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The Dance

  • #1,021
  • May 11, 2010 6:19pm May 11, 2010 6:19pm
Quoting artov
Thanks Twee! Billbss and Indrek, well done

To those who didn't know, when I started trading, I was a member of his private group. No one in the group ever made money trading his scalping systems, only the big man himself. Back in those days he was operating under the ExpatXXX name.

In that private group I made some friends. Two of them (cjd & deang) got scammed for a significant amount of money. To prevent that more people lose their hard-earned money we need to keep this place clean.
Maybe herein lies the difference. eclayf has said quite openly in the chat room that he was himself still in learning stage on the system, and has to my knowledge never made any outlandish claims as Expat and edge did.

No issues with what Twee has done, I guess his job is hard enough as it is. Agree with Paulus, tho'.
  • #1,022
  • May 11, 2010 7:05pm May 11, 2010 7:05pm
Err..what happen??

Sonic
  • #1,023
  • May 11, 2010 7:05pm May 11, 2010 7:05pm
Quoting Twee
Hi Folks, I'm sorry to report that eclayf has been banned....
So you have taken into account some people's words without any hard evidence? I do not follow "the dance" method, however I was impressed by the desire eclayf showed yet in his opening post to share knowledge and cut spammers' BS. You don't need to be around very long to realize that he's one of the very few around here with exactly that desire. Did you even read what he had written throughout the thread before you ban him and trash it?

So please, go back, read his first post, then think again - you just banned someone from the site, because some people were trying to accuse him of something without proof and he banned them so they don't spam his thread. Just like he warned he will do to such people. And before you start with "why would you defend him" - I do not. I simply put myself in his shoes for a moment - being accused of something like that. You should really try it - each coin has two sides, traders should know very well.

So, what can I say. Well done, that is some great management model.

P.S. Come on, track my IP now. Save yourself the effort - it does come from where my profile says I am from. Still, after what I witnessed here I won't even be surprised if I get up tomorrow and find myself banned.

Are you sure this site is not based in North Korea, Iran or some other place like that? This is disgusting.
  • #1,024
  • May 11, 2010 7:20pm May 11, 2010 7:20pm
The only option that I see is If Clay will prove that he is Clay. The way is to show to FF authorities his SS number Or Id number than his identity can be verified.
  • #1,025
  • May 11, 2010 7:24pm May 11, 2010 7:24pm
Quoting Setebos
So you have taken into account some people's words without any hard evidence? I do not follow "the dance" method, however I was impressed by the desire eclayf showed yet in his opening post to share knowledge and cut spammers' BS. You don't need to be around very long to realize that he's one of the very few around here with exactly that desire. Did you even read what he had written throughout the thread before you ban him and trash it?

So please, go back, read his first post, then think again - you just banned someone from the site, because...
I agree with that .
Twee , please go back all pages and read every his post to see if he's scammer or not, you can't ban a member just because you listend to ideas from someone and didn't have any evidence .
If he's a Scammer , so it's very easy for him to hide his ip . I known that because I'm administrator of a Socks5 Service. You can use VPN , Socks Server , Proxy Server , SSH socks5 ...ect to hide your IP with 5-10$ lol.
Clay has TOLD for everyone in previous pages that if anyone want to talk with him , just call to him .....You should ask Clay for more information about himself before do this banning
Regards
  • #1,026
  • May 11, 2010 7:27pm May 11, 2010 7:27pm
Quoting Piotr1
The only option that I see is If Clay will prove that he is Clay. The way is to show to FF authorities his SS number Or Id number than his identity can be verified.
Clay was banned by Twee before he can do anything to be verified lol
  • #1,027
  • May 11, 2010 7:52pm May 11, 2010 7:52pm
I don't think all due care was given to establishing eclayf's identity before banning him...

I'm kinda new at forex but I realise the dance IS a profitable system and I haven't read in any of the Dance posts anything likely to suggest that that clay is a scammer.

Either way, only a lazy and greedy fool would give him/her hard earned money to a stranger to trade for him...it's as simple as that.

Anyhoo...if the issue of banning remains unchanged, i'll be hitting the recycle bin to read the thread...Lot's of good lessons lie in there.

