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Trainee Trader job?

  • #21
  • Mar 29, 2010 11:43am Mar 29, 2010 11:43am
Thanks ron you've got me intrigued now. Could you be a little more specific though? Do you mean stuff like price patterns, adding to your position in a trend or literally shopping around for lower comission?

When I google things like 'how does a trader find the best possible price for his manager' I just get a string of scam looking websites offering teaching lol.
The greatest force on earth is compound interest.
  • #22
  • Mar 29, 2010 12:27pm Mar 29, 2010 12:27pm
Quoting sebastionay
Thanks ron you've got me intrigued now. Could you be a little more specific though? Do you mean stuff like price patterns, adding to your position in a trend or literally shopping around for lower comission?

When I google things like 'how does a trader find the best possible price for his manager' I just get a string of scam looking websites offering teaching lol.
YES! Google! What a great start. Ok, so now you have not found exactly what you are looking for. Dont give up. Think outside the box. You are looking for 'how does a trader find the best possible price for his manager'. Well now lets take it a step further. You likely found hits on "trader", "price", and "manager". the rest of the sentence was dumped by google to reduce irrelevant posts. This likely resulted in a bunch of spam looking pages because that is essentially what you told google you wanted.

Lets take this just one step further. A fund manager probably works for a large institution, and you want to find out how orders are processed by the traders at the best possible price.

Institution (also sub in institutional), fund manager, order management, trade processing techniques, these are (among many others) professional industry jargon and will help eliminate the scam sites as they dont know how to use big words like this. (Itd be interesting to see how many of these words were on those scam sites too). I substituted in some of these words in my own google search and found a few slightly more interesting pages. Is it what you are looking for? I dont know, Ill let you make that determination.

I never thought Id write a quick tutorial on a trading forum about the use of google, but hopefully itll help someone.
  • #23
  • Edited 1:31pm Mar 29, 2010 12:41pm | Edited 1:31pm
Quoting traderjai_inhi

In season 2 they follow a fresh grad from some uni in NYC (I think it is NYU Stern), anyways, this moron knows NOTHING about trading and was accepted by SMB capital (mainly equities) in NY to their training program.
she might have good predispositions to be a trader, proven well in her business school by grades,achievements etc
day trader is not analyst or investor, all he have to do is follow the rules and have discipline , numeric and other skills, etc
And, as someone said in this thread they often want a fresh mind without experience to mold it the way they want

btw I have recently blew out my first 500$ account , the day after that i found day trader job available so i'm applying for it i have some chances as i studied economics and wrote dessideration about technical and fundamental analysis basics with G/u as an example LOL
here are the requirements:

 

  1. experience not nessesary but desirable
  2. min. BA in exact sciences
  3. discipline, being stress-resistant determination
  4. ability to focus and being able to make responsible financial decisions in fast changing environment
  5. english as a foreign language would be an advantage

they trade futures on Euronext LIFFE, Eurex, CME Group oraz ICE. So it looks like they want somebody with no experience in that field

but if i could choose between trading forex full time from home with full lots , and working for someone.... im 24 must get a job, earn money, and I can trade larger time frames what suits me also

  • #24
  • Mar 29, 2010 1:01pm Mar 29, 2010 1:01pm
Quoting cinex
she might have good predispositions to be a trader, proven well in her business school by grades,achievements etc
day trader is not analyst or investor, all he have to do is follow the rules and have discipline , numeric and other skills, etc
And, as someone said in this thread they often want a fresh mind without experience to mold it the way they want

btw I have recently blew out my first 500$ account after 1 month of trading and being still @ irritating level of $500 I made a 0.4 lot short on cable...
It shows me that she has no focus and no determination. 3 different jobs in as many months and she cant get her head in the game. SMB looked like a fabulous laid back yet intense place to work. Same with the investment banker in France, though a lot more demanding of time. The FXCM position didnt look nearly as exciting as the SMB one. But to each their own I spose.

I wish you success in getting the job. When you do you will come back here and tell us all about it? I really find the subject quite fascinating.
  • #25
  • Mar 29, 2010 1:22pm Mar 29, 2010 1:22pm
Quoting sebastionay
Thanks ron you've got me intrigued now. Could you be a little more specific though? Do you mean stuff like price patterns, adding to your position in a trend or literally shopping around for lower comission?

