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Trainee Trader job?

  • #41
  • Apr 21, 2010 9:12am Apr 21, 2010 9:12am
hi thinkman,
where are you in NI?
What is your email

Maybe we can share ideas.
  • #42
  • Apr 21, 2010 8:41pm Apr 21, 2010 8:41pm
Quoting thinkman
Hi, first of all I'd just like to say a big thank you to everyone for their feedback on this thread, very much appreciated. Also thanks for pointing out about Wall Street Warriors - I've been glued to it! and it hasn't put me off! I've been doing quite a bit of research into various job opportunities, had my CV rewritten, and I think it might be quite difficult to get into a bank with no financial degree etc. I have discovered a few prop houses namely: Savi Trading, Amplify Trading, OSTC & Global Trading Community....
Schneider is a big arcade style prop house and they recruit pretty often because so many people burn out. They test you with a quickfire maths test and an interview.

I think there are better options than prop houses because so many people drop out of it, also with a prop job they might require you to trade your own money.
The greatest force on earth is compound interest.
  • #43
  • May 9, 2010 9:58am May 9, 2010 9:58am
I'll add my two cents to this forum as well. It's true you can't put a price on time or lifestyle. I have met a few prop traders working in the banks, most that you will meet have been doing for quite a while, probably all they have ever done. The guys I met in Singapore were making about 200-300, bonuses and all, so, not every bank prop traders is making the seven figure income. Also, from what I observed, many were old enough that when they started out, the whole concept of trading independently from a screen wasn't even in the realm technological possibility as it is today. Furthermore, most are quite elitist and wouldn't succeed without the inside flow information they've been brought up with, the company badge, and god forbid they would have to risk their own money. Most just couldn't imagine being independent nor would they have the hardened determination and skill the indy trader develops going up alone and self-taught, taking the hits and learning lessons the hard way.

As for Raw Intelligence. Well, that isn't necessary either. More important is the white shoe education or upbringing, the connections, etc. One of my classmates from my undergraduate has a basic degree in history, nothing special in the way of marks, no math skills to speak of, and today he is an MD with DB in derivatives sales and trading. What he has is a remarkable ability to schmooz and manipulate and to dig the knife in when he needs to. When you get into the higher positions it's all about status and image. A general intelligence in the science of greed is about the only truth you need to fully understand and study. Nobody cares if you add two plus two.

The smartest traders, I mean the really brilliant guys I did meet were mostly the Market Makers and the OTC options traders. And there aren't many of them, and they get paid. If you want to go into funds management, it will again come down to who you know and how well you look and act the part.

The reality is that any home based independent trader can make as much as any bank prop trader if they have three things. One, a well defined game, that is, they know what they trade and what their setup is. It's all about focus. If you focus in and you have a probabilistic winning edge there is nothing to stop you but you. Supposing, you have the proper technology to access a fair market, which excludes each and every online broker in existence, then two, you need the psychological discipline to adhere with absolute precision to your plan. If you can't do this, the edge and all the work you have done to develop it is meaningless. This is the one and only thing that separates the millionaire traders from the rest. If you have the focus, the edge, and the psychological ability, and if you understand what compound growth and expectancy will do for it, you can have all the money you want. If you are looking for power and prestige or some other measure of success, if you want to dawn the suit and go into the highrise and act like a big shot, working from a pc at your home office obviously won't get you this. As for me, I'll take the money and the time and I'll be sharpening my skis everyday next season....

Quoting Sim
Sorta strange...100% repetitively of little money + independence any day
  • #44
  • May 9, 2010 10:36am May 9, 2010 10:36am
I love the art of trading, I study the markets very intensely and it took some time for me to "figure out" the FX markets. I wouldn't have learned anything had I went to work for a firm. They would have probably used the same tired rules and analysis. Maybe I would have spent a year learning how to program FX strategies into a piece of software which has nothing to do with trading; or possibly I could have spent a couple of years learning how to speak intelligently about various economic reports....who knows. Personally, I would advise you to learn on your own and if you were meant to do it you will succeed and it will ultimately reflect in your P&L. I get a personal satisfaction from figuring things out on my own.....but that's me. It would be better if you can a competent mentor.....unfortunately I did not have that as an option.
  • #45
  • May 9, 2010 10:40am May 9, 2010 10:40am
Quoting Syxf
If you are looking for power and prestige or some other measure of success, if you want to dawn the suit and go into the highrise and act like a big shot, working from a pc at your home office obviously won't get you this. As for me, I'll take the money and the time and I'll be sharpening my skis everyday next season....

Wow....excellent post!
  • #46
  • May 9, 2010 7:12pm May 9, 2010 7:12pm
IF you are good in trading, then don't bother looking for a job. You should start making money of whatever little money you have. As you grow, you have a record.

