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  • #7,861
  • Jun 16, 2010 4:45pm Jun 16, 2010 4:45pm
Quoting Shamus
I never mentioned it would be free either so let's be factual....
Shamus, VSA trainer was to be given away for free, you mentioned that very clearly way long back.

Everyone knows and understand that coding such a program is hard work but claiming it will be for free and then charging for it is not appropriate. You should have mentioned very clearly in the first post that its not for free. Additionally, you mentioned in #7831 that "it was not a notice for beta testing" while the first post clearly says "beta testing AND release". Nobody is confused here, you changed your mind. Admit it.

Here is the link where you say its for free
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=2096
  • #7,862
  • Jun 16, 2010 5:00pm Jun 16, 2010 5:00pm
Quoting akkubhai
Shamus, VSA trainer was to be given away for free, you mentioned that very clearly way long back.

Everyone knows and understand that coding such a program is hard work but claiming it will be for free and then charging for it is not appropriate. You should have mentioned very clearly in the first post that its not for free. Additionally, you mentioned in #7831 that "it was not a notice for beta testing" while the first post clearly says "beta testing AND release". Nobody is confused here, you changed your mind. Admit it.

Here is the link where...
I appologize to grab this out. I do not mean it personally, really. I just wanted to illustrate what I was talking about.

Did this post help to anyone? - I doubt.

Does it have a value? - I can not find it.

Is it educational or questioning (trading related) ? - Non of these really.

What is the hoped result of this post? - Perhaps, if he admits it, you will get something, for me unknown, what makes you feel good. Therefore this is personal stuff.

Please, if your communication is around these permisses, go private or better, go take a beer or two and try this again tomorrow. With a lighter heart hopefully.

Once again, sorry akkubhai that I used your post to press my point.
Kind Regards zol
  • #7,863
  • Jun 16, 2010 5:26pm Jun 16, 2010 5:26pm
those who can not afford to pay for his valuable efforts had better go and look for another "free for good" holy grail.

Even if the SMART will be free, these kind of guys might still complain about it
  • #7,864
  • Jun 16, 2010 5:27pm Jun 16, 2010 5:27pm
Quoting chief1oar
Just some thoughts here on all the hooha over SMART....


You may have noticed I don't post much as I really don't have much to say, but sometimes I find myself in a position that requires I speak my mind.


First, I have had no part in the development of Shamus's software, and I have no interest in it, financial or otherwise. I was asked to Beta test it and provide feedback, which I did and posted my thoughts earlier on the thread.


We all owe Tom Williams.... we owe him our gratitude for developing his ideas into a workable system which we all...
I agree with essentially everything you're saying, but you're missing the point of all this upset. There were insinuations, implications, etc. it would be free, then we find it's for sale. End of story.

It should have been stated at some point that there would be a charge for it; if that had been the case, nobody would even be posting about this.
  • #7,865
  • Jun 16, 2010 6:55pm Jun 16, 2010 6:55pm
Here's my take on VSA. No surprises there.

http://forums.babypips.com/free-fore...-fibb-etc.html

I'm not selling anything..I'm on a long, if not permanent, vacation from my trading room. I think you all will find it usefull.

Regards,

Petefader.
  • #7,866
  • Edited 7:09pm Jun 16, 2010 6:58pm | Edited 7:09pm
Quoting akkubhai
Shamus, VSA trainer was to be given away for free, you mentioned that very clearly way long back.

Everyone knows and understand that coding such a program is hard work but claiming it will be for free and then charging for it is not appropriate. You should have mentioned very clearly in the first post that its not for free. Additionally, you mentioned in #7831 that "it was not a notice for beta testing" while the first post clearly says "beta testing AND release". Nobody is confused here, you changed your mind. Admit it.

Here is the link where...
Thanks for the post. I also remember reading in other posts early on, perhaps on the first post, that can always be edited, that it was going to be free, although I dont want to waste my time looking for it. So now the statement that it was never mentioned that it would be free is false. This is the reason that some people are upset, and rightly so. Anyways, the Malcolm thread is free and has a free book link.

Anyway, since the thread starter indicated that it will be free, then he should give it for free to anyone that followed the thread under that assumption and posted to the thread. Any party coming after and knowing that not free should pay. That will teach people not to pull a bait and switch. So anyone that posted before the bait and switch should be entitlted to get it for free.
  • #7,867
  • Jun 16, 2010 7:31pm Jun 16, 2010 7:31pm
Quoting wwwin
Thanks for the post. I also remember reading in other posts early on, perhaps on the first post, that can always be edited, that it was going to be free, although I dont want to waste my time looking for it.
You probably wouldnt find it since from what I've seen today the posts are edited. In this post, he had said something waaay different about Malcolmb14:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7857

and now it has been edited.

It's just like he did when he "misquoted" you and has now edited, making your posts seem senseless. Here you can see what the post originally looks like. Editing posts like that isn't very nice either.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture Forum.jpg Size: 91 KB
On a journey to consistency.
  • #7,868
  • Jun 16, 2010 7:40pm Jun 16, 2010 7:40pm
Quoting Tataocb
You probably wouldnt find it since from what I've seen today the posts are edited. In this post, he had said something waaay different about Malcolmb14:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7857

and now it has been edited.

