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Stating The Obvious and The Quest For Wisdom

  • #841
  • Mar 18, 2010 11:40am Mar 18, 2010 11:40am
One thing I have been thinking about is the control you have when going for 20 pips, you are in and out the market in minutes.

Its hard enough to try and predict what is going to happen in the next few minutes, but I think with experience and information it can be achieved a high percentage of the time.

Trying to predict what will happen in a day or two or 3 months would seem to be much much more difficult.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #842
  • Mar 18, 2010 11:42am Mar 18, 2010 11:42am
Quoting SunTrader
We are in a wave 4 correction (on a short term level) so I wouldn't expect 1.36 to hold.
I had a long and got margined 50% out by Oanda (on my 100 buck account lol). Ill be sticking to in and out shots risking a few %.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #843
  • Mar 18, 2010 11:50am Mar 18, 2010 11:50am
Quoting Scotty B
Classic. Seriously classic. If you don't know why or how you doubled your small account with the DOM overnight then you are probably gonna have a real painful experience with your trading real soon. I say if you want to gamble wit style then go to Vegas.

see the thing is, i do know how i doubled my account. at least what he showed me the basic concept im talkin about worked

what i dont know is whether i just got lucky or somethin
and thats what im tryin to figure out

and when it comes to scalping, big amounts is what makes sense otherwise theres no point in it. so no its not gambling. plus i dont like vegas for some reason. too many lights
  • #844
  • Mar 18, 2010 12:17pm Mar 18, 2010 12:17pm
Quoting boxingislife
see the thing is, i do know how i doubled my account.
Well give some to markmm, he just got a margin call!
  • #845
  • Mar 18, 2010 12:19pm Mar 18, 2010 12:19pm
Quoting markmm
One thing I have been thinking about is the control you have when going for 20 pips, you are in and out the market in minutes.

Its hard enough to try and predict what is going to happen in the next few minutes, but I think with experience and information it can be achieved a high percentage of the time.

Trying to predict what will happen in a day or two or 3 months would seem to be much much more difficult.
Intraday, sure, but longer term there's no need to predict, why not just follow the trend?
  • #846
  • Mar 18, 2010 12:23pm Mar 18, 2010 12:23pm
Quoting pipmutt
Well give some to markmm, he just got a margin call!
Yeah I need 60 pounds. Trading without stops at least oanda spared me. Although I can't say I've blown my account to people.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #847
  • Mar 18, 2010 12:28pm Mar 18, 2010 12:28pm
Quoting pipmutt
Intraday, sure, but longer term there's no need to predict, why not just follow the trend?
Which one weekly,,daily, 4 hr?
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #848
  • Mar 18, 2010 12:29pm Mar 18, 2010 12:29pm
Quoting Peke5
Stop hunt ATM eur/usd
There were probably stops hit, which added a bit of momentum, but a stop hunt? Mind you having said that, it would have been a nice quick ~30 or so pips as price approached 1.36, as was pointed out earlier around big figures.
  • #849
  • Mar 18, 2010 12:33pm Mar 18, 2010 12:33pm
I think for me I need to watch the charts when I'm trading, problem is I work 9 - 5 in uk so miss the busiest period of fx activity. Once my current contract ends I'll get a chance but until then I'll be researching.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #850
  • Mar 18, 2010 12:35pm Mar 18, 2010 12:35pm
Quoting markmm
Which one weekly,,daily, 4 hr?
Take your pick, I'd say daily if there's a nice trend on the daily, maybe use 4 hr for entry.

Hey and you trying to get me in trouble with Scotty, talking about TA! It's not me Scotty, I was led astray by mark!
  • #851
  • Mar 18, 2010 12:41pm Mar 18, 2010 12:41pm
Quoting Darkstar
I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said. If you can make money doing basic TA or scalping the DOM or watching the fundies... Go do it. I'm not here to prove anyones system wrong. I'm here to show people how I trade. If you don't believe in anything I'm saying, thats your choice but it isn't going to impact MY bottom line or the bottom line of anyone who chooses to believe it.

At this point, in my opinion, anyone posting their criticisms or challenges regarding orderflow are only doing so to stroke their own ego. Their challenges do nothing...
It seems anytime "orderflow" is mentioned a few people get drawn here to do nothing but stealthily troll. Some of us most save others from themselves it seems.
  • #852
  • Mar 18, 2010 1:04pm Mar 18, 2010 1:04pm
Quoting Darkstar
http://www.darkstarforex.com/chart.png[
these trades, mainly the second one, looks trading with the defenders.
  • #853
  • Mar 18, 2010 1:23pm Mar 18, 2010 1:23pm
Quoting Deusomega
It seems anytime "orderflow" is mentioned a few people get drawn here to do nothing but stealthily troll. Some of us most save others from themselves it seems.
People who think about strategies like this when they're discussed on forums rather than accept them on face value justifiably question the potential of one which seems to a certain extent to rely on something which doesn't exist, namely DOM. In fact why on earth trade a market where you have less information at all, wouldn't strategies like this be better suited to exchange traded instruments?

