Meditation & Trading?

What if I got enlighten, and than sudenly all of this becomes irelavant to me!????

So many parallels between meditation and trading, they make excellent companions! As far as learning what you need to begin mediating/trading, there are countless different systems, many of which contradict the others, many of which claim to be a sure-fire road to success, many of which are being peddled for high fees...

Ultimately, both disciplines are focused on learning more about yourself and harnessing that knowledge to improve your quality of life. More important than a specific trading system or brand of meditation is your developing self-awareness... No one system will suit everyone, but all are headed roughly in the direction of this common goal.

I urge anyone interested in learning about meditation to get stuck in. My scepticism was gone in a matter of days, and you're likely to find a teacher near you who is offering their decades of experience at a very reasonable price. In many cases, I believe the best training is generously given away for a reasonably price by the truly satisfied. Many websites selling new takes on spiritualism look very similar to my eyes as those dodgy forex signal sites we occasionally [accidentally] stumble upon.

Although Transcendental Meditation has been enriching my life for some time now, I know others for whom it did not have such a profound effect for a variety of reasons. Some have now found a more niche school of meditation that delivered what they were searching for... each to their own.

Happy trading and meditating to all at FF.

Give thanks when that happens. Because then it's not about the money and that's when the money seems to come easier. Not that I"m enlightened or anything.. far from it. But once I changed my goals for trading and research, things sort of took off on their own and my trading improved drastically. It's when I focus on the money that I typically start screwing things up.

I'll also give a voucher for Silva. I"m not to the point where Lou is but I've had some interesting experiences with it in the few months I've been into it.

I also need to check out the Holosync stuff Dopey's on. Sounds interesting although possibly a bit messy.

Thanks, JR, it's appreciated.

.....looks like Dopey fired up this discussion a bit again. Thanks. Having just returned from a 10 day Vipassana meditation course, (completely free of charge and I'll state why in a bit), there is an acute clarity which arises when one can gently and regularly overcome the compulsive activities of the human mind, arising from dealing with the framework our culture deposits on us and expects of us. This is the fifth time I have done this course since 1995 and although there are a hundred doors that open to the same sanctuary, some groups are completely non-profit, are usually unconcerned with paper with numbers on it coming from your pockets and into their accounts, and are much more concerned that one leave with a technique that allows one to begin to supervise the relentless chatter that plagues the vast majority of human minds.

When one begins to open the doors to a much deeper perception (outside of the socially / culturally conditioned explanations of who you are) by learning how to purposefully slow the wheels of the mind, a "knowing" stillness starts to emerge within an individual and then, curiously, many of the definitions that we have been fed through our entire life from society, mass media, political influencers, organized religion, fundamentalist science, our unenlightened parents, etc. start to fall away, like scales from one's eyes. Children don't bother you as much, the preachers and politicians on TV or elsewhere begin to echo with a clear but resounding emptiness, our spouses and bosses and neighbors just aren't as irritating as they were and it is much easier to see that everyone is on an individual journey. This individual journey of self discovery, which passes all the same milestones that both ancients and moderns have experienced when one rolls back the waves of the busy, frustrated mind, and finds itself on a much quieter, less judgmental path. Your co-workers aren't as irritating, your trades aren't as messy, your discipline is more focused and less opinionated. Judgement (being right) starts to die, like vines cut from the root.

Organizations like Vipassana meditation centers (and many other methods which are just as noble in helping to bring methods to quiet the mind) are free because for a few thousand years, those curious seekers in the East who were daring enough to gamble with the accepted definition their society gave them of Life and discovered that something occurred when thinking momentarily ceased. (It has happened in the West as well). Many noticed that there was a clarity of understanding of the bigger perspectives which quickly took wings and the travelers on this journey all make testament to the harmonious awareness that arises, whether in 300 BC or in 2009 AD. Spouses noticed changes, co-workers noticed more receptivity, neighbors noticed more tolerance and individuals noticed less greed and manipulation to gain temporary and quickly passing control. They wanted to pass this on to those who were open enough to listen.