It's just like he did when he "misquoted" you and has now edited, making your posts seem senseless. Here you can see what the post originally looks like. Editing posts like that isn't very nice either.
You are absolutely correct, in the Malcolm mentioned post, he originally said that Malcolm had banned him from his thread, and that Malcolm was claiming that Shamus had banned him from this one.

Anyways, even if Malcolm did not ban him, since Shamus is now a commercial member, I don't think he can post on the not-commercial boards.
  • #7,869
  • Jun 16, 2010 8:12pm Jun 16, 2010 8:12pm
Quoting wwwin
......... since Shamus is now a commercial member, I don't think he can post on the not-commercial boards.

Is this correct? Even this one?
  • #7,870
  • Jun 16, 2010 8:17pm Jun 16, 2010 8:17pm
Quoting Intel
Is this correct? Even this one?
Can only post in the Under Evaluation forum, or in Commercial Forum threads where they are the thread-starter
  • #7,871
  • Jun 16, 2010 8:19pm Jun 16, 2010 8:19pm
Quoting sunpost
Can only post in the Under Evaluation forum, or in Commercial Forum threads where they are the thread-starter
Thanks for that.
  • #7,872
  • Jun 16, 2010 10:32pm Jun 16, 2010 10:32pm
Quoting Intel
Is this correct? Even this one?
just noticed that Twee moved this thread to the commercial forum section.
unless this thread is moved back to a non-commercial section, then commercial members can post here.
  • #7,873
  • Edited 6:47am Jun 17, 2010 3:25am | Edited 6:47am
On my side I would not buy SMART or any other system.

If you take the tradeguider for example, even Tom Williams says that it's not optimal and there are some signal bars that it cannot detect. Why? Because if we say that a bar closing on the high must close inside the upper 30% range of the bar, then if a given bar follows all the required conditions except that it is closing 35% off the high, does it really become a wrong bar? And all the systems have to use that kind of parameterization in some way.

What is a no-demand bar? A bar with a volume lower than the 2 previous bars? Or lower than the 3, 4 or 5 previous bars? Or with a volume no more than half the n previous bars? Or with a lower volume than the 30 periods moving average of the volume? Which one is correct? NONE!!

And in their Symposium about VSA they come with they up-bars being sometimes a no supply bar or a down-bar being in some cases a no-demand bar.

Why would they bother selling it 5k and making a whole site and seminars and all their advertisements if it was really working?

Now that we know how VSA works we don't need any software to see a no-demand or a no-supply bar. All what comes from a software is based on rules and parameters and they are for sure not adapted to all the situations which might occure.

Simply use the Hidden gap volume indicator, a daily pivot indicator and you can code simple indicators to show the spread of the bars if you have difficulty to see the relative spreads on the chart and you have all the informations required to trade VSA successfully.

I'm sorry to say that, but SMART doesn't look that impressive. The support/resistance indicator can be found in any MT4 forum, and perhaps you have it all already.

The other parts of the system showing if a trend is bullish or bearish on all the timeframes is also quite easy and there are plenty of this kind of indicators everywhere and they are all as useless as all the others!!!

That's always the same problem:

IF A SYSTEM WAS REALLY PROFITABLE AND EASY TO USE, WHY WOULD THE AUTHOR MAKE US PAY FOR IT?
  • #7,874
  • Jun 17, 2010 4:03am Jun 17, 2010 4:03am
That's right!

All you need to look for is very high volume and after that low volume to open a position.


Regards
  • #7,875
  • Edited 7:18am Jun 17, 2010 6:57am | Edited 7:18am
Quoting dvarrin
On my side I would not buy SMART or any other system.

If you take the tradeguider for example, even Tom Williams says that it's not optimal and there are some signal bars that it cannot detect. Why? Because if we say that a bar closing on the high must close inside the upper 30% range of the bar, then if a given bar follows all the required conditions except that it is closing 35% off the high, does it really become a wrong bar? And all the systems have to use that kind of parameterization in some way.

What is a no-demand bar? A bar with...

If you saw earlier in the thread SMART did actually pick up a signal that TG with esignal missed... and did it with a MT4 feed (gasp)

Let's start at the beginning. I agree as a VSA purist that you do not need software to trade VSA. I do however feel that a tool that is meant to speed up my decision making process and gives me the ability to quickly size up the background strength or weakness is not only useful but valuable.

As a software and UI developer I immediately didn't like TG the only software available at the time for VSA.

It was clunky, unintuitive and for my money not a very well written piece of software. I thought about how would I approach doing a VSA trading/training system... This is the nucleus for what SMART became.

I wanted a system that would not be laggy/clunky, that would include BG scanners and paint bars rather than use icons so I could immediately recognize a favorite set up or pattern based on the colors of the bars. That is how it started. It wasn't some diabolical plan to separate you from your money,

SMART is a tool, it is pure VSA plain and simple, it's not some magic system, or a guaranteed money maker as some of you are suggesting. It is meant to allow you to very quickly see VSA setups, to know what the background is at a glance, and be able to, within seconds know whether a trade will likely work out or not based on the pattern and background. It is also not 3k dollars (I am told TG is now 5K but didn't confirm nor do I care) it also is not a monthly lease fee of 150.00. It is a one time purchase and minor updates are free. We are already planning our next update now which will include audio alerts, something TG also doesn't have and some other surprises I don't want to give away just yet. We are also planning a Stand Alone Version as I already mentioned earlier.

