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  • #6,601
  • Apr 10, 2010 7:05pm Apr 10, 2010 7:05pm
Nice HG! Thank you for that post.

Donnie
  • #6,602
  • Apr 10, 2010 7:07pm Apr 10, 2010 7:07pm
Quoting bruceli

please, could you tell me what should i do ?

thanks..
Naturally, I can't comment on what you should do except to say, it is supposed to be an investment, not a gamble.

What I do is try to put myself in the position of the market maker and the banks.

I have been doing this a while now and something that is never mentioned is the last minute of the candle formation.

If I want people to sell and I can create an illusion of a bearish candle pattern where the market goes nowhere, then people will sell. All the while the other minutes of the candle showed a different story. Check it out for yourself.. it has been my greatest insight to what is going on and my best trade entry guide.

A very important thing to remember is that retail traders with a mm broker moves the market zero percent but add to volume. Each time a trade is opened the market maker, the market maker must open an opposite direction trade.

However the same is not true if you are stopped out or exit your loosing trade.. his software puts in a stoploss at your stopout point and he rides the good trade for free. He still has his spread and rather than break even on the trade by closing he is free to ride it out.

Now he has a bunch of trades open where he can make money for everyone that picked the wrong direction prior and the trades where traders picked the right direction, he has already taken the spread. He cannot loose on the open trades, he can only make more or less profit.

So what does this do to Volume?

When in times of low volume it is in his interest to mark the price in the direction of the already open bulk trades. (cavet this depends on how many pending orders he wants to pickup on the way)

They say the market moves with supply and demand. I think it also moves with lack of demand.

In my opinion in times of low volume outside popular trade hours the market moves where ever it suits the market makers. When professional money comes into the market this changes but they see the orders come in and the size before it shows up on the charts. When all market makers exit those existing free trades, price will go in the opposite direction under low or no volume.

Its all a game of chess and volume is the key indicator. I am sure it is way more complex than this and this is just how I think when I am entering a trade. Don't think about the chart, think how the chart makers are profiting from what the show you. Look at the signs they cannot hide.

I could go into central banks and Mergers and Acquisitions but it needs a book. Suffice to say, the banks will put the market where they want, to accommodate/facilitate a settlement price for a big client. More often than not, they will do this when there is enough money in the market to fill their transaction specifications. Move over market makers!

The last time cable hit that level.. the volume was higher and it did not break through. I wonder if it can do it now?
  • #6,603
  • Apr 10, 2010 7:11pm Apr 10, 2010 7:11pm
[quote=HiddenGap;3626765]I realize this thread could be entitled Malcolmb's minions, but I'd like to make a post anyway . The truth and the irony is that there are a million ways to make money in the markets, the hard part is finding one.

quote]


Yet another one for my folder cheers HG....Keep um comin.
  • #6,604
  • Apr 10, 2010 8:41pm Apr 10, 2010 8:41pm
Quoting HiddenGap
The truth and the irony is that there are a million ways to make money in the markets, the hard part is finding one.

The value of climatic action candles. Climatic action candles are the place to begin any analysis.

...the best place to start looking for entries into the market, is going to be either a climatic action candle or an ultra high volume candle. Most of the time they will be the same candle

"So by simple observation of the spread (range) of the bar, we can read the sentiment of the market-makers; the opinion of those who can see...
There are traders.....

there are teachers....

and there are traders who can teach!

We are fortunate to have both...

Study the man's words people, they are powerful.

Thank you for the time and the effort HG...

Chief
  • #6,605
  • Apr 10, 2010 9:15pm Apr 10, 2010 9:15pm
Quoting cosmoras
Here you go..

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y5UQXJ1N
I found myself a bit of time and have used the files you gave me. Exactly what I wanted thanks for taking the trouble to help
  • #6,606
  • Apr 10, 2010 9:30pm Apr 10, 2010 9:30pm
Quoting HiddenGap
I realize this thread could be entitled Malcolmb's minions, but I'd like to make a post anyway . The truth and the irony is that there are a million ways to make money in the markets, the hard part is finding one.

There's a lot I could talk about, but I think I will just focus on our Better Volume indicator (I hate that word). I know, Better Volume is not technically VSA. Skip to the next post if you are bothered by that fact. On the other hand, if you are about reading price & volume Better Volume is an invaluable tool totally consistent with...
Awesome post...thanks for the charts and explanations. Always appreciated. good stuff.
  • #6,607
  • Apr 10, 2010 11:00pm Apr 10, 2010 11:00pm
@ HG and anyone else who knows the answer!!!

