Trainee Trader job?

Hi, wondering if you can help me. I'm a 27 year old graphic designer, based in northern ireland and I've been trading from home (end of day) for about a year now with mixed success. Trading is something that fascinates me and I love watching how markets react etc. I am really keen to pursue a career in trading, learn the ropes, and wondering if you guys would be able to recommend any companies I should apply to to pursue my career in trading? (I'm prepared to move to London)

Any advice from experienced traders would be greatly appreciated?

That's going to require a quantitative degree from a top 20 University. Nobody is going to employ a guy to be a trader who has no qualifications and no track record, it just doesn't happen now like it (allegedly) used to.

Get a trading internship wherever you can. Company doesn't matter right now, you need to build your track record.

And does this happen in your experience? What kind of places recruit someone with no higher education or specialist skills? I'm genuinely interested, it would be something I'd look in to as well. It would be great to get some (non-retail) trading experience before my degree and would undoubtedly help me when making university applications.

Ive noticed a couple of short term courses in the city where you pay to study and work and the cost of tuition is refunded if you are not found a job in the industry within a set period of time. Either way once the course is finished you end up with qualifications after having sat some exams.

Ive no idea if these courses are scams to make easy money, Did anyone here start out their trading career in London this way? Any insights would be nice.

I got my first internship when I was 16 working over the summer at Greenwich Capital Markets (since acquired by RBS) in their IT department. My job was simply to break and report errors in the trading platform to the IT group, and gather feedback from the traders whom I supported. After three months working there, I knew everybody on the trading floor, and everybody knew me. I was there from 6:30 every morning to 7-8 at night. Other interns were there from 10-3, these were people from ivy league schools who I was competing against. When I wasn't working on an assignment, I was studying the various securities which I was supporting at the time, I frequently ate lunch with traders and tried to learn their craft.


That internship was paid, but I could've just as easily not accept pay as I had the savings from my first business with me, I was still trading options profitably, and I was on the verge of mastering my forex coin toss exercise.

Getting into Wall Street is very possible. What's holding you back?

The qualitative degree which you mention is very useful if you want to join the modeling group of a major bank. Banks don't necessarily delve into quantitative trading, they'd rather find a hedge fund that specializes in that and give them the money.

Hi thanks for your replies guys. So you reckon searching for an internship is the best way to go? Is there any companies that I should stay clear of though? Appreciate the help

If you want to work for a bank then you will need a minimum 2.1 degree in Finance, Business or Economics.

However, there are thousands in UK with these qualifications so you are going to be up against it trying to get short listed for an interview, assuming you dont already know someone on their trading floor.

Scoobs.

Hi Scoobs, I have a 2:1 degree in graphic design and I did a years graduate management programme. Granted my degree is not economics related, but i have a strong interest in trading and financial markets and have been investing in shares and trading for 2 years, do you think I could get in somewhere?

ps. unfortunatley I don't know anyone on a trading floor! Would be great to hear from someone who does, or has been in a similar position?

what do you mean by trading? i think you can easily (depends on your will) go to a company like that http://en.ostc-uk.com/intro.php if u hold a degree in finance, economy, mathematics even physics ("exact sciences") and u pass the recrutation tests etc. Maybe if u have some skills u can prove, doesnt really matter what your education is. I dont know.

But if u r thinking about being an investment bank trader , there's no way if u dont have a strong dergee in finance usually from one of top universities, but look, there are many who hold it and not everyone is doin it. I heard that in London there was 5000 "bankers" getting a more than milion-pound annual bonus in 2009. Very nice number.

Despite above, there is always a way in todays world... you can earn some money go to for example London School of Business and start your career. But what it really gives you ?

There is a show called "Wall Street Warriors" and you can find it on hulu or mojo if you want to watch it. They basically follow around different finance folks who work in and around Wall St. My favorite was Brett a 26-28 yr old who runs his own $100m private equity fund.

In season 2 they follow a fresh grad from some uni in NYC (I think it is NYU Stern), anyways, this moron knows NOTHING about trading and was accepted by SMB capital (mainly equities) in NY to their training program. After she finished she worked for a few weeks and quit to move back to France where her family stays. While there she interviews with an investment banker who was very frank and clear about the hard work and high expectations involved. Anyways, after 2 weeks she decides she doesnt want to work for that guy either and moves back to NYC. Once back, she is AGAIN approached and begins working at FXCM under Boris and Kathy.

