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Technical Analysis Fallacy

  • #14,341
  • Apr 14, 2010 8:09am Apr 14, 2010 8:09am
Quoting Gro
Hi all
My pictures shows difference on an hourly chart and five-minute chart, one broker (50pips!).
Verdikt broker "annulment of the contested period (profit and loss).
It is also an "elegant way" how to cancel profit and keep the loss ... and insoluble.

Regards
I saw a 500 pip spike from my broker only recently on the DOW but nothing else showed it. Even after refreshing my chart and a few days later it was still there so I can only assume it was valid?
  • #14,342
  • Apr 14, 2010 8:13am Apr 14, 2010 8:13am
Quoting auxesis
Some quick pips off the news and time for more coffee.........

What I noticed, call me crazy, I'd click, opening a buy or sell box in opposition to my book and just about the time I'd click the submit button price would jerk against me, after a while I'd feint a transaction and get the same response. Coincidence?

fwiw,
Same observation here. I suppose if it's within a range and bar (i.e. it doesn't break a high or low within the bar - say 1 min) then it can go undetected.
  • #14,343
  • Apr 14, 2010 8:14am Apr 14, 2010 8:14am
Quoting Zoran
I saw a 500 pip spike from my broker only recently on the DOW but nothing else showed it. Even after refreshing my chart and a few days later it was still there so I can only assume it was valid?
for me, one broker and diference E/$ hourly candle other ranges than 5minutes chart ranges?
  • #14,344
  • Apr 14, 2010 8:27am Apr 14, 2010 8:27am
Quoting Sauron
Of course they can quote any price they like, it shouldn't even be in the contract!!!
But the same broker can't quote different prices for different traders in the same time, i.e. your chart has a spike which hunted your stop and your friend with the same broker has no spike. Even the fake data must be consistent.
Yes, I completely agrre with you. But what fti explained looks like they are trying to keep him out of the market. In my contract there is a statement " The broker XYZ is obliged to provide the client with PROPER, TIMELY and FAIR execution"( I'm qouting from memory, but I think the words in capital letters are the right ones) I do think that what fti mentioned is direct violation to the above statement. Problem is how to make them pay for such an abuse. Maybe fti will find a way, I certainly hope so.

Misquoting, stop hunts, and other broker tricks are manageable,it's part of "know the enemy" thing, but if they keep you out of the market you can't make up for that with your trading style, simply because there is no trading.

I look at 3 platforms(1 of my broker and 2 of other brokers) when I trade. That's because I want to compare their quotes. Most of the time they differ by 1-3 pips, the only times they diverge(that doesn't happen regularly) is on Fridays close and Mondays open. One broker closes ,let's say, 10-25 pips above the other. Sometimes they open at different prices and I don't trade untill they normalise.
  • #14,345
  • Apr 14, 2010 8:34am Apr 14, 2010 8:34am
Quoting fti
Hi ALL,
Just to inform.
I am stopping electronic internet forex bucketshops trading for spot interbank instead.
This is because everytime the markets gets active. My platforms freezes up(esp OANDA) until run is over( which is like at least 30 to 50 pips).But prices are available in spot. I am incline to think that they have modules in their system that tracks customers blotters and work hostile against customers. Shameful scam![color=red]
[b]Too...
FTI
Thanks for the update and warning! I had the a stellar week trading with a "scout" and "rescue". I find your way less stressful than my former scalping methods.

Thank you again for sharing so much!
  • #14,346
  • Apr 14, 2010 8:43am Apr 14, 2010 8:43am
Quoting auxesis
[...]

but I know brokers tract individual positions, had a buddy once start moving his orders and stops (large) all over the board one night, in and out of range, for a long period of time, until his phone rang, dealing desk wanted to know what he was doing.

[...]

Tis a nuisance if correct, same like shading and other price manipulations, part of the game, but when your size gets big enough these start cutting into your overall profitability, and it's time to move into the big leagues.

fwiw,
Hi Auxesis,

yeah I'm sure you are right: Brokers do track your positions if they will reach a predefined volume. And from my opinion you ar also right, that you have to take all these "tricks" into account when you are doing your trade statistics or predictions of future profitability/ROI.