In the chart below, is there any significance in the 1st blue box above the 2 bar shake out?

Also how about a long entry on breaking the top of the bar in the 2nd box and same for the 3rd box (but only after seeing the next bar form into a shake out).

The 1st box is the important question.

Many thanks
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  • #6,608
  • Apr 10, 2010 11:44pm Apr 10, 2010 11:44pm
Intel.

I'm not sure what you are asking here. The bar prior to the two bar shake out is a down bar on decreasing volume. The market gaps up and creates a wide spread up bar. The wide spread bar trades higher than what appears to be a reaction high (red bar 2 before the blue box) and this reaction high is a bit of an up thrust. That fact, if correct however, is not a VSA entry.

There are two ways VSA gets you in:

1. If you see the two bar shake out, which I would actually call a two bar reversal. This is aggressive and it helps to "know where you are". For example, if this is occurring right on the daily pivot, that might give added confidence. Or in my case, if it was happening in or around a Supply/Demand Delta Zone. And as Malcolmb would point out, we need to know something about the background. Remember in order to trade right, we need to look left.

or

2. A no supply or test after the shake out/two bar reversal.
The second blue box has a no supply. While this no supply comes after the shake out, this is more a direct result of the wide spread up bar on high volume that followed the shake out/two bar reversal. Markets don't like wide spread up bars on high volume. The following bar is a hidden test. You entry would be in this area.

It might play out like this. You see the no supply and then look to go long on a break of the high. The next bar is a hidden test that does not make a higher high. So you are not brought into the market. But you realize that this next bar is a hidden test so you now are looking to get in on a breach of the high of this second bar. The high is lower, so you are looking to get in at a lower price than you were one interval before.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #6,609
  • Apr 11, 2010 12:07am Apr 11, 2010 12:07am
wow this is amazing - i feel like im going to be stuck reading about vsa for the rest of the night - the reason why i stopped at some point is because someone once told me there is no such thing as volume in forex - it only works by ticks.... ticks or no ticks - it works
thanks
  • #6,610
  • Apr 11, 2010 1:41am Apr 11, 2010 1:41am
Quoting Intel
@ HG and anyone else who knows the answer!!!

In the chart below, is there any significance in the 1st blue box above the 2 bar shake out?

Also how about a long entry on breaking the top of the bar in the 2nd box and same for the 3rd box (but only after seeing the next bar form into a shake out).

The 1st box is the important question.

Many thanks
Sorry Intel got a phone call and had to cut my answer short.

Go back to my post before the first part of my answer. I said a good place to start was with climatic action. That is why I like Better Volume. From you chart, I can assume that the bar after the two bar reversal/shake out is climatic action without seeing the last 20 bars. But the two involved in the reversal might be also. If they are, we would still like to see this occur at a support line of some sort, but we would at least know that something is happening as the volume*range dynamic would be telling us there was.
But again, I am not actually sure what you are asking when you say within the blue area above the shake out.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #6,611
  • Apr 11, 2010 8:36am Apr 11, 2010 8:36am
Hi All,

I have sat around all day and gone through the boot camp CDs posted here and I have gone back over the charts for comparison setups and results.

I have been trading with volume for a long time but somewhat differently. To be honest some of this stuff does not ring right to me.

I would really like some real world feedback on how you guys are going with this? Is it possible this method of trading is not as reliable in forex as it may be in other markets?

Feel free to beat me over the head for my comments!

Since I am not part of the herd mentality, I wonder these points as well.

If I was a multi millionaire trader I am not so sure I would spend my spare time training the masses for a few extra bucks.. wada u think?

The other thing really bothering me is this.. retail traders with mm brokers move the market zero but add substantially to volume with a matching opposite order. Therefore volume has certain cavets that effect signal reliability.

Outside regular market hours.. you see the brokers mucking around with price as the tick chart jumps backwards and forwards non stop without actual orders. They have not filtered these bars but it looks like higher demand volume bars.

Each time a tick comes in, it is a price change and not necessarily an order or a lot. Mr Williams appears to think it is a lot or as he said, maybe several lots. That is simply incorrect.

They dont seem to address or warn of events that effect the volume. Is no one worried about that?

Please don't get me wrong, volume is hugely important but it must be well understood in the forex market for exactly what it is and how it works.
  • #6,612
  • Apr 11, 2010 10:28am Apr 11, 2010 10:28am
Hello Intel,

It was wh1zz0 who posted it. I have checked its source codes. Yes, that parameter does not do what you want it to do. It calculates the adr just base on the daily range in the daily chart, so the start of the daily session is fixed and dependent on the MT server. I think that parameter has impact on calculating the main moves. Hope it is of help.


