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You know you are a trader when.....? (Serious answers please)

  • #21
  • May 10, 2010 11:28pm May 10, 2010 11:28pm
Quoting KelvinLee
As for me, I know that I am a trader when I am able to produce consistent profit on my demo account for six months in a row.
Demo?

For those of you who are bored, try joining a trading firm, it's like a zoo in those rooms. 9am EST, almost everyone's at the office, talking about kids, wives, cars, prostitutes. 9:29am EST, you hear some guys say: one minute left, but still people are talking. then 9:30am, opening bell rings... it becomes quiet like on the cemetery for about 15seconds... then you start hearing: F*&^, SH&^%, mo&^%F*^&%, then you see someone punching a monitor, pointing middle finger at the screen, trying to break their keyboard... only those who are sitting quietly are making money that morning. It's fun. Even if you don't last long in such an office, it's one of the best experiences in your trading career.
Trax Tibidax Tibidox...
  • #22
  • May 11, 2010 1:19am May 11, 2010 1:19am
Quoting Mr J

And analyzing charts and watching PA is what I would consider "staring at the screen".
It's hardly staring, charts are what technical analysts use so looking at them is kinda prerequisite, besides which it's not 'all day'.

You miss trades, I make trades, 'nuff said
  • #23
  • May 11, 2010 9:42am May 11, 2010 9:42am
Quoting pipmutt
Does the transition need to be either/or, couldn't you maybe try out full time trading in vacation time from work (sick leave?).

Also be very aware that trading as a primary or sole source of income is a whole different ball game psychologically than trading for a supplementary income and a bit of fun, even more so if you have a family to support.

Being a full time trader obviously has it's benefits but it's not as glamorous as people think. It's a very solitary profession, it can often be quite stressful, there's no paid vacation time,...
I have to agree. I quit my job as a roof tiler to try trading after being consistant for a few months only to find that it really is not that great of a thing. I was hooked up originally on the spectacle of labelling myself a trader, once I realised that I realised that I was doing it for the wrong reasons.

If people hate their jobs, then quit, but dont take up trading thinking that it is the answer to all your dreams. The best move I made was to become self employed. I now make my own hours, I charge a rate per hour for the task I complete that suit what 'MY' time is worth and I have the freedom to trade on the side without the headache of having to pay the bills while still building my capital base.

Also, in my short time (to answer upon the initial portion of the thread) I realised that there are no targets. Setting targets will shorten your life because you dont know what the next month will have in store. You will have months where nothing happens and there will be months where everything happens so 'consistancy' in income is a dream, the reality is that you have to budget, just like with a real job.

I know that the theme was asking for full time traders so I apologise for not qualifying (out of personal choice) but if you are considering it then you need to understand that it is still a job and it is a grind of screen time most times, looking for signals to buy and sell and managing your capital. If you have a robust edge that has shown live results for more than a year and you have enough capital to ensure that you can withdraw living expenses on a monthly basis (at worst) while still maintaining account growth (not eating into your initial capital ie living expenses drawdown) and you feel comfortable with doing it for as many hours a day as is required to get results, then best of luck to you and I hope you find what you are looking for.

But in the initial lines lies my words of advice. Dont do it just to be able to say "I am a full time trader" to your mates. If that is all there is too it, then perhaps it is not time to do it yet, hence why I went to work for myself

Razor
  • #24
  • May 11, 2010 12:09pm May 11, 2010 12:09pm
Quoting pipmutt
Something else I just thought of, trading can be mind-blowingly boring.....
This is true, especially so when you are consistently trading the same way and consistently successful. You can mix up the ways you trade, trade different instruments, get into automation, get into the math, etc - but that's all a bore too. Essentially all effort to be on the right side of a coin flip. Big whoop. OK, so you can make sick amounts of money - but money's not everything. You probably won't know what I mean unless you have had/lost large amounts already in your life.

If you have had a life building things, solving problems, helping people, doing the normal things people do in professions that they take pride in - then a transition into only trading could be a real letdown. Because if you are just trading for yourself then you are leading an irrelevant existence.

Maybe not, though - everyone is different. I have had a taste of solo trading full-time and I know that I can sit down at the FO/LO and have more money an hour later. I know it & its just a fact. Does that make me a trader? I don't think so. People who keep trading even after they have more money than they know what to do with - like Livermore, Soros - those are traders. Is it a profession? An addiction - an affliction?
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #25
  • May 11, 2010 12:15pm May 11, 2010 12:15pm
Quoting The Fool
This is true, especially so when you are consistently trading the same way and consistently successful. You can mix up the ways you trade, trade different instruments, get into automation, get into the math, etc - but that's all a bore too. Essentially all effort to be on the right side of a coin flip. Big whoop. OK, so you can make sick amounts of money - but money's not everything. You probably won't know what I mean unless you have had/lost large amounts already in your life.

