Trade Using VSA (Volume Spread Analysis)

how about we just keep this vsa lol. if you want to talk about the smart system, start antoher thread under trading systems or commercial

No offense but maybe you should just take your lumps here.

It's not insane for people to have thought this would be free. That's what I thought, as did many others, so obviously there was something in your communication that at least implied it. You might try understanding that is all I'm saying.

And before someone starts flaming me, I'm not just looking for a freebie, I'm fine paying for things, etc.

Anyway, some feedback for what it's worth...

I agree.

I can post as my post anything that does not violate the rules, you on the other hand, attributed a quoted message to me that was not at all what I posted, you hit the quote button and changed the wording attributed to my post. You cannot do that, anyways, soon you will be a commercial member as you are promoting a commercial endeavor SMART.

I really do not understand the irritating rub here. The whole intent was to produce something to shorten the learning curve for VSA (which can be subjective). Even Mal mentioned he used Tradeguider for a few months until he could do it in his sleep, in fact he has said to treat trading like a business and pay for the resources that will produce the desired results (esignal feed, Tradeguider plugin etc.).

Why is everyone upset that SMART charts are posted yet no one seems to be unduly upset when Tradeguider charts are used.

Regardless the whole intent of this thread has been to build an appreciation for the power of VSA. Over the past year I go looking for "the next big thing" but always come back, why because VSA helps to read the market intentions better and faster instead of waiting for three or more confirming indicators. VSA can be applied to a mulitude of trading methods (short term to long term). In fact I like the way Mal is introducing a thought process that may require less screen time.

I need this threads contributors to continue that I may some day pay back like them with experience and wisdom.

Lets trade VSA style.

Bill

PS as for being profitable no software in our realm of trading should guarantee success. As all traders given the same the same signal will react differently thus it really is up to the Trader not the software.

Yes. You are right. I was just annoyed that you were insinuating I said something I didn't. I will edit the message.

I'm with you on this one. Two rules broken so far. Disrespected the fellow FF member and promoting a product with a "hidden agenda".

This is Marketing 101. He created this big hype about the system for a very long time, creating great misleading expectations among the FF community. I saw a lot of posts in recent pages of people being advised to check the spam folder for the notifications and everyone awaiting eagerly the release of the system only to now tell us that it is for sale. It's as if he was using the FF community to promote his product so on the launch date everyone would be interested and would buy the product. That is wrong and goes against the Forum Policies.

The moment he decided he was going to sell the product, that's when he should have asked to become a Commercial Member and promote the product in the relevant forum. I doubt he decided he was going to sell it yesterday. Now he wants to make it up by asking to become a Commercial Member after the harm has been done.

BTW, you can find Malcolmb14's thread here:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=241760

Bill,

For one, Malc still uses TG..it works great and there is no question. I'm sure SMART does too...but Tom Williams and those guys have it clearly stated from the first minute you start looking into TG that it costs money.
I have just been rubbed the wrong way and if you guys want to spend the 350 go ahead...

And about the guys that are already using the SMART system...bet most didn't pay.

Worldwide there are: funny men, smart men (few but good), and many men prick.


It's how it works.


Lubo.

P.s. a small community can be considered as a little world?

It is just a small thought that passing out.



.

This thread finally bacame interesting...

People who are selling systems are people who failed as a trader, but afterall nothing is for free and there's probably been some effort put into making of Smart. What should I think of TG then...

I think leasing a system for a few months is the best way to learn the VSA patterns. That's how I learned VSA and don't need nothing but a price and a volume on my screen now...

Malcolm, gonna follow your thread...


Regards

I think there is nothing wrong with Shamus charging for SMART. After all he indicated only beta version is free but I have to agree with other users that lot of hype created gave impression that it would be free. But one thing we have to agree with that Shamus did a lot of service by starting this thread and posting lot of informative resources in first post.

Mal you were a valuable contributor here and you are always welcome on the thread.

i think everyone needs a drink !! WTF , happened...lol

Just some thoughts here on all the hooha over SMART....


You may have noticed I don't post much as I really don't have much to say, but sometimes I find myself in a position that requires I speak my mind.


First, I have had no part in the development of Shamus's software, and I have no interest in it, financial or otherwise. I was asked to Beta test it and provide feedback, which I did and posted my thoughts earlier on the thread.


We all owe Tom Williams.... we owe him our gratitude for developing his ideas into a workable system which we all know as VSA. Were it not for his work, none of us would be reading this now.


When one study's Wyckoff's work, the principles of VSA are there, but the details are very nebulous, and if you want to know more you have to pay the Wyckoff foundation for training which is very expensive. This is Tom's contribution, the details of how to apply Wyckoff's principles.


