you know the more you know you don't know."
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