Vipassana is a Pali word which means "to see things as they really are". It is also used to describe a type of meditation technique that helps assist this event. There are others as well, like Zen, TM, etc. which also can do the same thing with slightly different methods but with the same results if it is approached with a steadfast and forgiving mind. Vipassana is free because when goes away for 10 days meditates for 12 hours a day and doesn't speak to another for 9 of those 10 days, very interesting changes start to take root in the psyche of an individual and upon returning, one becomes a center of tolerance, understanding, peace and ultimately, with a continuance in development and practice, pure love.

Money can't buy these things. They don't want your money. Upon completion of a 10 day course you can leave a donation if you want but they will not even take a donation from a single person who has not yet sat a 10 day course. It is because of the opening in the awareness that starts to occurs when one does such a course, that their generosity allows you to freely take or discard some of the benefits that occurr when thinking slows down or ceases.

I apologize for being a bit long winded as I am still learning to say things more accurately with fewer words. I am not promoting this meditation technique, (it doesn't need any promotion), but am speaking of it as a way to improve so many of the aspects of one's relationship with Life, let alone, trading and it's own funny techniques. That comes as a by-product. When one does not have to be right, it is easier to fall into that position of being on the side of right, but you don't really care about being right that much, but more about being able to respond (responsible). Then, the blah, blah, blah from Bloomberg, CNBC or elsewhere quietly loses as much importance on one's trading methodologies and, more importantly, in one's inner life. And the quiet tune in your own being becomes more noticible both in operating a trade and operating one's life.

I like sharing these things, as I believe they are much closer to the true experience of being a human be-ing, and the gathering of a bunch of numbers in an electronic account rings a bit shallow in the totality of the journey we all are on. Hope it brings a small amount of light.

Shut off the mind and see what remains, there's more than you think,

pipsqueak4x

BTW, I also enjoy and use modern brainwave entrainment techniques to assist in my meditation as it can quickly help slow and maintain the wheels of thought and get into Theta and Delta, where my best creation occurs.

hello everyone,
my personal thoughts on meditation and how it can relate to trading:
first of all i am happy there are people on FF. that practice their minds for a better life and better trading offcourse.

when i was very young (8,9 years old) i was very interested in buddhism and meditation, my mother told me there where many dangerous ways to practice, esspecialy yoga-like techniques that are very very powerfull. she said: " always keep it simple"... KISS.

she then knew then what i know now that there are people who make lots of money teaching acient methods (or their own modern versions) wich used to be teached after initiation, by a teacher who knew the student is ready. now these are on the internet or on expensive cd-rom. some methods discussed on this thread seem dangerous to me but if you are feeling good i guess you where ready for it.
i
personaly would only thrust my mind and my life in the hands of a master/teacher with clear lineage many hundreds of years back. i have not found a teacher yet.
the way i used to practice is count my breathing from 1 to 10. sometimes i could but it was very difficult.
my breath was not something nice to focus on.
i noticed that with music on (deversion) i could count my breath 1 to 10 with no problem.

on how i practice now i would like to post 2 links, if you read these you know what i talk about after.

http://www.koreanbuddhism.net/life/f...=&search_value
http://www.koreanbuddhism.net/life/e...t_seq=0&page=1

Why does this bowing work for me? i said before "my breath was not something nice to focus on" i realy believe this is because all my bad habits ( drinking, smoking, stress, fear, agression....karma) affected my breathing.... my belly was hard.

bowing 108 times a day makes my belly soft like a baby to enjoy breathing , strengthens my back to sit up straight.
i guess more (relaxed) oxygen for your brain should be a good enough reason for why meditation can be helpfull to trading.

this is the simple way i think about meditation. maybe boring to some here.

kind greetings

pax

Another exercise to do during meditation is ecstatic body postures. You play a metronome or other simple beat at 210 bpm while you hold still in various ancient (precivilization, excludes India etc.) postures. The beat sends your brain into theta while your mind zooms in a different direction for each posture; there's a theme to each posture, also, according to books on it.

Also there's the book Extreme Spirituality, which says of different meditative actions to reprogram one's reticular activating system. In one, you get worked up into a mood with others' encouraging and pull a one-armed bandit, and more often than not, win. If trading were that easy..