So you see, there are places out there that will accept someone with little to no experience. I also hear that most prop firms wont hire someone who was previously employed in the industry as they want fresh minds to mold the way they want, and not what someone else has already molded. This dumb slunt has been given 3 opportunities to work at major firms, and IMHO totally blows it with the first 2, and FXCM should have never even looked at her and the reason they did is exposure because of this tv show. That is the only reason oh, and she is mildly attractive. She has no ambition to learn this business and is mostly a 9-5er who couldnt handle it anyways!

if you can make good money by trading for your self why would u bother to work for some one else?

20% of a lot more money is better than 100% of very little money

Hi thanks for all your feedback guys. I guess I really want to work for a firm to gain the experience of working on a trading floor, become part of the trading team, gain qualifications and learn the skills involved, which would hopefully put me in good stead for a career in trading. If you can offer any advice as to firms to apply for or how to go about it, it would be great to hear?

Thanks in advance

Sorta strange...100% repetitively of little money + independence any day

Well don't know about you but I like to talk about trading with people in person and it would be nice to be surrounded by people that know what their talking about doing the same thing. My friends where I live don't have the understanding or enough interest.

classic example would be Darling's speech the other day, he said he plans to half the 'deficit' over the next few years and that things are improving because the deficit is less than figures HE projected last quarter.

My friends tried to disagree with me saying that he's doing a good job 'considering the situation' granted he gave a speech to deliberately bamboozle the masses into thinking that he is doing a great job.

Firstly he's aiming to half the deficit, so in other words he fully expects to put us in more debt, I think most ordinary people will have thought from that speech that he was talking about reducing our debt not reducing the rate at which he puts us in debt.

He was kind enough to mention where a small percentage of the budget cuts were coming from though the main cut he announced being our national health service, followed by the Military... yes while were having a war.

Secondly do we really want a massive government that spends a fortune on socialism? for people outside the UK that aren't seeing as much, We even have adverts on the television telling us to cover our nose when we sneeze! as if we wouldn't know otherwise that it spreads germs.

We have government 'quangos' for just about everything from an organization to tell us what cereals are healthy to one linked to Mandelson that's printing off golf balls with a government logo on for an impressive £12000!

http://1.2.3.10/bmi/i.dailymail.co.u...27_468x286.jpg

In case you didn't realize how many quangos we have now ill quote the daily telegraph ''it is 1,162 quangos with a total cost of £64 billion. That is sufficient to give every household £2,550''

Went on a bit of a rant there but I think for someone young that really enjoys trading, getting a proper job in the field would not only be more enjoyable than trading at home alone but it will also be much more productive both for the account balance and the trading skills.

Hi thanks for the reply/rant sebastionay! I definitely agree that it would be more productive for my trading skills if I got a job in the industry rather than trading from home. I'm currently trying to layout my CV, obviously being from a graphic design background, I don't have much in terms of financial industry experience. I did 'graduate' from Traders University - but I'm not sure if that's something I should brag about!? I guess I'm asking really what do prospective traders CV's look like? And what do employers look for?

Really appreciate your help

Just a forewarning. This type of job is a lot more than "show up and collect a paycheck" and I hope that is what you will glean from this post.


This is going to be a problem for you. You seem to think it is all about getting hired, what happens once you are but you fail to come up with good ideas? Youve put very little effort into this endeavor so far. Why dont you go to google and research it yourself a little. (Perhaps you have, what sites did you find helpful? if any). All you are doing is asking a forum the best way to get a trading job when I bet most of the people replying dont even have a professional (IE, They get paid to trade OPM) trading job. Why would you even want their advice, they dont do what you want to, so it is pointless. Would you ever go to a bald barber to have your haircut? I sure wouldnt!

Find the info for yourself and you will better yourself. It really is all about finding useful knowledge that others cant (or wont because they are too lazy or undetermined) and exploiting it to the best of your ability to extract as many insights as possible.

Now what happens once you get that trading job because someone on here posts a link to a good site, what will you do then? Troll forums looking for "good trading advice" and 5 min trading strategies?

So many people come here so disillusioned about what hard work really is. You want advice on how to land a job... dont be afraid to use google and be creative, come up with your own ideas. Any manager will be able to recognized re-hashed crap off a forum.

