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My 5 Min Trading Learning Process & Thoughts

  • #41
  • Mar 29, 2010 8:31am Mar 29, 2010 8:31am
Quoting neutro
Lovejoy, a correction is in place if I'm not mistaking, please.

The hours of trading, aren't they 8am to 7pm GMT+2? I think the broker you're on is on GMT+2, using PST closing time. (12am GMT+2 is 5pm PST).
Yep, I normally trade 8-7 my broker time which is 6am to 5pm local time (GMT), my broker is FxPro which is GMT+2
  • #42
  • Edited 1:26pm Mar 29, 2010 12:53pm | Edited 1:26pm
As I started trading late I finished late too plus had some positions on and wanted to to see how far the trend would go. But I'm busy rest of the evening so updated results and produced analysis straightaway.

Definitely the worse day I've had so far but I still made a tiny profit for the day! Missed the easy trend at teh start of the day , took a bad trade but regained some pips with the main downtrend of the day, although I could have got in earlier and missed a potential additional short entry...plus could have held onto shorts longer.

I decided to go live on a tiny Oanda subaccount today, found an old account and put £50 into it and so am risking 50p (i.e.1% per trade) and the results attached are the resulted achieved.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EU_5min_-_market_analysis_-_29-03-2010.png Size: 116 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: EU_5min_-_market_analysis(2)_-_29-03-2010.png Size: 103 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls EU - 5mins trade log.xls   71 KB | 261 downloads
  • #43
  • Mar 29, 2010 3:46pm Mar 29, 2010 3:46pm
Really enjoying this thread Mark. I felt today was a tough one to figure out with all the choppiness. You managed it well though. Well done!
  • #44
  • Mar 29, 2010 4:22pm Mar 29, 2010 4:22pm
Quoting Jduester
Really enjoying this thread Mark. I felt today was a tough one to figure out with all the choppiness. You managed it well though. Well done!
Thanks Josh.

Yes today was not easy, in fact the best trends off the day were @ London open and over the last few hours - price made 5 HH's and 5HL's in a row. In between the trend was down but it was a choppy trend - that's part of the mechanics off the 5 min timeframe not alwasy a nice smooth trend as you get more noise but virtually everyday you do get a nice tend where profit can be made it's just knowing when not to trade and when to trade...which is always easier in hindsight.

I also had to overcome emotions today. When I was in the shorts approaching 1.34500 I could see it was an obvious PPZ and when it didnt push through quickly and started to retrace I had to think quickly whether to close or let it play out. I decided to close but I had to decide whether the charts was teling me to close or the fact that I'd had a few losses earlier in the day and had a nice profit sitting here was telling me to close...had to deliberate this in 90seconds. I should have left them open (from a maximising my P&L in retrospect perspective) but I decided that my decsion was based on trading my charts and not my P&L as price could have easily retraced a fair bit from that PPZ and it was prudent to take profit.

It is much easier on the higher time frames to have a trading plan and deliberate amendments to it...whereas on the 5min when trend trading you have to give what the market give to you and you have to make these decisions very quickly, plus you can have a string of losses in a very small time period whereas obvously on the higher time frames these occur over a longe period and thus potentially have a lower psychological affect.

Anyay enough rambling, thanks for the message , I've read your journal too.

I won't be trading tomorrow as I'm out for half the day and prefer to take the whole day off rather than just trying to trade a small part of the day.

All the best
Mark
  • #45
  • Mar 30, 2010 11:11am Mar 30, 2010 11:11am
Well I chose a bad day not to trade...today had the potential to produce some excellent results as there was one big main trend for the major part of the day. Keeping it simple and just riding a trend and adding in positions really is one of the easiest ways of making some large gains.

I did some calculations and assuming normal spread and conservative on enties I would have taken the following six trades from downtrend marked in the chart. (I would have taken three longs at the start of the day but these would have been stoppe dout for a net BE).

1.3511 SL 17
1.3486 SL 17
1.3464 SL 28
1.3459 SL 22
1.3438 SL 19
1.3422 SL 28

If I closed on a bounce from the RN @ 1.3400 @ 1.3405, this would have resulted in a %R for the day off 17.91! (6.24, 4.76, 2.11, 2.45, 1.74, 0.61)

Now obviously these trends do not occur like this everyday, but they occur frequently enough on the EU, it's a great trendy pair with small spreads. You normally get some sort of trend in a day sometimes this trhend lasts for the major part of the day like today and other times we just get some small trends, but either way by keeping it simple and just trading what you see you can definitely make some brilliant returns on the time frame - all I am doing at the moment is applying part of what I do on the higher timeframes with the same %R but obviously in 1 day rather than over 1week, months etc.