But let me comne back to the first point: Tracking of individual positions.
I know (at least for most MT4 brokers) that they do not track any positions below a certain volume. These mini positions are managed in a so called sandbox, with out any manual or automated Dealing Desk actions. In this sandbox (for most borkers this Sandbox limit is below 2 or 3 lots) your trades are matched directly without delay, requote or major slipagge against other pending orders. You can test this limits out by logging the execution times for different sized orders for ~100 or 150 trades in different market situations.
After you have determined if your broker is using such a sandbox and what the relevabt thresholds/parameters are, you can trade in a perfect way most probably without bad tricks against you.

Now there is only one question:
How can i generate my living from trading with such small trading positions????
But i'm sure you'll find a solution :-)

CU,
MaMood
  • #14,347
  • Apr 14, 2010 8:55am Apr 14, 2010 8:55am
Quoting MaMood
Hi Auxesis,

yeah I'm sure you are right: Brokers do track your positions if they will reach a predefined volume. And from my opinion you ar also right, that you have to take all these "tricks" into account when you are doing your trade statistics or predictions of future profitability/ROI.

But let me comne back to the first point: Tracking of individual positions.
I know (at least for most MT4 brokers) that they do not track any positions below a certain volume. These mini positions are managed in a so called sandbox, with out any manual or...
Please all
Not write a solution to this problem in threads.
My opinion.
  • #14,348
  • Apr 14, 2010 9:18am Apr 14, 2010 9:18am
Quoting Gro
Please all
Not write a solution to this problem in threads.
My opinion.

Of course not !
  • #14,349
  • Apr 14, 2010 9:34am Apr 14, 2010 9:34am
Quoting auxesis
Some quick pips off the news and time for more coffee.........

What I noticed, call me crazy, I'd click, opening a buy or sell box in opposition to my book and just about the time I'd click the submit button price would jerk against me, after a while I'd feint a transaction and get the same response....
Let's pause the assumptions of what broker can and cannot do unless you work for one or you are a trading platfrom programmer. Actually one MT4 programmer used to hang out in trading forums.. I believe his nick was Slava or Slawa, haven't seen him for years now.

I have seen a broker reduce leverage without a warning to force a margin call. In 99% cases people just brag about brokers in forums without even bothering to contact their support line and actually getting support on their issue.

Anyway, I believe you start to see what you want to see. It's like broker gunning for your stops on a demo, lol. Sometimes the feeling is there.. hehe.

If you get disconnected, call. End.

PS - haven't traded at all this week. The euro gap left an uneasy feel. Looks like the market is confused, too.
  • #14,350
  • Apr 14, 2010 9:37am Apr 14, 2010 9:37am
Quoting MaMood
Hi Auxesis,



Now there is only one question:
How can i generate my living from trading with such small trading positions????
But i'm sure you'll find a solution :-)

CU,
MaMood
Mamood,

My first mentor was at one time a professional blackjack player, today the man can not walk into a casino without the camera's spotting him. After mastering the game, his major quest was to play at the tables without being noticed by his betting, there are times to be in the game, and times when not. When you are obviously down sizing or pulling out of the action when the count is against you, your tell is up and they know you are counting.

So the trick is to play under the radar, profitably. Imho, much of that mindset is involved in Forex brokers, if you bleed them they take notice, depending on the professionalism of the broker is how they deal with you. If your scalping them against their mechanics they will show you the door, if your a good trader they will move your off the grid, specially with size, but you'll be trading like the big boys, that instantaneous filling and perks will be gone as they expect most of the sandbox to hang themselves, tis why the counter party to the sandbox is not so bad.

fwiw,
  • #14,351
  • Apr 14, 2010 9:58am Apr 14, 2010 9:58am
Alright guys, I went back to dig up an article I read long ago. It explains how spread betting works, some of the answers come from the spread betting company itself. Spread betting model and bucket shop model are the same.

Here's the link
http://www.financial-spread-betting....ing-hedge.html

The thing is, bucket shops have no problem with you being profitable, they will just handle you differently.