Tom Williams chose to use his knowledge and develop a system of trading software which would utilize his principles. That was all fine, only one issue... it was necessary to understand the principles in order to use the software. What did Tom do? He published and SOLD a book of his principles for $199. When it hit the internet, like many other books, it was distributed actually illegally, so much that it eventually became public domain. To this day, basically, everyone who has downloaded and read MTM has done so illegally. Fortunately for everyone, Tom and Gavin have realized the spread of VSA knowledge actually helps them and have not moved to stop the downloading of Tom's book. If one wants to get really technical about it, even using the term VSA is a copyright violation. But nevertheless, the truth is when something works it's going to grow like herb in your backyard, and that is precisely what has happened with VSA, and we are all better off as a result.


Today, TradeGuider is just bigger and more expensive, nothing else has changed. Everything is still for sale. The 'free' stuff offered by TG is minimal and embedded in long rambling videos promoting the software, BUT.... for a price, you can take their course and learn the principles. And for another price, you can attend their live trading room..AND for another price you can order this DVD or that seminar or....and on and on. The point... we all know their's is a business, they don't give without expecting to 'get', and the price is very high. If Tom had decided to approach things differently, we would be paying dearly for his information today, and there wouldn't be any threads on any forum about VSA, anywhere other than TradeGuider.


This thread is a result of Tom's work and his company, TG. Without it, none of us would know anything about VSA and still be muddling along trying to make a profit using MA crossovers or one of the other ten thousand methods being promoted out there, mostly at a tremendous cost, not only up front but in losses. I myself was someone who fell victim to that and it cost me dearly. After a 5 year hiatus from trading, I stumbled onto VSA via this thread and have been a steady adherent ever since. The one thing I have learned is that education is expensive, whether it is going to college or learning to trade. As the old saying goes..'There ain't no such thing as a free lunch'. The question we all must answer at some point is..'What is a career worth?'.


If one doesn't want to invest in themselves, a career at Taco Bell is pretty cheap, so are the rewards.


When one looks around the net, it becomes very apparent very quickly that anything that has to do with the Stock Market is going to cost, and it isn't cheap. From courses on options to books, software or mentoring, you are going to pay, yet, amazingly enough, at the same time the Forex market is promoted all over the net with all types and kinds of stuff 'Free', no commission, high leverage etc., etc. ad nauseum. Ever ask yourself 'Why is that?'.


The answer is desperation... the Forex boys have found that marketing to people desperate to change their circumstances will jump on anything that offers hope within their limited budgets. They offer the promises of almost unlimited riches for a pittance. The poor, the weak, the desperate have always been a target of those unscrupulous operators seeking to profit at the expense of others. If you look through the threads on this or any other forum, this should hit you like a shovel to the head. If some of the surveys I have read are accurate, close to 90% of all the people trading Forex cannot afford to. They are desperate to the point of financing their efforts with credit cards they can't repay. Desperate times make people do desperate things and that always makes the greedy and unscrupulous richer.


Fortunately, there those who operate on principles other than greed and ignorance. This thread and several others on the forum are prime examples of people joining together and contributing for the good of all. They seek to dispel the ignorance and myths surrounding trading, and keep others out of the clutches of the crooks and operators that rule the retail Forex market. Most of us cheer in our hearts everytime we see a 'newb' post they have just seen the light, because we know that in a business where the odds are worse than Vegas, one more might have been saved from the slaughter.


All do this from their hearts, with the best of intentions, studying, thinking and agonizing over how best to help, what to say, will it make a difference, how can it be improved. This is all freely given, without self interest... and from the size of this thread, freely taken as well. This is what 'community' is all about, and we have that here. As a result of ALL the contributors and their efforts, hundreds of people have been exposed to VSA, and hopefully saved from the carnage that takes place every single day.


There are many here who can be counted as the leaders in this effort, among them are Malcomb, Dr. G., Hidden Gap and many many others, but were it not for Shamus who started this thread, none of this might not have been possible. All the contributions here are important. No one contribution means more than another, for it is in the totality of contribution that creates a whole experience.


Along the way there have been many contributions made in the development of indicators and software to aid in the learning and trading process. Some helped, some didn't. Mostly, none required much in the way of effort. A few lines of code, a bit of this code added to some existing code, a change to this line or that snippet, cranked out in an hour or two and posted for use.


Early on the idea of 'affordable' software came along, TG was $3000 then (that was 1 year ago, by the way.) Shamus grabbed the idea and ran with it. I don't think he was prepared for the complexity, time and effort that was going to be required to achieve that simple idea, especially since Shamus is not a programmer.