Quoting Intel
I am using the _RANGE_TRADER_9.08 Labaise53 as found somewhere on this thread. I think it was posted by Polomine (thanks btw).

It works great except I can't get the 'Timeshift' to work. I want it to start at +7 hours but no matter what figure I enter in that field, the ATR remains the same (therefore, the start point hasn't changed).

Firstly, am I reading that field correctly......does it do what I think it does?

Secondly, can anyone help please.
  • #6,613
  • Apr 11, 2010 12:20pm Apr 11, 2010 12:20pm
Think of vsa like this ... in simple terms.

hidden gap is a genius and makes things look way to complicated , but his posts are awesome and if you can really disgest them will make you a better trader moving forward. I also am not that simple and use a varity of things ( mostly s/r lines of different type and vsa) , but they seem easy to me.

Forex volume is not real volume . It is amount of orders going thru in a certain amount of time.

If we see an up move on regular volume in a 30 min time frame (like a 120 pip up move) and then a 20 pip wide candle on really high volume at prior resistance ( do not worry about names etc but understand what it means) this mean there is more than usual activity at this price point and a very low range. If the next 30 min candle is down and breaks the low of the high volume candle we can assume that the volume was sellers. The same is for wide body ultra high volume candles as we see in the chart below. There are 2 of them but note the lack of down move after both these signs of weakness. Market is not interested in moving down and buyers may have absorbed those sellers.

Then all we need do is either
1) sell here with a stop 10 pip above the low or close or the prior 30 min high vol candle
2) wait for better confirmation of the top forming, ie some sort of up move on low volume

If price does not move down off what appears to be selling then close trade and wait , Friday was a good example of this. i was on skype with another trader and he did sell at a good price based on weakness, I ran thru chart with him and showed him that we had massive volumes and price was going no where indicating that the sellers were being absorbed. He decided to sloe at just above b/e and just after he did that price ran up to test top of day.

In regards to making a few bucks teaching others I think you are talking about either the TG team or NYSE guy. TG is a business much like any others , what is easy try and trade every day hoping to beat the market or have a regular monthly source of revenue ? NYSE is a fool ...not sure if he got any better but last time i got banned from his thread he did not have a clue what he was talking about.


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Quoting asgard2
Hi All,

I have sat around all day and gone through the boot camp CDs posted here and I have gone back over the charts for comparison setups and results.

I have been trading with volume for a long time but somewhat differently. To be honest some of this stuff does not ring right to me.

I would really like some real world feedback on how you guys are going with this? Is it possible this method of trading is not as reliable in forex as it may be in other markets?

Feel free to beat me over the head for my comments!

Since I am not part of the herd...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #6,614
  • Apr 11, 2010 12:40pm Apr 11, 2010 12:40pm
[quote=malcolmb14;3627571]Think of vsa like this ... in simple terms.

hidden gap is a genius and makes things look way to complicated , but his posts are awesome and if you can really disgest them will make you a better trader moving forward. I also am not that simple and use a varity of things ( mostly s/r lines of different type and vsa) , but they seem easy to me.

Forex volume is not real volume . It is amount of orders going thru in a certain amount of time.

If we see an up move on regular volume in a 30 min time frame (like a 120 pip up move) and then a 20 pip wide candle on really high volume at prior resistance ( do not worry about names etc but understand what it means) this mean there is more than usual activity at this price point and a very low range. If the next 30 min candle is down and breaks the low of the high volume candle we can assume that the volume was sellers. The same is for wide body ultra high volume candles as we see in the chart below. There are 2 of them but note the lack of down move after both these signs of weakness. Market is not interested in moving down and buyers may have absorbed those sellers.


Nice post, cheers Mal.
  • #6,615
  • Apr 11, 2010 2:44pm Apr 11, 2010 2:44pm
Quote
If we see an up move on regular volume in a 30 min time frame (like a 120 pip up move) and then a 20 pip wide candle on really high volume at prior resistance ( do not worry about names etc but understand what it means) this mean there is more than usual activity at this price point and a very low range. If the next 30 min candle is down and breaks the low of the high volume candle we can assume that the volume was sellers.
The posts by Malcolmb and Hidden Gap reminded me of this chart...GU this past Wednesday the 7th. A good example of effort vs result and using VSA to read the market. This was also at the 1.5200 round number.
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  • #6,616
  • Apr 11, 2010 5:34pm Apr 11, 2010 5:34pm
Quoting HiddenGap
Intel.

