ok thats it!!! trading is more an art then a math algorithm | Page 2 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

A more *dynamic, refined, redundant* exit algorithm 10 replies

Australian broker thats not mt4 6 replies

Orders by a trading algorithm? 1 reply

Dejavue, 1995, thats some cycle 6 replies

buy data thats multi-sourced or not? 0 replies

ok thats it!!! trading is more an art then a math algorithm

  • #21
  • May 18, 2010 5:46pm May 18, 2010 5:46pm
Quoting Adal
What do you think about this?

The founder of Tradebot, in Kansas City, Mo., told students in 2008 that his firm typically held stocks for 11 seconds. Tradebot, one of the biggest high-frequency traders around, had not had a losing day in four years, he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/business/17trade.html

http://www.tradebotsystems.com/img/vonbev_col.jpg
Interesting!!! If you were to extrapolate the success of this computer to every single retail trader. What do you think would happen to the markets as we know them? Just a curious question.....what if noone ever lost by using these super computers? Could trading survive as we know it. What do you think?
  • #22
  • May 18, 2010 5:59pm May 18, 2010 5:59pm
Quoting swingtrader
I have been trading frm last 3 years and all this times i have read and tried loads of systems and indicators but i must says nothing really works with any 100% of security and now i have already stopped looking for more systems,only thing works in this market is standard things like


s/r
pivots
channels
trendlines
Higer time frames


whats your view about it?
Swingtrader the biggest improvement in my game was getting into the higher time frames. I like to use price action in 4 hour charts around weekly support and resistance. This has been working for me really well.

So I would agree with,
***Price Action***
**Weekly S/R**
  • #23
  • May 18, 2010 6:07pm May 18, 2010 6:07pm
Quoting swingtrader
I have been trading frm last 3 years and all this times i have read and tried loads of systems and indicators but i must says nothing really works with any 100% of security and now i have already stopped looking for more systems,only thing works in this market is standard things like


s/r
pivots
channels
trendlines
Higer time frames


whats your view about it?
Your logic. I told too much.
The more experience the closer to the reality
  • #24
  • May 18, 2010 6:19pm May 18, 2010 6:19pm
Quoting PipHacker
Hi,
Well from my trading experience i have observed that all indicators repaints
lol, what nonsense.
  • #25
  • May 18, 2010 6:22pm May 18, 2010 6:22pm
trendlines, channel tops and bottoms in fact support and resistance?? Yes to these. I have never seen convincing evidence for the efficacy of Fib or Pivot point trading methods. Higher TFs yes.
Vincit qui se vincit.
  • #26
  • May 19, 2010 4:21am May 19, 2010 4:21am
Quoting qwertymyfx
lol, what nonsense.
Haha Man you are a newbie as registered in 2010 you will get the sence soon after blowing out your account when you will see your indicators going against you. Every time when strong fundamental announces and incase price goes againt you than indicator repaints,,,& your system fails But if you trade through trendlines or S/R Lines than no matter what ever or when ever any strong fundamental announces if S/R line breaks in your favour you will get your Pip's,,,
This makes a sence Isnt it??? lol
  • #27
  • May 19, 2010 4:58am May 19, 2010 4:58am
The market is neither art nor mathematical, but practical.

Though the ideas you have, such as: s/r, trendlines, pivots, etc are all good ideas/tools to use, the general idea of market trading is to find the trend and trade only in it's direction. Anything other than that, you're complicating the practicality of market dynamics. The use of Higher Timeframes, price action, and Trendlines serve the same purpose. Tools used to find the overall trend.
  • #28
  • May 19, 2010 5:30am May 19, 2010 5:30am
Quoting swingtrader
I have been trading frm last 3 years and all this times i have read and tried loads of systems and indicators but i must says nothing really works with any 100% of security and now i have already stopped looking for more systems,only thing works in this market is standard things like


s/r
pivots
channels
trendlines
Higer time frames


whats your view about it?
Hi swingtrader,

I agree with you also very important thing is Trading hours and your SL limit per day...

Cheers
"Buy on fear, sell on greed !!!
  • #29
  • May 19, 2010 5:31am May 19, 2010 5:31am
Quoting Jhig
The market is neither art nor mathematical, but practical.

Though the ideas you have, such as: s/r, trendlines, pivots, etc are all good ideas/tools to use, the general idea of market trading is to find the trend and trade only in it's direction. Anything other than that, you're complicating the practicality of market dynamics. The use of Higher Timeframes, price action, and Trendlines serve the same purpose. Tools used to find the overall trend.
This is very true. I trade with the trend in the smaller timeframes. I don't make 300 pips in one single trader over a 5 day period. Instead, it may take me three separate trades to do 300 pips over the same 5 day period. It is important psychologically that I am able generate revenue on a frequent basis. For one thing, it keeps me sharp and in tune with the market. My long term goal is to have a long term strategy of trading with the trend in the higher timeframes. In this way, I can have the best of both worlds. My point is, you can be successful in the small timeframes or the large timeframes as long as you trade with the trend.
  • #30
  • May 19, 2010 1:18pm May 19, 2010 1:18pm
I scalp price action on very fast TF's.. and I would do the same as I would on higher timeframes... price action is price action. If you can't work on lower timeframes, try the higher timeframes, they are easier on the brain. Find what works for you and is easier to see.