Thx
  • #1,028
  • May 11, 2010 8:13pm May 11, 2010 8:13pm
Quoting 3xtrader
I don't think all due care was given to establishing eclayf's identity...
Hope stupid guys that said that they have given him funds to trade can give FF some evidence lol , no account statement , no log of chat or anything else like that .....in the summary, SO CLAY HAS BEEN BANNED BECAUSE OF.....NOTHING lol =))
  • #1,029
  • May 11, 2010 8:20pm May 11, 2010 8:20pm
Quoting Piotr1
The only option that I see is If Clay will prove that he is Clay. The way is to show to FF authorities his SS number Or Id number than his identity can be verified.
I hope he does
  • #1,030
  • May 11, 2010 9:11pm May 11, 2010 9:11pm
WOW! I've been trying to learn FX and been demo trading for almost 5 years and I finally find somebody who actually tries to help people like me and has obviously put a TON of time into this thread and helping people...and he gets banned with no proof??? FF definitely has the best FX Forum on the internet, but I have to say this is garbage. Do the proper research and if so...ban him, but I HIGHLY doubt Clarence Ferrell needs to be banned! Disappointing...
  • #1,031
  • May 11, 2010 10:48pm May 11, 2010 10:48pm
Quoting SMcGuire45
WOW! I've been trying to learn FX and been demo trading for almost 5 years and I finally find somebody who actually tries to help people like me and has obviously put a TON of time into this thread and helping people...and he gets banned with no proof??? FF definitely has the best FX Forum on the internet, but I have to say this is garbage. Do the proper research and if so...ban him, but I HIGHLY doubt Clarence Ferrell needs to be banned! Disappointing...
All members that are trading The Dance disappointing too ....
All people like to avoid SCAMMER , but they like to keep GOOD TRADER staying long time with FF too.....hope FF staff can look for the best way for this solution
Regards
  • #1,032
  • May 11, 2010 11:47pm May 11, 2010 11:47pm
Quoting SMcGuire45
WOW! I've been trying to learn FX and been demo trading for almost 5 years and I finally find somebody who actually tries to help people like me and has obviously put a TON of time into this thread and helping people...and he gets banned with no proof??? FF definitely has the best FX Forum on the internet, but I have to say this is garbage. Do the proper research and if so...ban him, but I HIGHLY doubt Clarence Ferrell needs to be banned! Disappointing...

Then the simple solution is for Clarence Ferrell to contact Twee and arrange to meet with another member trusted by Twee who lives in close proximity to eclayf. Proof of identity is not a difficult matter - notarized documents might also be used.
  • #1,033
  • May 12, 2010 12:49am May 12, 2010 12:49am
Courious...... over here in the UK, we have a phrase and a law that states 'Innocent until proven guilty'. I guess the big ol' United States, the country of freedom and liberty, doesn't have that and is actualy free from liberty.

Twee, I have never met you, nor am I likely too, however with the volume of members that you have here, do you not beleive that there will be similarities in peoples style of writtings, particularly so from people that are coming from a passionate or philosiphical background?

These backgrounds are somewhat unfamilar to a number of other traders in here and the writtings can often be confused as identical, such as twins looking identical, but their partents being able to easily identify them seperately.

How has it come to pass that he has been banned with no proof? How is it now down to him to prove his innocence? and being frank here (thats metaphorically, don't go banning me for using two names), why should he bother. It's a forum! There are plenty more! Why should he now run around try to resolve false accusations against his name for the sake of a forum.

This is the second thread now where I can see solidarity in the owner of the thread and the traders that follow it, where the originator of the thread has now been pushed away/banned from the forums.

At the worse case scenario, and I don't know if this is something even I would agree to do, but why don't you just stick a warning on opening threads, stating that people shouldn't put money into systems and that way everyone can consider themselved warned.

It's simple astounding! I refer you back to my earlier comment about innocent until proven guilty.

Regards

Lee
  • #1,034
  • May 12, 2010 12:50am May 12, 2010 12:50am
Twee, i'm afraid that you have just openly confessed that due process has not been followed here.

I appreciate that you have a tough job to weed out the scammers but surely you should give a man the opportunity to prove himself before you draw the axe?