Emotional Freedom Technique or EFT is widely popular among those who want to overcome negative energy channeling the subconscious minds. People are raving about this, I wonder how many forex traders are using this today?

http://www.forextradingseminar.com/b...ers-using-eft/

I'ld say that this is possibly the most important thread in this forum. Master the stilling of the mind and you will quickly master the market.

Interesting. I spent some time with a martial artist guru dude and he did a lot of similar stuff teaching us about energy points and energy flows through the body.

We did some interesting experiments with music. He would have us hold a stack of books out in front of us and then play different types of music. When Baroque music was playing he would press down on the books and it wasn't too hard to resist and keep them up. But when he put on some heavy metal, he'd barely touch the books and you'd drop them.

We also did some experiments with disrupting the energy flows while doing the book hold experiment and the results were the same. I used to disrupt the energy flows of the other guy in the face off circle playing hockey. worked every time.

Another very interesting post I found here:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...15&postcount=1

Trading is meditation, believe me you cannot practice meditation to trade,

Sticking to your plan, following your rules, to be not greedy and such, that's meditation, that's business of trading.

It is simple, the trade which you make wrongly, is not meditation too.

One relies on an informed gut instinct to help make trading decisions.
There are certain body psychology methods
that reveal how a concept or setting can interfere with or hone in for one's performance during a familiar activity.

-- Applied Kinesiology, in which one says a word and weakens at a point on one's body; it's at once for experts and simple, the latter exactly as described. Then one uses other points on one's body to correct for that mindbody weakness.
-- Sensate Focus, which deals with releasing trash programs from one's cartilage; the process may take lots of repetition. You sit still, imagine a point that hurts in one's body, and think of what it reminds oneself of, working to release the thought and its physical manifestation.
-- Freeze Frame, a HeartMath meditation, where, as I recall, one is in the midst of a stressful situation and, imagining one's breath is going through one's heart, remembers another, similar situation that one handled very well.
-- Continuum, a freeform dance-like movement in which one's thoughts about a topic guide one's purposely almost-random -- which isolates one's actions to respond to the topic -- motions.
-- Painful cartilagal points one begins to discover lie in a path on one's body, through Anatomy Trains, and continues through remembering when the related pain first began.
-- A simple release of a stuck fight-or-flight response, through recalling the details of when the event that created the being stuck happened (found in several modes of psychology, such as the otherwise off-the-wall (and rich) Dianetics and also the very mainstream freudian talk psychology.)
-- Lying down and allowing one to physically move according to each spontaneous neuro-physical response. What happens is that, not only does a general clearing of nervousness happen, but that, at least after several sessions, certain scenarios that focused on the body recently are run though in a series of complex and discrete physical responses. I call it neuro-shaking, and like to combine it with ear acupressure, holding the tips of one's fingers apart .1" away from each other, and tui na (fingers).
-- Study a chart or other active pathway of an object until one can physically feel how it'll go next,
that is, as one's cartilage activates from one point along the vertical middle of the gastrointestinal system to a next.
This can be contracted to how one kinaesthetically thinks inside of oneself and thus in physical patterns
or expanded to how the object continues / price action goes as already partially explained.
-- Zen, which releases whatever mind chatter is happening at the time, so that one may focus on a single object or task now at hand.
An opposite to this is Image Stream, which leverages expressing (to a second entity or recording device) that same mind chatter in a very detailed way so that one eventually finds the single object or task that deserves the highest priority as one decides what to do next.
A similar is progressive relaxation, which reduces inner physical distractions to allow the brain to get into an 'empty-mind' state for meditation.
-- a scripted meditation such as self-hypnosis, which can repath a thinking process with objects and actions that trigger responses both acceptable and usual to oneself.
Extreme Spirituality is an active version of this.
A related meditation is what I call a social meditation, where one imagines one is talking to another, wiser person, who then helps one find the answer one was looking for. In The Einstein Factor, 'Garden' with well-read biographies of famous people can be an effective meditation.
Another such meditation is Ecstatic Postures, which doesn't precisely correlate with the more modern trading but may inform about risk or other more general topic.
Some yoga (a field which goes much further than I can possibly relate; an instance, for guiding one's trading, may be the list here) also explores this path of general topics, perhaps for idealistic values (referring only to a book on kundalini yoga) rather than a concrete scenario exploration that the former does in one's mind.