I'll be back trading tomorrow...bet we get a really choppy bad day and I lose eery trade now lol!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EU_5min_-_market_analysis_-_29-03-2010.png Size: 119 KB
  • #46
  • Mar 30, 2010 1:17pm Mar 30, 2010 1:17pm
Hi,
nice analyse of chart! Love to read your posts. Can you share your dot indicator, which mark highs and lows? Thanks and keep your thread update.
  • #47
  • Mar 30, 2010 1:40pm Mar 30, 2010 1:40pm
Quoting dzero
Hi,
nice analyse of chart! Love to read your posts. Can you share your dot indicator, which mark highs and lows? Thanks and keep your thread update.
Check out post 32
  • #48
  • Mar 30, 2010 2:06pm Mar 30, 2010 2:06pm
Thanks a lot to you and Iamfx! How i miss that
  • #49
  • Mar 31, 2010 1:17am Mar 31, 2010 1:17am
Back trading today and am strongly bearish EU (well, isn't everyone) and added another longer timeframe position last night (daily BEOB) although we could see another leg up to 1.3600 area first before we form a new low for the year IMO.
  • #50
  • Mar 31, 2010 4:58am Mar 31, 2010 4:58am
Ha, did I say bearish

Have noticed a potential problem with using different platforms for trading and charts when tradng small timeframes. Went and put a pending order long @ 1.3470 which was 2 pips above latest peak on FxPro but on Oanda the high was 1.3472 and thus trade was activated straightaway as the price was @ 1.3470 compared to a.3468 on Fxpro - no difference in the typical spread - Oanda has smaller spread than Fxpro (typically).

Might start to just use Oanda charts from tomorrow as only thing I cant plot is pivots and from what I've seen this week they are useful to be aware off but dont seem to be that effective to base trades off - i.e. not powerfull PPZ's (from the small amount of data I've seen thus far).

I really like Oanda as a trading platform, no minimum pending order distance (that really bugs me about MT4) nearly always get filled at stated price (again much better than MT4), the only thing good about MT4 IMO is the charts and indicators / EA's etc.
  • #51
  • Mar 31, 2010 7:26am Mar 31, 2010 7:26am
Quoting lovejoy80
This thread is my way of learning how to trade the 5 / 15min (mainly 5min) timeframe using the principles with which I trade the longer (1H,4H,daily, weekly) timeframes.

This is a journal to detail my current thoughts and ongoing thoughts, discoveries, experiences as I learn, analyse and demo more and more on this timeframe.

How Do I Currently Trade The Longer Timeframes:

The folling other threads have an influence on how I trade the higher timeframes:

1. James 16 Chart Thread
2. Jacko's Forex House of Pleasure and Pain
3....
Trading 5/15min is one of the best way to build a mini account.
I have been on the 5/15min account and it' as help me to build my account.
Trading Eur/Usd to on 5/15min chart has help to be in long position since morning 8am.

Tunmike
  • #52
  • Mar 31, 2010 9:11am Mar 31, 2010 9:11am
I think you'll average 50% today. Too bad that beauty of a pin on EURUSD M30 was during my sleepy time.

Days like this are hard to find, but when they do come...
  • #53
  • Mar 31, 2010 9:17am Mar 31, 2010 9:17am
Quoting neutro
I think you'll average 50% today. Too bad that beauty of a pin on EURUSD M30 was during my sleepy time.

Days like this are hard to find, but when they do come...
Lol...you'd think that you couldn't lose money today wouldn't you looking at the 5min chart...one trend all day so far, but i fu*ked up earlier and managed to lose money will explain all later in my daily summary.

Yeah we had a 30min pin or a 1H BUOB on strong PPZ right at the start of this uptrend...I was asleep too then.
  • #54
  • Mar 31, 2010 9:30am Mar 31, 2010 9:30am
Quoting lovejoy80
Lol...you'd think that you couldn't lose money today wouldn't you looking at the 5min chart...one trend all day so far, but i fu*ked up earlier and managed to lose money will explain all later in my daily summary.

Yeah we had a 30min pin or a 1H BUOB on strong PPZ right at the start of this uptrend...I was asleep too then.
Well.. better days will come we just have to be there to catch them.

I have to adjust my sleeping time it seems.. But I love sleep too much
  • #55
  • Mar 31, 2010 10:28am Mar 31, 2010 10:28am
Quoting lovejoy80
Lol...you'd think that you couldn't lose money today wouldn't you looking at the 5min chart...one trend all day so far, but i fu*ked up earlier and managed to lose money will explain all later in my daily summary.

Yeah we had a 30min pin or a 1H BUOB on strong PPZ right at the start of this uptrend...I was asleep too then.
It can happen. I took two e/u short trades today for losses . Am about b/e for the day and thinking I better quit now...