As a for instance for you. Today I am learning about China, I didnt expect to and it was not on my to-do list but I read an article and it intrigued me. Did you know that they are going through a housing boom right now? They have a city called Kangbashi with over 1 million residences (homes-brand new mind you) and they are abandoned... a modern day ghost town. And that isnt the only residential building projects that are going to waste. Now this is interesting. I wonder what they will do with all those houses, are they going to fill them when the floodwaters rise more at 3 gorges dam? Could there be a new and more robust project that they are going to start working on to fill these homes? Or are they on the brink of their own housing bubble which could force them to revalue the yuan like America wants. What will that do to the local economy when these homes are filled, will people have money for food or leftover money for furniture and what not (these are very nice looking homes). What will this do to the global economy if it is a bubble and the China powerhouse slows down? Would India pick up the shortcomings of China and have a surge of their own, could they even afford it with their poverty level. How many labor jobs are being advertised in the major cities. What is their unemployment numbers? What about Brazil and Russia, the other BRIC countries. What will this do to Australia's economy which is highly dependent on exporting raw materials such as bauxite and iron ore to both China and India. All questions I intend to answer once done with this post.

You say "I guess I really want to work" YOU GUESS?! Oh so tomorrow you might like to be superman, but only as long as the bad guys take a day off? You want to work on a team and gain skills and insights into the trading world, well my friend, it is time to roll up your sleeves and get busy. Its time to put up or shut up, go big or go home. There are a few members here to keep an eye on, Ronald Raygun is definitely someone to model yourself after. The guy is maybe 20 now (though I think he is still 19) and just seems to kick ass at whatever he does (and has working experience at a major trading firm, but he didnt get it by sitting back and waiting for it), and if I remember correctly it was ballroom dancing that got him that job. That brings up another point, connections. You are going to need them so start making them. Keep business cards, email them every now and then. Go to linkedin and find traders who would be willing to give you some words of advice. Dont wait for the people to find you, go and find them, show initiative, it goes a lot further than you might realize!

Anyways, that was a lot of info, digest it, take a walk or maybe a nap, think about this some. Ive been up earlier than you, and I will probably go to sleep later than you. Because today my friend, you will not outsmart me because Ive got the passion, need, and desire to succeed at almost any cost. And if you want it too you better get it together.

Thinkman I think they will be more interested in a profitable account balance of 6 months with low draw down than anything else.

That's just what I think though, Ive never been employed as a trader before Im in the same boat as you but engineering instead of graphic design.

If your ready to apply and move to london right away then you can PM me and ill forward some contacts of job offers I've found on my searches on the internet.

traderjai Ive noticed experts on Bloomberg have been talking about a housing bubble in china for at least a couple of years now.

when china does slow down its growth or the housing bubble bursts Ill start accumulating shorts on AUD.

Hopefully it will happen separately to the second wave down on USD and GBP.

I do expect India to pick up in the future when china starts to flag, purely from the demographics, the population is much younger in India, and China is gonna have twice as many pensioners as workers in the future. However India has much higher debt than china at the moment.

I had a nice chart of countries that have defaulted and faced hyper inflation over the past 100 years or so but can't find it at the moment, its well worth looking for.

Anyway Brazil is one of the biggest repeat offenders but always bounces back fast because of its vast natural resources and I think this is going to play a much more important role with the whole anti-carbon green obsession becoming more prominent.

They have some businesses now which are growing vast amounts of teak and other rare woods which sell for a fortune when they reach maturity. If you can watch channel 4 OD from where you are there was a show called around the world in 80 trades where a guy did very well from visiting one of those businesses and resold the teak in UK.

If you don't mind dabbling with other markets one of the best ways Ive found to play the commodity cycle is the dry shipping industry, add DRYS and DSX to your watch list, take a look on google finance.

DRYS for example went from $9 in 2006 to $123 in 2007 granted shipping companies are well known for going under in hard times, but when the commodities take off they can't cope with the amount of requests and rapidly expand their fleets.

Not sure what it's like in the UK, but in the US, what matters more isn't your track record, but how well you execute orders. General rule of thumb, fund managers make the calls, traders execute those calls for the best price possible. And there are ways to get the best price (google it, I'm not doing all the work for you. )