Indicators are complete garbage, especially in forex, the sooner you get them off your charts, the better off you are. price action, S/R. nothing more, nothing less.

if your reading about a "system" on paper and it involves indicators for signals, the second you see that... you should wipe your ass with it the next time you take a shit.
  • #31
  • May 19, 2010 3:16pm May 19, 2010 3:16pm
Quoting swingtrader
only thing works in this market is standard things like


s/r
pivots
channels
trendlines
Higer time frames


whats your view about it?
Your on the right track IMHO. Even simpler than that is better though.
Especially to the extent that you need to use contrived fixed-parameter calculations. Ask yourself: Does the market, in its ongoing process of facilitating trade give a shit about these calculations? Then neither should we.
  • #32
  • May 19, 2010 4:36pm May 19, 2010 4:36pm
Quoting Adal
What do you think about this?

The founder of Tradebot, in Kansas City, Mo., told students in 2008 that his firm typically held stocks for 11 seconds. Tradebot, one of the biggest high-frequency traders around, had not had a losing day in four years, he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/17/business/17trade.html
The smaller your profit target, the higher the probability that you will achieve it. You (if you are like me) can trade the same way in forex, manually, with a >80% hit rate, day in, day out.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #33
  • May 19, 2010 4:42pm May 19, 2010 4:42pm
The market doesn't give a xxxx about anything.

Its a market not a sentient being. You are suggesting the wrong question. A more useful question is:
"Does a large enough (size + motivation) group of traders care about xxxx."

Those traders can be humans or machines ... it doesn't matter ... is there a group of them that can influence market behaviour?


That's why S&R works (all but the newbies can see it); why trendlines and channels work but less well (debatable); and why retracement percentages work. On fib retracements, I'd like to briefly defend them:

- The market backs and fills on its way from X to Y as it is perceived by enough traders to be overextended then falls back to hunt liquidity and perception of value for then next thrust.

- Key points where the retracements become likely (its only a probability) to finish are prior SbecomesR, lines, and percentages where enough people perceive its good value to have a punt.

- Fibs are well known and well watched value points ... but lets get real ... 1/3 1/2 2/3 3/4 are in every mind as well, even those who spit when they hear the word Fibonacci. Our minds work like this.

- So like S&R, lines etc, there is a support group for fib points (or slightly before or after them).

- As a trend loses strength or has retraced multiple times the expectation is that retracements will deepen and thus they do first perhaps hitting 38 then 50 or 62 then 78+ then breaking.


So, fibs will tend to work. It isn't magic. It doesn't have to stop on the number. But people looking to read perceived value in pullbacks will find that like S&R and lines they add to the probabilities.
  • #34
  • May 19, 2010 8:48pm May 19, 2010 8:48pm
I agree with the OP - I (demo) trade mostly price action and some fundamentals but I am still open to all kinds of technical systems(currently learning to code EA's etc.), however I always keep in mind that I shouldn't rely on any single technical system since price action in the currency markets is not like the neat and elegant parabolic trajectory of a projectile in motion that can be simplified into a few simple rules and equations that will hold everytime in all circumstances; it is a record of millions of different people exchanging billions of units of currency every day, not to mention possible interrelations with the other capital markets.
  • #35
  • Edited 8:53am May 20, 2010 2:08am | Edited 8:53am
Quoting swingtrader
I have been trading frm last 3 years and all this times i have read and tried loads of systems and indicators but i must says nothing really works with any 100% of security and now i have already stopped looking for more systems,only thing works in this market is standard things like


s/r
pivots
channels
trendlines
Higer time frames


whats your view about it?
Replace 'higher time frames' with "patterns", and you got it.

Why would the market follow anything 'standard', though? That most people may use these devices is no excuse.

The market is organic around the essentials of its make, such as being pairs, having to respond to and digest news, and going through lower- and higher-volume sessions.

I say, find what complex patterns with their own definitions are able to function interactively with themselves enough so that the user can look past paying attention to these organic features at the same time as have your list of devices obey the complex patterns as a whole, and you've got your nitch. NOT traditional patterns, these are just an educated guess; and, keeping to a technicals-only format.

(I just happen to have... It's demo, but....)

Someone's complex patterns are, in turn, computable, because they have standard definitions which one could filter the price-time line through and thus emplace on the line the devices you listed. Needs to be rules-based. In theory.

Would rather have that algorithm, though. Easier to think about, after the fact.
  • #36
  • Last Post: May 21, 2010 8:16am May 21, 2010 8:16am
Quoting Ivan
Your logic. I told too much.
you have hit the nail
0 traders viewing now