A customer asked if we could include a pattern scanner... it was added in 15 minutes and live on the client server 15 minutes after that. This is the type of company you would be dealing with as a customer. We use the software too and are constantly seeking ways to make it faster/better and are flexible enough to add to or optimize the code within a very short amount of time.

I understand there was some confusion from some of you regarding the beta vs release and I admit that could have been handled better but the simple truth is Chuck and I both spent an enormous amount of time developing, refining, and testing this software over the last year+. Chuck was also in a very bad accident as many of you know and has a large number of medical bills as a result.

Yes we are charging for it, and yes you do not need this to trade VSA. Will it make learning or trading VSA faster? Yes. Do we think it will help those new to VSA and seasoned VSA traders too? Yes.

If you look at the screenshots I have posted throughout the thread vs a tg screen you can immediately see the difference and why I feel our's is a better product. A green bar for instance on our chart is an effort to rise and immediately identifiable on any time frame and any chart. On tg it takes precious seconds to get a sense of what it is (for new VSA traders) On smart it does not. Immediately once you are familiar with the color key (customizable too) you know what is going on. The BG scanners (which again... TG doesn't even have) let you know whether the BG is strong or weak. all right in front of you in real time and multiple time frames.

If you don't want to buy it that's fine but don't try to say it's not useful without even knowing the product or what it does.

Our goal was to create an easy to read/learn/trade and affordable VSA system nothing more.

As always I am in the chat and if you have any questions feel free to PM me or pop in there.


PS our SR is *Volume based* SR (VSR) not SR. It is based on a fairly standard support indicator so perhaps that is why you made that comment?
The trend always ends.
  • #7,876
  • Jun 17, 2010 10:55am Jun 17, 2010 10:55am
Quoting dvarrin
On my side I would not buy SMART or any other system.

If you take the tradeguider for example, even Tom Williams says that it's not optimal and there are some signal bars that it cannot detect. Why? Because if we say that a bar closing on the high must close inside the upper 30% range of the bar, then if a given bar follows all the required conditions except that it is closing 35% off the high, does it really become a wrong bar? And all the systems have to use that kind of parameterization in some way.

What is a no-demand bar? A bar with...
That is right, and MQL is very easy to decompile, so why would they sell it knowing that soon it would decompiled and sold on EA or shared? If it really had anything good to offer, it would not be sold, it would produce the profits without the headaches involved in selling it, such as this thread now.
  • #7,877
  • Jun 17, 2010 1:02pm Jun 17, 2010 1:02pm
wow. this 1 milion view thread just went STRAIGHT to crap with the release of SMART. SMART should have had its own release thread under commercial instead of moving what was a large resource of charts and such to whole other forum.
is there any way we can petition for a SMART thread and have this moved back to trading discussion? 90% of whats in this thread is nonSMART related minus the last two days of bull.
  • #7,878
  • Jun 17, 2010 2:21pm Jun 17, 2010 2:21pm
Quoting RaverStyleTim2
wow. this 1 milion view thread just went STRAIGHT to crap with the release of SMART. SMART should have had its own release thread under commercial instead of moving what was a large resource of charts and such to whole other forum.
is there any way we can petition for a SMART thread and have this moved back to trading discussion? 90% of whats in this thread is nonSMART related minus the last two days of bull.

Tim,

I agree completely.. losing this resource for those trying to learn would be a terrible thing.

I will be sending Twee a pm, petitioning for exactly this. Suggest you and anyone else who may interested do the same..

Chief
  • #7,879
  • Edited 8:17pm Jun 17, 2010 5:30pm | Edited 8:17pm
Quote
Hi,Shamus

you need to protect your software before seling it to anyone.

...


The software is not mql. It's written in C and is packaged within a windows dll.

Tim I agree I am placing the commercial members bickering here on ignore so they cannot post any longer in the thread and have already requested clean up of their threads as well as those releated to the SMART release. Chief I am talking with the upper ups at ff about his as well but not sure it will work.
The trend always ends.
  • #7,880
  • Edited 6:13pm Jun 17, 2010 5:51pm | Edited 6:13pm
Quoting wwwin
That is right, and MQL is very easy to decompile, so why would they sell it knowing that soon it would decompiled and sold on EA or shared? If it really had anything good to offer, it would not be sold, it would produce the profits without the headaches involved in selling it, such as this thread now.
Why would it not be sold? It's a training tool first and foremost as I said above and you completely ignored.

it is not written in mql it is packaged as a dll with redundant security and license checks.

I explained why The software is for sale and what it is here: http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=7882.

You have chosen to completely ignore it which I think shows your intent here and that is why I am placing you on ignore as well. Even though the thread atm is in limbo I will still police it for useless and derailing users as I always have.

Good luck to you.
The trend always ends.
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