And here is a link to some answers to questions asked by potential customers by Capital Spread, who also operate the a popular currenex forex platform.

http://www.financial-spread-betting....market-uk.html
  • #14,352
  • Apr 14, 2010 10:24am Apr 14, 2010 10:24am
Quoting auxesis
Mamood,

My first mentor was at one time a professional blackjack player, today the man can not walk into a casino without the camera's spotting him. After mastering the game, his major quest was to play at the tables without being noticed by his betting, there are times to be in the game, and times when not. When you are obviously down sizing or pulling out of the action when the count is against you, your tell is up and they know you are counting.

So the trick is to play under the radar, profitably. Imho, much of that mindset is involved in...
Hi Auxesis,

You are spot on, as always!
Yeah, that's exactly my experience.
Especially the last sentence is relevant to me.
Not only the brokers can take advantage of the 95% losers ratio inside the sandbox ;-)

CU,
MaMood
  • #14,353
  • Apr 14, 2010 10:54am Apr 14, 2010 10:54am
Happy trading friends.
Great discussion with art insertions today, thank you for that

One question of the humble beginner if i can...: For more than the last 3month i have still the same equity. I trade nearly 1year... Maybe i am too careful or i dont know...
Do you have some such experience from the past?
regards
  • #14,354
  • Apr 14, 2010 11:00am Apr 14, 2010 11:00am
Quoting MaMood
Now there is only one question:
How can i generate my living from trading with such small trading positions????
But i'm sure you'll find a solution :-)

Live somewhere with very low cost of living!

Nice thread guys!
  • #14,355
  • Apr 14, 2010 12:38pm Apr 14, 2010 12:38pm
Quoting MaMood
Aaaah - TAF goes Facebook now ...

Seems to be only a question of time, when there are trade calls on Twitter ;-)

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=381316788611
  • #14,356
  • Apr 14, 2010 12:44pm Apr 14, 2010 12:44pm
Quoting fti

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=381316788611
Hi fti,

a really great video.
  • #14,357
  • Apr 14, 2010 1:36pm Apr 14, 2010 1:36pm
Quoting MaMood
Hi Auxesis,

You are spot on, as always!
Yeah, that's exactly my experience.
Especially the last sentence is relevant to me.
Not only the brokers can take advantage of the 95% losers ratio inside the sandbox ;-)

CU,
MaMood
Don't know if I'm right or wrong, just my own experience. Have been taken off instant fills and ran through manual dealing desks in the past. One of the reasons I like Oanda, although lately seem to have problems, to their credit yesterday I installed a new router, dumped Java cache, and all cookie/files and connectivity has improved.

But there's alot more than just fills and quotes that are important when picking a broker, accessibility to funds, withdrawal timeliness, use to concern myself with interests paid on the account, hahahahahah

And overall trusts....... I remember when Refco went down, they shared an address with FXCM, I pulled my funds from FXCM for a time to make sure the dust settled without problems.

All brokers have issues....

fwiw.
  • #14,358
  • Edited 2:17pm Apr 14, 2010 1:44pm | Edited 2:17pm
Hi again,

ok it's basic stuff, but once again DarkStar has given a good summary 4 days ago about Dealers and Marlet makers work. You can find it here:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=512

Cu,
MaMood

p.s.: And once again an interesting read. It could be found in the book "Trading & Exchanges - Market Microstructure for Partitioners" by Larry Harris. Please read Part IV (page 277 ff).
http://books.google.de/books?id=Rd9h...page&q&f=false
  • #14,359
  • Apr 14, 2010 4:01pm Apr 14, 2010 4:01pm
Quoting Fana
Happy trading friends.
Great discussion with art insertions today, thank you for that

One question of the humble beginner if i can...: For more than the last 3month i have still the same equity. I trade nearly 1year... Maybe i am too careful or i dont know...
Do you have some such experience from the past?
regards
"Five basic mistakes of the General".
  • #14,360
  • Apr 14, 2010 4:12pm Apr 14, 2010 4:12pm
Connectivity issues and a platform "freezing" ... the strongest geomagnetic storm hit globe from 5.april.
48 traders viewing now, 1 is registered:
Ferrym