Now, network. Find friends, acquaintances, coworkers, and their friends. Any and everyone wants to invest into someone/fund to make their money grow, but its hard to find the right person/fund. Hence, if you know them personally, and they know you personally, and they know of your trading game...start managing their money. Sign a few contracts, and away you go. That's all you need initially, a few clients, 3-4.

If you made these 3-4 money, they have more friends, whom from word-of-mouth they will mention an opportunity to invest, and your fund can now grow. That's the only way to grow. Most hedges have started out this way, just on a little bigger scale, and some even at this scale. Anyone, appreciates a person who they trust and can invest in to grow their money. Heck, I have 10's of people lined up which can easily give me a overall portfolio value of $1mill+, just lacking the consistency.

Only benefit I see from a trading job is the interaction of other traders with bigger pockets that if you do get successful as a trader, you may want to ask these people to invest. Again, how most funds actually start.

Now if you want to be those 'analysts' who mind you, are mostly not traders, you just need a degree. You can be a theorist, analyst, commentator, what have you...but know this, they are very different from actual traders. You may even call most of them 'failed traders'.

  • #47
  • May 9, 2010 11:58pm May 9, 2010 11:58pm
Quoting traderjai_inhi
In season 2 they follow a fresh grad from some uni in NYC (I think it is NYU Stern), anyways, this moron knows NOTHING about trading and was accepted...
I hated that girl. The only reason they even gave her a position at FXCM is because the job she got had nothing to do with accuracy or effectiveness. She didn't actually have to put anything on the line, they never expected anything from her, so she got to keep on skating.

But Brett...there's someone who knows what's up.

PS, If anyone knows of any place like SMB here in DF/W, let me know. I need to go beat down their door.
  • #48
  • May 10, 2010 12:23am May 10, 2010 12:23am
Oh, you and me both. What a stupid slunt. All those opportunities... still wonder what she is doing now... probably working the corner of wall and broad.

Brett was pretty hard charging, I liked his style. Some of the stuff seemed a bit outlandish. Like the time he got the heli just to get him to the airport on time. Im sure he could have had a private jet on standby if he missed his flight. The Aegis website looks pretty basic though, no thrills http://www.aegiscapitalgroup.com/index.php Wonder what happened to the sndk guys. They pretty much got all their investors in at the top. Didnt sound like they had much of an exit plan.

Ever see the first season? That tool Sykes, I still laugh everytime i read about him. Didnt really strike me as anything special, plus he treated his Mom like crap. Loser. But the Russian, Alex and Guy really had their stuff together. and boy was Sandra smoking hot, love to do a couple deals with her

Looks like they are coming out with a new season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Warriors
  • #49
  • May 10, 2010 12:27am May 10, 2010 12:27am
Quoting stinger88
I've worked at a proprietary trading firm in Canada for about 12 months....

Is this 'the' stinger 88?
  • #50
  • May 10, 2010 12:51am May 10, 2010 12:51am
Quoting cinex

I got that job, for the first 3 months i must prove that i can handle it, that is a training, althoug in that three months I'll be trading real money also but I won't be actually able to name myself as trader for at least 7-8 months, if i'll be there still of course , but i believe so
I'll be trading futures on low liquidity markets on Euronext LIFFE, Eurex, CBOT etc, strategy provided naturally, and of course it is not an investment banks type of trader position, dont reaaly know many details yet, but i like it already :-)
H cinex
Are you refering ostc company?
  • #51
  • May 10, 2010 1:40am May 10, 2010 1:40am
thinkman,

I was in your position about two to three years back and was 24 then. Here is what I have learned:

1) First is location, as many firms located in financial centers. I live around Chicago area and believe me there are a lot less postings than NY for example.

2) Usually not what you know but who you know, networking is probably the biggest plus. As I did not know anyone this wasn't an option for me.

3) Name of the school counts, most of the time will get you an interview if you went to an expensive school. I did not have that so not an option.

4) Age is not your friend at this point as most want fresh out of college kids, without all the clutter and no trading experience. I guess they think it is hard to teach old dog new tricks. Although there is still hope.

5) Search, search, search there are places where you will find firm directories, contact persons and so on, although not so easy to find most of the time.

6) Once you do get that interview don't be surprised by some tests as firms give you that right away without any warning. Research the firm you are going to and most of the test logic you will find online.

Finally let's say you go through interviews and get an offer, most of the time it will be a measly salary + what profits you make for the firm %. In other words you might have barely enough money to get by before you become profitable. In my case they gave me 17k usd salary + profits, in which they mentioned most traders make nothing in their first year but just that salary (so 17k a year).