If you have had a life building things, solving problems, helping...
Well there is always a great need for money in community projects, humanitarian efforts, etc. Oftentimes there are many willing people to help but not enough money or capital to "help". So if you are really good at trading you can definitely help in big ways. So the answer is don't just trade for yourself trade for yourself and for the ability to help others with what is usually their biggest problem: finding capital for good worthwhile endeavors.
  • #26
  • May 11, 2010 12:17pm May 11, 2010 12:17pm
Quoting The Fool
Maybe not, though - everyone is different.
I agree with Pip and The Fool to an extent; the act of trading is mind numbingly dull, but i don't think i have ever been as 'plugged in' to what's going on all over the world as i have been since i started trading.

I find the relationships between economies, indices, commodities and currencies fascinating, and that is the part i find 'exciting'.

Trading is just the by-product. Almost.
  • #27
  • May 11, 2010 12:52pm May 11, 2010 12:52pm
Quoting Deusomega
Well there is always a great need for money in community projects, humanitarian efforts, etc. Oftentimes there are many willing people to help but not enough money or capital to "help". So if you are really good at trading you can definitely help in big ways. So the answer is don't just trade for yourself trade for yourself and for the ability to help others with what is usually their biggest problem: finding capital for good worthwhile endeavors.
Good point. My answer to the "problem" I see with trading for myself alone (and its just a problem insofar as its my point of view) is to trade OPM, to make even sicker amounts of money, and then to do microlending or just give it away.

And AstonDan, I agree - it is a fascinating field. I know a whole lot more about economics and the way the financial world works than I did when I got sucked into this a year ago. Not that I think that knowledge goes very far though....
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #28
  • May 11, 2010 1:07pm May 11, 2010 1:07pm
... you have one or more high probablity methods.

... you recognize different market conditions (ranging,trending) and wait patiently for setups.

... you take full risk control and the trade has a risk/reward 1:1 or better.

... you understand how to limit the losses and let the winners run (trailing stops,scale out or add to winning positions).

The market will pay you then on the long run.
  • #29
  • May 11, 2010 2:09pm May 11, 2010 2:09pm
Quoting The Fool
Not that I think that knowledge goes very far though....
Agreed
  • #30
  • May 11, 2010 4:28pm May 11, 2010 4:28pm
Quoting AstonDan
I agree with Pip and The Fool to an extent; the act of trading is mind numbingly dull, but i don't think i have ever been as 'plugged in' to what's going on all over the world as i have been since i started trading.

I find the relationships between economies, indices, commodities and currencies fascinating, and that is the part i find 'exciting'.

Trading is just the by-product. Almost.
That's something I hadn't really thought about and you're absolutely right, maybe that's what keeps the interest alive.

Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy everything about trading but the process itself can be a bit mundane, sometimes I think to myself what kind of a moronic job is this watching a number going up and down on a chart!
  • #31
  • May 11, 2010 6:32pm May 11, 2010 6:32pm
Quoting pipmutt
That's something I hadn't really thought about and you're absolutely right, maybe that's what keeps the interest alive.

Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy everything about trading but the process itself can be a bit mundane, sometimes I think to myself what kind of a moronic job is this watching a number going up and down on a chart!
I was once told that trading SHOULD be the most boring job on earth and if you are bored at it then you are usually having some success at it. IT is because of the repitition along with lack of stimulating surrounds (unless your trading from a beach bed on the shores of Bora Bora, which might be more distraction ). The repitition of charts after charts waiting for your signal to trade if the drag however the upside is that you are:

1) Not having to deal with a boss nagging you (unless your part of a trading firm)
2) Dont have to be out in either sub zero or desert hot temps
3) Dont have to work with people you cant stand
4) Can choose your hours
5) Can choose your location (Bora Bora baby)
6) THE POTENTIAL TO MAKE MORE MONEY IN A WEEK THAN SOME MAKE IN A YEAR.

I trade part time to make money and it is the reward of seeing week after week, month after month the slow (sometime quicker) growth of an account. It is the learning curve also that stimulates my mind as each day passes I still learn and see things I would have 5 years ago, had I not started this journey, not have known.