I haven't seen a whole lot of pa in the trend direction on 5min though... entering on new highs would have worked quite well though from what I know about it.
  • #56
  • Mar 31, 2010 1:37pm Mar 31, 2010 1:37pm
Quoting Jduester
It can happen. I took two e/u short trades today for losses . Am about b/e for the day and thinking I better quit now...

I haven't seen a whole lot of pa in the trend direction on 5min though... entering on new highs would have worked quite well though from what I know about it.
No, not any PA that I saw on the 5min EU - well, taking new highs should have been very profitable but you can muck this up too lol! I didnt take any PA today just breaks of highs on this timeframe.
  • #57
  • Mar 31, 2010 1:47pm Mar 31, 2010 1:47pm
Market analysis for today's trades attached together with updated log. As you will see I've changed to log to input my actual P/L from my very small live Oanda account. I am using £50 and risking approximately 1% i.e. 50p per trade - I take the nearer unit size to the round number so it's not exact. So for today you can see I made 1.71% - not particularly good considering that there was one main trend all day!

My first mistake was made before I even made a trade - I didnt do a proper analysis of the higher time frames and I missed the BUOB (or 30min pin) on the 1HR with divergence @ the strong PPZ - I would have taken this if I'd seen it and then I could have just added positions on the 5min timeframe, but I didnt look for it and so instead of knowing with a high probability what direction the market will be going today I put out a 'feeler' trade short to see if I was right - should have risk 1/4 of normal position though (this is a style described in ROASO which I think is pretty sensible).

Overall I moved my SL too close to my price and should have given the price more room, shouldn't have tried to be a 'hero' and pick a change in direction witha crappy pin. I still strongly think that just riding a trend until the trend changes is the best way to trade the EU on 5 min from what I've seen so far...if a very good PA setup occurs I'd take that but trading breakouts and a trend for me is the way to go at the moment...the good thing about EU is that there always seems to be some sort of trade during the day...today it lasted all day on all timeframes but mostly you get the chance to grab a few R on a small trend and this makes your profit for the day.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EU_comment_31-03-2010.png Size: 65 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: EU_5min_-_market_analysis(1)_-_31-03-2010.png Size: 129 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: EU_5min_-_market_analaysis(2)_-_31-03-2010.png Size: 103 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls EU - 5mins trade log.xls   90 KB | 274 downloads
  • #58
  • Apr 1, 2010 1:26am Apr 1, 2010 1:26am
My bias for eU is defintely short today.


Look at the charts below - price has retraced and stalled @ 50% fib on 4H recent swings - 1.3500 is a PPZ area and price has started to retrace down through it anmd we had divergence at the top. Zooming into the 1HR we have a pin bar at the top of this up move (missed this as it was in Asian market) - could we have teh same move we had yesterday but in the opposite direction - yesterays move was started on PA off the lower TF too...

Currently short below the 1.3500 area on 5 min (ignore sell and sell order on chart - that is not in relation to this timeframe and thread).
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eu1.gif Size: 20 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: eu.gif Size: 18 KB
  • #59
  • Apr 1, 2010 2:39am Apr 1, 2010 2:39am
Not trying to be an as*hole, but sometimes a different perspective is all it takes.

Like yesterday, try not having a bias. Trade what you see, not what you feel. If you start the day thinking "I THINK it's going to go down today" then no matter what the charts will tell you that day you will be prone to going down more than up. And that will hurt you in the long run (if not sooner).

Just my 2 bani (that's the romanian cents)

Oh yeah, and we're heading into easter.. Markets tend to be erratic
  • #60
  • Apr 1, 2010 3:07am Apr 1, 2010 3:07am
Quoting neutro
Not trying to be an as*hole, but sometimes a different perspective is all it takes.

Like yesterday, try not having a bias. Trade what you see, not what you feel. If you start the day thinking "I THINK it's going to go down today" then no matter what the charts will tell you that day you will be prone to going down more than up. And that will hurt you in the long run (if not sooner).

Just my 2 bani (that's the romanian cents)

Oh yeah, and we're heading into easter.. Markets tend to be erratic
Hey, thanks for the message - you make a very valid point...having a bias in your head is an influence which can affect your trading decisions in a negative way as it clouds the ability to trade what you see as you tend to trade what you expect.

I think I was a bit careless in my statement, I didn't mean I'm only looking for shorts...it's just my bias on ERU o longer tiome frames is short and I have multiple shorts on the go from the start of the downtrend...but obviously on a small timeframe like the 5 min you get many trends in both directions regardless of the higher time frame...thus although I'e had 2 winning shorts this morning on the 5min I'm quite ready to take a long if my charts show that I should - in fact we've now had 3 HL and HH's on the 5min timframe so I'm looking for a long on the break of the last HH

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