I don't wish to sound like i'm telling you how to do your job but I cannot see where you have gathered sufficient proof here to do what you have done. Life will go on, those of us who know his strategy is a winner will continue to win but the man himself has been taken from us and he was the one we were learning most from.

I don't feel like we've been saved from a scammer, I don't feel that we've been told anything. What does that say about what has happened here?
  • #1,035
  • Edited 1:13am May 12, 2010 1:00am | Edited 1:13am
I appreciate that some will have considered this end result a success and for thier own reasons will be proud of themselves.

That's their views and their opinions.

All I see that's happened is that once more a good teacher of the forums, and in my opinion and genuine all round nice guy, has been banned from the site, therefore depriving many new players (and old) of what is generaly considered to be a good system and a good teacher.

Have you protected anyone..... not really, if there were people here who were going to give Clay (not that I beleive he was ever going to ask) their life's earnings, then they WILL find someone else to give it too.

Yes, as someone pointed out earlier, most of us are Noobs, newbies..... you know, those types of people that have no idea, are easily misled etc etc, but weren't you all once? Everyone starts somewhere.... and for those that sit there and state that they would never have been stupid enough to give someone a ton of money, then at least give others the curtisy of having that much about themselves too.

And I keep reading in other threads that 'newbies' need to be protected from scammers? How is that? Just because we are new to FX it doesn't mean that we are stupid. If you are buying a new home for the first time, that doesn't mean you need special protection from the agents or the sellers, if you are buying a new car for the first time, it doesn't mean you need special protection........

This has all come about because someone people were sill enough to hand over lots of cash to someone they didn't really know. Did they put it in a traders account so that it could be traded and not taken.... who knows, either way, they gave a lot of money to someone they didnt know.

So, I guess we are being protected from someone elses ........... indescretions.....
  • #1,036
  • May 12, 2010 1:03am May 12, 2010 1:03am
Well FF obviously thought there was something fishy about what has been happening, didnt they?

I have been on here a long time, and seen this type of thing too many times to recall.

99% of people on here are good, 1% are scammers, simple as that.

Shinny

Quoting leemonk
Define contact!

If I have seen someones posts in another thread that I thought was pointless, niggly or just plain rude then I may very well put them on my ignore list.

I have had no 'contact' with them at this stage, all I know is that I do not wish to see or read their comments again.

There are enough people in this forum that want to help others and there are enough threads, some successful, some not that are started by these types of people and as soon as someone starts a thread like this and then tells other traders that you do not have...
Nobody can be told what The Matrix is. You'll have to see it yourself.
  • #1,037
  • May 12, 2010 1:32am May 12, 2010 1:32am
Twee was stuck between a rock and a hard place the devil and the deep blue sea what ever you want to call it.

dammed if he did dammed if he didnt...BUT

In the uk we are innocent untill proven guilty a simple solution would be to have the ban option for flagerant offeders but just put a simple declaration on the front page of FF where every one can see it

' We take no responsibilty etc etc etc'

Every one trading here is over 18 old enough to fight in a war old enough to vote.... some times we have to take responsibility for our own actions my heart goes out to the guys that lost thier money but if he made you money would we then forgive the fact that he came to FF with a view of getting a few backers...

Its a difficult one but I think perhaps a temp ban may of been in order whilst Twee investigated further

P
  • #1,038
  • Edited 2:42am May 12, 2010 1:38am | Edited 2:42am
Quoting Paulus
Twee was stuck between a rock and a hard place the devil and the deep blue sea what ever you want to call it.

dammed if he did dammed if he didnt...BUT


P
Surely having a similar writing style as a known scammer isn't enough proof though?

I don't have any problem with people being investigated but there is no evidence of a proper investigation here.
  • #1,039
  • May 12, 2010 2:11am May 12, 2010 2:11am
Though I'm a complete newbie here and don't know all the story and who is guilty or not, but this situation is a bit strange. Judging only by this thread, I don't understand how such person as eclayf did something, that deserves a ban here. I haven't noticed any post by him, which in any way contained some sort of scam. I'm not making any conclusions, just my personal thought. Didn't even expect, that this would happen, especially after my first posts here...
  • #1,040
  • May 12, 2010 2:26am May 12, 2010 2:26am
I thought the days of verdict and punishment without evidence all but disappeared.
I was wrong.
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