i used to stay in thai monastery for 30 days many year ago to practise meditation

after that i wrote down the effects of my daily life and work for the next 3 months

1. my overall focus and concentration was improved
2. thinking about problems was easier and clearer
3. better quality of communications with others
4. no problems with waking up early in the morning
5. improved self-confidence
6. lack of interest in buying things i don't need
7. absence of self-destructive feelings like jealousy, greed and fear

i did not trade at this time but i am sure it would have helped me to improve my trading to make better trade decisions and to have no problems with emotions, staying away from greed and fear decisions

unfortunately after i stopped meditating at least 1h every day this benefits eventually dissapeared

Interesting views in this thread. I've been experimenting a lot with meditation, brainwave entrainment and supplements to enhance focus, keep emotions in check and even increase iq a little... For me brainwave entrainment is a must for trading. For those who do not know what it is - basically its listening to sound impulses(though you can modify music to do the same, as it is the case with the holosync series I think, so you don't have to listen only to fast beats). The brain synchronizes to them by adjusting its brain waves to the frequency of the pulses. So with brainwave entrainment you have a direct influence on the frequency your brain is working at while listening. And this can be a great addition to trading. An additional effect is that mostly you should listen to brainwave entrainment with earphones, that way you get virtually disconnected from the rest of the world, and while trading, well.. you simply dive in and it is much easier to follow rules (thats my experience with beta brainwaves). The main trading effect it had on me was reducing my unwanted emotions that affect my trading, while increasing my focus and concentration. Good old meditation is great too, but unlike brainwave entrainment you have to practice to get the benefits. Not that I think be is superior, the effects are there right away. I think meditation is better for lasting effects, but it takes time to get them in the first place... There are other applications for be, such as chilling down after trading, or helping the brain to process data from recent events (learning, or new trading situations) more quickly. or to learn more easily. It really depends on the task on hand to decide what brainwaves you would like to entrain your brain in(delta, theta, alpha, beta, gamma). Even combiations of brainwaves are possible, or different entrainment of the two parts of the brain at the same time. Well... nice stuff to work with.

hm... metidation and trading is a good pair! I'm sure we should combine both for getting an effective result

Hello fellow traders

Meditation in itself aids you in soo many ways you cant even imagine.
When i started, i couldnt figure out what kind of story monks are telling to themselves for the hours they sit there.

But there was no story. Just mind at peace and clarity. Emptiness.

Meditation aids focus, clarity, better decision making, loss of stress, fear, depression etc etc (manifestation...), and sooo many other stuff that cant be fathomed by the rational mind lol.

Someone here stated taht, after meditation the feelings and energized effects fade away.
At first that is true! That is becouse your body and your mind isn't ready.
Sooner or later life will become meditation by itself, and you will feel like you never need to sleep (thats how i feel now).

Just sit comfortably, close your eyes and breath.
Be aware of your breathing. Dont analyze it, dont put any thoughts to it.
Just breath, feel it how it moves.(Inhale - feel the wave moving up your body, ex-hale - moving down your body, if you cant do it first time, dont force it. ). And do it as long as your comfortable, everyday.

Put the rational mind away (thoughts), if you feel bored - that is an indication that your rational mind is present. LET IT GO!!


THe best part of a traders yourney is loosing the EGO. Many dont realise that. Which doesnt really matter xD.
Since you need to overcome yourself, your thoughts, your emotions, you need to let go and understand that you CAN'T command the market but abide to it, which is the most problem by MANY (even myself).

LOVE and PROSPERITY to ya all
MIKY

P.S.: aha! just noticed. While meditating you can easily just put some brain-entrainment/frequencies ON and be aware of them if its easier to you. Inducement of brain frequencies work by itself, but its even MORE powerful if listened with awareness.