Razor
  • #32
  • May 11, 2010 6:34pm May 11, 2010 6:34pm
Quoting Razor_trader
6) THE POTENTIAL TO MAKE MORE MONEY IN A WEEK THAN SOME MAKE IN A YEAR.
This, also, is an excellent point.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #33
  • May 11, 2010 6:47pm May 11, 2010 6:47pm
Quoting The Fool
This, also, is an excellent point.
It is when you reach a point like this that I believe you can be of most use in a humanitarian role if that is the path you are looking down. I have always felt a desire to help those around me especially those who are hard working yet still struggling to get by. I would love nothing more that to have the fund to buy and build projects that help the less fortunate and to be able to manage things like that personally not just give it to a charity like most philanthropists do. That would be a mark that I would like to leave and a lesson for my children to carry.

Razor
  • #34
  • May 13, 2010 12:31am May 13, 2010 12:31am
Razor_trader,
Fantastic!
we have similar goals.

God bless you more.
  • #35
  • May 13, 2010 1:17am May 13, 2010 1:17am


Inserted Video


"When the essence of it runs through your body, mind and soul."
~ CrucialPoint



  • #36
  • May 13, 2010 1:49am May 13, 2010 1:49am
Quoting pipmutt
It's hardly staring, charts are what technical analysts use so looking at them is kinda prerequisite, besides which it's not 'all day'.

You miss trades, I make trades, 'nuff said
Obviously you're just looking to be petty. I have better things to do with my time.
  • #37
  • May 13, 2010 1:58am May 13, 2010 1:58am
Quoting Razor_trader
It is when you reach a point like this that I believe you can be of most use in a humanitarian role if that is the path you are looking down. I have always felt a desire to help those around me especially those who are hard working yet still struggling to get by. I would love nothing more that to have the fund to buy and build projects that help the less fortunate and to be able to manage things like that personally not just give it to a charity like most philanthropists do. That would be a mark that I would like to leave and a lesson for my children...
Great sentiments Razor, seriously very commendable, most hardened traders aren't renowned for their humanitarian qualities!
  • #38
  • May 13, 2010 3:36am May 13, 2010 3:36am
Quoting EurTrender
Hi All,


I have been consistent in my trading grinding out profits with my strategy. But I have been inconsistent for a VERY loooong time before this. I am considering leaving my ridiculously stressful job to become a full time trader. What's holding me back is YEARS of failures in this market as I've been learning to become consistently profitable.

My question is to you, those few who KNOW you are there, you made it, you found your edge, you are consistent, you are trading a big chunk of change confident, that you can keep doing this month...
I'll just respond to a couple of points you raise, which I'm not sure have been covered in the other responses so far:

1) Your words suggest you are worried about the years of failure, almost as if this presents a risk to your probability of success in the future. On the contrary, if you can take some practical and tangible lessons from your failures and make sure that learning is embedded in your current and future trading activities then you are likely to be a better trader for having "failed" in the first place. In hindsight it is easier to see and rationalise these issues, but I am pretty sure that being willing to be honest with myself and learning from set-back after set-back made a big difference for me.

2) As much as I believe an ideal situation is to keep your day job and "act" as a full time trader for a few years before giving away your day job, it is also true that rarely in life are we 100% prepared for the "next move" we make. I suggest that this is because there is a good amount of learning that can only be realised once you are in "the job" and fully accountable for what you are doing. I'm not suggesting that you should just throw away your job and head into the market full time (a recipe for disaster in most cases) but I do suggest that you might only ever feel as much as 90% ready for full time trading - the last 10% can only be gained once you are exposed to the reality of your new job and the implications of what that means for you and your family.

Of course the big questions remain about the motivation behind wanting to trade full time and all that goes with it, but I see others have done a good job at attempting to cover these questions so no replication from me here...

All the best.
  • #39
  • May 14, 2010 8:07pm May 14, 2010 8:07pm
"For anyone who is looking for the Holy Grail, here it is.....make sure your winners are bigger than your losers (unless you can hit winners 90% of the time) It took me 8 years before this rang home. Eight....gees."

HERE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Start with the concept and you build your system. !!!!!!
It only took me 4.5 years!. PRICELESS INFO!
  • #40
  • Last Post: May 16, 2010 1:11pm May 16, 2010 1:11pm
Dont quit your job.

Once you can preserve your capital for a time period equal to the number of years you tried and failed, well you will not be asking whether you should or shouldn't. I bet you will be lounging somewhere, placing your pending orders and enjoying your beers.

You will know when you get there on your own, no one else can decide for you.
Just by starting this thread you have made your decision.
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