Over time spent in the chat room, I saw Shamus's aim, which was no different than most of us, to simply help. The one difference with Shamus was his willingness to put his money where his heart was, and I do know that he paid dearly. More than any of us would be willing to risk to see an idea come to fruition.


In conversations over the past months, I have become aware of the difficulties he faced and the expenses involved in achieving this goal, and although I don't know the figures, I can surmise from experience. I can also say this: I have seen the man's heart, and I can say unequivocally that we all would be better people were we to emulate it.


With all this rambling, I am trying to get to the point which is... let's keep things in perspective.


Any of us who are using VSA without paying TG, are essentially using 'pirated' intellectual property. Whether we learned from this thread or any of the others out there.


Shamus has produced an affordable software package which will help anyone, new or experienced, survive in the markets by trading better. What Shamus has offered up is something which cannot be found anywhere else for the same price, with the support and integrity of someone we have all had a chance to get to know, rather than some faceless 'getrichquickbaitandswitchpromisethemoon' website promoter. To berate the man for offering it up for 1/6th the price of TG, in an effort to recover some of his expense, and offer something that most all can afford, is somewhat difficult to understand. Especially in light of the contributions he has made to the community here, which also includes setting up, running and hosting the chat room which we all gained tremendously from, and continue to do so.


Remember, no one is twisting your arm to use it, VSA is not about software.. it will still be here and you must still learn the principles and practice in order to ever be successful.


Last, we have created a tremendous community here, full of very knowledgeable people willing to give and share with anyone who comes along. I, myself, owe this community a tremendous debt for without it I would not be trading today. I would be forever saddened if these efforts resulted in the degradation or loss of this wonderful asset we all have. Personally, I will not let this get in my way and I urge everyone to step back, take a breath and think about what we all might lose if we get into a pissin' match.


Sincerely,


Chief

Well said Chief!! You said it much more eloquently than I did and I have thus removed my post.

Thank you Chief. I appreciate it. I am in talks with FF to recuse my posts and restore this thread to it's state from a few days ago.

+1 Chief

Has anyone seen the VSA thread?

For me this is a "CanadianDude" deja vu. If you don't understand the system, you will fail. If you understand it then you don't need to buy its rules. Period.

Chief....well said. Nice to read the lines especialy for non native so I can learn.

I did not post for a while as I am having a lot of problems with new job+country+language and all. I do trade/learn to trade longer term, like 4H trend trading but I still rate VSA high. Indeed very high.

I was dissapointed about the talk here. I would like to add my 2 cents in a simplified maner.

When I was a complete newbi (even more than now...yes, it is possible) Shamus helped me with really kind words in the chat room. That was not from one who deliberetly puts up some scam plan.

Similarly, Malcolmb helped me even in some private messages.

So I concluded long ago that this is a community with nice people who are here to help and work together. Any hot tempered conversation is just taking the community to sidelines - nothing we really want. The focuss should be on trading and on each other in a positive way.

Unfortunatelly this is the internet and people do treat each other harshly. And do react harshly too. Waste of energy what could be put into building this nice thing here.

I would like to suggest to all of us the folowings:

 

1. If you have a personal issue, go private and do not humiliate others by going open. A gentleman (gentle lady) does so.
2. Before you get upset, think twice. Would you tell the same in live to the eyes also? Would you tell in the same maner?
3. Does the content of your thoughts help on anyone/anything? Does it have a building quality or it is just destroying? If so, really, go for a beer instead.

I noticed the above problems on many people and it has nothing to do with age. If you are unable to act with good manners, politely you have a stuff to work on. You may be a good trader (cool for you) or a bad trader (and good in the future) but you spend here big time of your life with virtual friends/budies/partners - I do not even have budies yet. Please treat everyone in the way you would like to be treated.


By the way, does it really look correct to run down the thread opener like an unsatisfied army? I also thought it was for free. It is not. So what? I did not count the hours they put into developing it. It is way more than I would have done for something that helps people. So I guess that makes me look lazy....

I am grateful for this thread. Thank you. Shamus, I hope you will have success with SMART. Mal, I hope you will have success with your new thread, I am on it. You, other guy, let us trade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To finish: I am short on GJ at 135.11 after this cool 5m bar I lined the last. I need no program to see the killer Volume on this chart (not against programs). I hope you see the much higher V on that bar. The level of 135.80 was denied several times.
As I write this I am up 60 pips on that trade. That is to VSA. Without that I would not have identified this cool V bar with that level of selling in the background. Oooops...my paper profit seems to go...it is only 54 pips now. What to do?????