What I can't understand is the reluctance to address the issues raised, like I said before it's hardly revealing an edge as the observations are pretty basic, unless the reason is obvious and I'm giving people too much credit?
  • #854
  • Mar 18, 2010 1:27pm Mar 18, 2010 1:27pm
Quoting giraia_br
these trades, mainly the second one, looks trading with the defenders.
That was a longer term trade, as you can see by how long the trade was (is?) held. Therefore this is not an option defense/attack trade or stop run at all.
All I ask for is a chance to prove that money cannot make me happy.
  • #855
  • Mar 18, 2010 1:32pm Mar 18, 2010 1:32pm
Quoting Marsh
That was a longer term trade, as you can see by how long the trade was (is?) held. Therefore this is not an option defense/attack trade or stop run at all.
i know. But by definition, it was trading with the defenders. Maybe there was info that althought it was a option level, there was no defender there. I can imagine a reason, but can't be sure of it.
  • #856
  • Mar 18, 2010 1:53pm Mar 18, 2010 1:53pm
Quoting giraia_br
i know. But by definition, it was trading with the defenders. Maybe there was info that althought it was a option level, there was no defender there. I can imagine a reason, but can't be sure of it.
Not every move is defenders or hunters, there are other market participants that can move price.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #857
  • Mar 18, 2010 2:56pm Mar 18, 2010 2:56pm
Quoting pipmutt
People who think about strategies like this when they're discussed on forums rather than accept them on face value justifiably question the potential of one which seems to a certain extent to rely on something which doesn't exist, namely DOM. In fact why on earth trade a market where you have less information at all, wouldn't strategies like this be better suited to exchange traded instruments?

What I can't understand is the reluctance to address the issues raised, like I said before it's hardly revealing an edge as the observations...
Who is accepting anything on face value? I see most of the people who are interested in this topic reading papers, books, and observing. I know personally I'm not taking anything at face value and not betting real money on anything until I can believe in it. Let anyone else foolhardy enough to trade without doing the same fail and fail hard. I really couldn't care for those out there foolish enough.

People who accept things on face value don't do extra research rather they dive right in with their savings. There is no "system" so there is nothing to accept at face value anyways. For us to accept something at face value would require a "system" to take at face value. We have only comments by DS and hints to resources he uses to make his trade decisions. Sounds to me he is helping guide people on his way of seeing the market which will be useless without time and experience also.

So I see nothing that can literally be taken at face value...I see no brainwashed disciples... because without further research and thought on one's own it's all useless.

So I ask...what has DS said that can be taken at face value without one's own due diligence?

To find any of the stuff DS has said to be helpful one must read, test, and explore...

If you think some of your posts in this thread haven't been trollish then that's fine.. but I find it odd you feel the need to respond when I didn't specify anyone.

You ask for individuals to stop talking crypticly and dangling "carrots"... but no where in this thread does it say its a thread for someone to reveal their trading method... If you don't like all the smoke and mirrors who cares? You aren't entitled to anything. You are a profitable trader with your own way of doing things if you don't like the mystery then get over it and count yourself lucky rather than looking like someone wanting a handout.
  • #858
  • Mar 18, 2010 3:10pm Mar 18, 2010 3:10pm
Quoting pipmutt
People who think about strategies like this when they're...
I think it is totally healthy to question any trading method or view of looking at the market. However what has been presented here is based on facts about the markets structure, it obeys logic and is something that has been mentioned by some of the best traders throughout the years.

When I hear something like "Once price hits the 50 fib and there is divergence go short", I think, why, what reason is there that price should turn around?

When I hear about orderflow trading it makes perfect sense, a bunch of stops being hit will push price in that direction, Im not saying it is a holy grail or is easy to trade but it just fits with my way of thinking and I will be focusing all my efforts on it.

I think you should list the issues you have though so we can move on.

Mark
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #859
  • Mar 18, 2010 3:14pm Mar 18, 2010 3:14pm
Quoting markmm
I think it is totally healthy to question any trading method or view of looking at the market. However what has been presented here is based on facts about the markets structure, it obeys logic and is something that has been mentioned by some of the best traders throughout the years.

When I hear something like "Once price hits the 50 fib and there is divergence go short", I think, why, what reason is there that price should turn around?

When I hear about orderflow trading it makes perfect sense, Im not saying it is a holy grail...
Just to add... TA is something which by its very nature requires a great majority of it to be taken at face value by new traders.
  • #860
  • Mar 18, 2010 3:19pm Mar 18, 2010 3:19pm
Quoting Deusomega
If you think some of your posts in this thread haven't been trollish then that's fine.. but I find it odd you feel the need to respond when I didn't specify anyone.
Let's please respect ScottyB's request and not respond to him. mutt is a professional troll and a passive-aggressive ego-maniac with delusions of grandeur.

mutt is only here to derail the learning and fire up emotions so he can be big man on campus trying to one up DS on every point real or imagined. mutt's butt-kiss followers maybe bogus accounts or really lost people, but either way it's probably best to ignore them all.

Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
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