When I google things like 'how does a trader find the best possible price for his manager' I just get a string of scam looking websites offering teaching lol.
I'm only doing to do this once: http://tinyurl.com/yz7a9qx it takes a lot of googling to learn the jargon of the industry, but ultimately, I would've expected you to hit that.

traderjai_inhi did exactly what I expected you to do.


If you know anything about wall street, you'll realize that there is a world of difference between us (retail trading) and them (institutional trading). Trading as a career is not a walk in the park. Before you even consider applying to these firms, look at what you're getting yourself into. If the only reason you're looking to get in is because of the multi million dollar bonuses, get out now, or I will eat your lunch for you.
  • #26
  • Mar 29, 2010 1:42pm Mar 29, 2010 1:42pm
Quoting traderjai_inhi
I wish you success in getting the job. When you do you will come back here and tell us all about it? I really find the subject quite fascinating.
Thank you man, I was watching over the weekend two seasons of WS warriors that was motivating for me - thanks for posting about it

and i was also a bit surprised, i had different view on people who work on wall street
  • #27
  • Mar 29, 2010 2:04pm Mar 29, 2010 2:04pm
No problem Cinex. There is another interesting show called million dollar traders about a UK fellow who tried to make his own turtle group. It is a rather interesting mix of personalities and is also good to watch the psychology of them as they trade.
  • #28
  • Mar 29, 2010 2:13pm Mar 29, 2010 2:13pm
Quoting traderjai_inhi
There is another interesting show called million dollar traders about a UK fellow who tried to make his own turtle group.
  • #29
  • Mar 29, 2010 5:23pm Mar 29, 2010 5:23pm
Thanks guys.
The greatest force on earth is compound interest.
  • #30
  • Mar 29, 2010 6:32pm Mar 29, 2010 6:32pm
Quoting sebastionay
Well don't know about you but I like to talk about trading with people in person and it would be nice to be surrounded by people that know what their talking about doing the same thing. My friends where I live don't have the understanding or enough interest.

classic example would be Darling's speech the other day, he said he plans to half the 'deficit' over the next few years and that things are improving because the deficit is less than figures HE projected last quarter.

My friends tried to disagree with me saying that he's doing a good job 'considering...

well put seb
  • #31
  • Apr 4, 2010 5:03pm Apr 4, 2010 5:03pm
I never heard of Wall Street Warriors. I did find it on Hulu and I hate to admit it, but I sat on my butt and watch both seasons in one shot. Great show.

Good luck to anyone wanting to enter that world.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #32
  • Edited 12:24pm Apr 12, 2010 12:11pm | Edited 12:24pm
Quoting traderjai_inhi
I wish you success in getting the job. When you do you will come back here and tell us all about it? I really find the subject quite fascinating.

I got that job, for the first 3 months i must prove that i can handle it, that is a training, althoug in that three months I'll be trading real money also but I won't be actually able to name myself as trader for at least 7-8 months, if i'll be there still of course , but i believe so
I'll be trading futures on low liquidity markets on Euronext LIFFE, Eurex, CBOT etc, strategy provided naturally, and of course it is not an investment banks type of trader position, dont reaaly know many details yet, but i like it already :-)
  • #33
  • Apr 12, 2010 3:32pm Apr 12, 2010 3:32pm
Honestly, its one of the toughest businesses in the world to get into ( trading prop or for institution). I've been trying for two years desperately to get an internship at any trading floor or similar with little success. I graduate in one year, and I will continue to pursue, I dont care, Ill take a mop job there....I've learned this; your credentials dont mean shit, everyone and their brother has the same resume as you or better. I have a solid gpa, great track record and I can guarantee you I'm smarter and work twice as efficient and hard than the other 98.5% of the people competing with me for the same job. Guess what? NO ONE CARES! In the investment world, its a game of the spoils system. You dont know anyone there? Dont have a foot in? Youre not getting any position there....simple as that.
  • #34
  • Apr 12, 2010 4:00pm Apr 12, 2010 4:00pm
Reading this thread, i see some good points and some utter crap. That last poster will never get a job, he's already admitted defeat.
I was an interbank fx broker for decades, i also broked in the otc options mkt.
How did i get started? Pure perseverance.
There were 5 brokers in london when i started, i wrote to each one, every week, without fail. Eventually their hr depts used to write back on first name terms, telling me they had no vacancies. But i still kept writing, and eventually, got some interviews.
I also got hold of a hambros directory, not sure if they still do it, but it lists the staff for every banks dealing room, worldwide, So you can get a name for the trader who trades gbp for barclays, in london, and new york etc.
I also used to send weekly apllications to the head traders, and more than once i got a phonecall telling me to f**k off and stop writing letters.
Unfortunately, for most people on these threads, be careful what you wish for. You really ready to work 80 90 hour weeks, to the detriment of everything in your personal life?? I doubt it.
To the threadstarter, i admire your ambition, but to be honest your age is against you, but hope you prove me wrong.
  • #35
  • Apr 12, 2010 4:08pm Apr 12, 2010 4:08pm
Quoting mfoste1
Honestly, its one of the toughest businesses in the world to get into ( trading prop or for institution). I've been trying for two years desperately to get an internship at any trading floor or similar with little
Not necessary. I have said that social skills are favorable in many cases to land the perfect job but in most cases your brainpower is way more important. I had a colleague who got himself an internship at Morgan Stanley few months ago. Good education gave him the pass for an interview but thats how far papers will help you.