I passed the opportunity as at that time could not afford such a salary change (plus working nights) and moved into learning to trade from home. Still learning, but hey it is better to trade and learn yourself than give up. You will find plenty systems here in this forum so just start there.
  • #52
  • Jun 11, 2010 1:12pm Jun 11, 2010 1:12pm
Quoting Syxf
The reality is that any home based independent trader can make as much as any bank prop trader if they have three things....
I think you'll find that the millionaire traders started with a million pounds.
Capitalization. The elephant in the (trading) room.
  • #53
  • Jun 11, 2010 1:14pm Jun 11, 2010 1:14pm
Quoting Interceptor
I think you'll find that the millionaire traders started with a million pounds.
Capitalization. The elephant in the (trading) room.
False,,there are day traders who have multiplied small accounts to a mil+
  • #54
  • Jun 11, 2010 3:27pm Jun 11, 2010 3:27pm
Quoting Sim
False,,there are day traders who have multiplied small accounts to a mil+
Firstly, define 'small account'.
Secondly, who are they?
  • #55
  • Jun 11, 2010 4:21pm Jun 11, 2010 4:21pm
Quoting Interceptor
Firstly, define 'small account'.
Secondly, who are they?
Chuck Norris
  • #56
  • Jun 11, 2010 4:35pm Jun 11, 2010 4:35pm
lmao @ chuck norris

size 100-200...consistent enough to rarely have a losing day, experts at day trading...say avg day i 5% return,,you do the math for a few months/years
  • #57
  • Jun 11, 2010 10:34pm Jun 11, 2010 10:34pm
No education is required. Prop firms such as Swift Trade (they have an office in London) and Marex, also in London (not sure if they still hire new traders), will give you 10k account and let you trade for about 4 - 6 months. Swift Trade trades only stocks, Marex trades everything. Build a nice trading record, and it will become your pass to any place you want. Big dogs don't want your education, they want your skills to take money and multiply them. I got landed a nice job as a forex trader for a firm in my city simply by walking into the manager's office and showing him my trading record on my fxcm trading account, simple as that. (due to family matters had to quit, very unfortunately)
Trax Tibidax Tibidox...
  • #58
  • Jul 23, 2010 12:22pm Jul 23, 2010 12:22pm
Quoting masterpiecefx
No education is required. Prop firms such as Swift Trade (they have an office in London) and Marex, also in London (not sure if they still hire new traders), will give you 10k account and let you trade for about 4 - 6 months. Swift Trade trades only stocks, Marex trades everything. Build a nice trading record, and it will become your pass to any place you want. Big dogs don't want your education, they want your skills to take money and multiply them. I got landed a nice job as a forex trader for a firm in my city simply by walking into the manager's...
All good posts guys, I really enjoyed reading this.

Masterpiece are you from London? Would be nice if you could go into more depth on this, it sounds great.

I've searched around a lot in Liverpool for such jobs because I'm trying to keep down my cost of living by not moving out to London, It seems the only trading related job offers here though are people trying to sell courses or offer free training if you set up an account with the people they want, not even a proper job offer in other words.

I'm just going take any job for now that offers me the best £/hr and then do the trading on my own time.
The greatest force on earth is compound interest.
  • #59
  • Jul 24, 2010 12:56am Jul 24, 2010 12:56am
Quoting sebastionay
All good posts guys, I really enjoyed reading this.

I've searched around a lot in Liverpool for such jobs because I'm trying to keep down my cost of living by not moving out to London, It seems the only trading related job offers here though are people trying to sell courses or offer free training if you set up an account with the people they want, not even a proper job offer in other words.

I'm just going take any job for now that offers me the best £/hr and then do the trading on my own time.
Can you trade for living? If you cannot I don't think anyone will hire you as a trader.
  • #60
  • Oct 13, 2010 9:45am Oct 13, 2010 9:45am
Quoting sebastionay
All good posts guys, I really enjoyed reading this.

Masterpiece are you from London? Would be nice if you could go into more depth on this, it sounds great.

I've searched around a lot in Liverpool for such jobs because I'm trying to keep down my cost of living by not moving out to London, It seems the only trading related job offers here though are people trying to sell courses or offer free training if you set up an account with the people they want, not even a proper job offer in other words.

I'm just going take any job for now that offers...
Sorry for not replying sooner, had to be away from my comp for a while. I'm from Toronto, Canada, so no, sorry, I don't know anything about Liverpool trading firms. But chances are that Swift Trade has its office there, Swift Trade is everywhere. And yes, they do hire new traders, those who never traded before, and let you trade for about 4-6 months, if you're not improving during this time, they will let you go. Not the best place to be, but its an excellent start to a career.
Trax Tibidax Tibidox...
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