I'm not sure what you are asking here. The bar prior to the two bar shake out is a down bar on decreasing volume. The market gaps up and creates a wide spread up bar. The wide spread bar trades higher than what appears to be a reaction high (red bar 2 before the blue box) and this reaction high is a bit of an up thrust. That fact, if correct however, is not a VSA entry.

There are two ways VSA gets you in:

1. If you see the two bar shake out, which I would actually call a two bar reversal. This is aggressive and it helps to "know where...
I must appologise for my post, I only supplied half the information and never explained myself well. In my defence I was VERY tired when I posted.

The missing chart is found below.

My main question (not very well asked or described) was about the 2 'gaps' found above the 2 bar reversal.

The action in the box is this:- a down bar on volume less than the previous 2 bars then gaps down to the 2 bar reversal and then gaps up at about the same place it gapped down, Into a climatic volume up bar.

This leads to a 100 pip up move in about 2 1/2 hours.

I have never seen this 'double' gapping move before and was wondering if it holds any significance for the move ahead or is it just coincidence?
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  • #6,617
  • Apr 11, 2010 5:56pm Apr 11, 2010 5:56pm
Quoting polomine
Hello Intel,

It was wh1zz0 who posted it. I have checked its source codes. Yes, that parameter does not do what you want it to do. It calculates the adr just base on the daily range in the daily chart, so the start of the daily session is fixed and dependent on the MT server. I think that parameter has impact on calculating the main moves. Hope it is of help.
Ok thanks for that.

This is what I thought. I would like one which can be altered according to when I want the 'day' to begin....never mind.

Thanks again.
  • #6,618
  • Edited 6:22pm Apr 11, 2010 6:10pm | Edited 6:22pm
Quoting malcolmb14
Think of vsa like this ... in simple terms.

Forex volume is not real volume . It is amount of orders going thru in a certain amount of time.

In regards to making a few bucks teaching others I think you are talking about either the TG team or NYSE guy. TG is a business much like any others , what is easy try and trade every day hoping to beat the market or have a regular monthly source of revenue ? NYSE is a fool ...not sure if he got any better but last time i got banned from his thread he did not have a clue what he was talking about.
Forex Volume is not the amount of orders going through.. trust me on this.. it is the amount of times the price changed or new quote is given, that's all. When people know that, they can read the whole chart in a totally different light.


If the method is working, I would like to know so I was asking how you are all going on your live accounts?

Thanks for your efforts to reply, really appreciated!

cheers A
  • #6,619
  • Edited 6:39pm Apr 11, 2010 6:13pm | Edited 6:39pm
Quoting Intel
I must appologise for my post, I only supplied half the information and never explained myself well. In my defence I was VERY tired when I posted.

The missing chart is found below.

My main question (not very well asked or described) was about the 2 'gaps' found above the 2 bar reversal.

The action in the box is this:- a down bar on volume less than the previous 2 bars then gaps down to the 2 bar reversal and then gaps up at about the same place it gapped down, Into a climatic volume up bar.

This leads to a 100 pip up move in about 2 1/2...
Not sure what you're asking as it's not really clear. But if you're referring to the area close to the first blue box in your posted chart, I would look at it simply as a spring board action directly from support (look back ~1.5140). A test on lower volume after high test indicates that prices are ready to rise immediately = successful test.


Quoting asgard2
Forex Volume is not the amount of orders going through.. trust me on this.. it is the amount of times the price changed, that's all. When people know that, they can read the whole chart in a totally different light.


If the method is working, I would like to know so I was asking how you are all going on your live accounts?

Thanks for your efforts to reply, really appreciated!

cheers A
Whether it is the amount of orders going through or the amount of times the price changed is not important. The most important thing is that the information we get by looking at volume shows us activity and this is all we are interested in. We use it's relative correlation in addition to the HLC of bars and not actual values (so we do not care about actual values) and this information is sufficient for VSA. It not only works, it rocks.
  • #6,620
  • Apr 11, 2010 6:23pm Apr 11, 2010 6:23pm
Quoting wh1zz0
Not sure what you're asking as it's not really clear. But if you're referring to the area close to the first blue box in your posted chart, I would look at it simply as a spring board action directly from support (look back ~1.5140). A test on lower volume after high test indicates that prices are ready to rise immediately = successful test.
It gaps down to reversal then gaps up away from it. Both of the reversal bars have a gap above them, this is the interesting part.
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