If you're very clever, there should be no problem at all to land a good job of your choice with decent papers along.
Measure twice, cut once
  • #36
  • Apr 14, 2010 12:05am Apr 14, 2010 12:05am
Quote
That's going to require a quantitative degree from a top 20 University. Nobody is going to employ a guy to be a trader who has no qualifications and no track record, it just doesn't happen now like it (allegedly) used to.


I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. I hand out on average between 3 and 6 internships a year at my firm. Most will have no experience. Most are current MBA students at Columbia and NY Universities. But that is only because these schools make it easy to find recruits looking for interns here in NY City. All will be assigned basic office duties and then procede to participate on on-going research projects. Those that stick it out than will be given a chance to become an order monkey. This is in line with most of the other firms I know of. There is no special license or degrees required. It's all about networking and getting your foot in the door. Once in you try to learn the trade and make a position for yourself. Most will move on to other endeavors. Some will stick around amd become permanent researchers and analysts. Only a hand full learn the trade and give something worthwhile back to the partners of the firms. Those that do will be give the responsible to manage various amount of funds. In time these individuals will particpate in the profits of the firm. Most will earn between 170000 to 300000 per year when all is said and done, not counting bonuses. I hope this helps.
  • #37
  • Apr 16, 2010 7:37pm Apr 16, 2010 7:37pm
Awesome thread!
Thanks everyone for sharing.
  • #38
  • Apr 16, 2010 8:50pm Apr 16, 2010 8:50pm
I've worked at a proprietary trading firm in Canada for about 12 months. Getting in wasn't so hard as long as you can past their profile test in the interview. You only get paid by commission, so if you don't make money, you dont get paid.

They were always looking for new people because this business is a revolving door. Most people can't survive more than six months without a pay check and it is rare for traders to start making money within six months.

I've seen so many traders crash and burn. This is not an easy business to be in. Only about 5% of traders are able to make a living in the long run, and from my experience at this company, that number is correct. The few guys that did make it put an enormous amount of time after hours studying the market, and it still took them 1-2 years to figure it out.

Trading for a living is like playing poker for a living. If you're hoping to have a company hire you and pay you to become a trader, good luck. How many professional poker players are willing to train and pay you at the same time to become a poker player? None that I've heard of.

Best advice I can give is to keep your day job and trade on your own in your spare time. Unless you have blood connections in this industry, getting paid to learn to be a trader is rare.
  • #39
  • Apr 21, 2010 6:27am Apr 21, 2010 6:27am
Hi, first of all I'd just like to say a big thank you to everyone for their feedback on this thread, very much appreciated. Also thanks for pointing out about Wall Street Warriors - I've been glued to it! and it hasn't put me off! I've been doing quite a bit of research into various job opportunities, had my CV rewritten, and I think it might be quite difficult to get into a bank with no financial degree etc. I have discovered a few prop houses namely: Savi Trading, Amplify Trading, OSTC & Global Trading Community. Was just wondering if you guys had any feedback on these companies or other recommendations?
  • #40
  • Apr 21, 2010 9:11am Apr 21, 2010 9:11am
wall street warriors is not very accurate in their depiction of wall street. The stuff you see there accounts maybe for 0.5%. They focus largely on the 'glamorous' part of wall street.
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