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Stating The Obvious and The Quest For Wisdom

  • #561
  • Mar 16, 2010 3:59pm Mar 16, 2010 3:59pm
Thanks for all the replies, I think while I still work full time (although I can trade from work as I am self employed) I cant be stating at the DOM all day, maybe between contracts or if I ever do this full time.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #562
  • Mar 16, 2010 4:00pm Mar 16, 2010 4:00pm
Quoting Deusomega
Yes I know what the purpose of iceberg orders are. I was saying it was one of the almost automatic responses whenever someone mentions a DOM in forex. "all big orders are iceberged" so DOM is useless is the usual response from FF.
Yep..And if I didn't make it clear before, if you're shopping for liquidity because you're not a silly little retail trader then DOM is where you look. It's not always that straight forward, sometimes people have to get creative.
  • #563
  • Mar 16, 2010 4:02pm Mar 16, 2010 4:02pm
Quoting Scotty B
It's free if you have a real account with oanda. I don't know about demos. Plus, they offer other analysis from other data vendors as well. Most of it is crap, but sometimes it's at least interesting.
I get it but have been able to save the data into a database (I filter the other 3 sources, DOW etc), and then put my own front end on it as well as use Ninja trader to draw the option lines as they come in.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #564
  • Mar 16, 2010 5:39pm Mar 16, 2010 5:39pm
Its been 6 months or so since I read Trading and Exchanges so Im going to go through it again, then read some of Oslers papers.

See you guys later.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #565
  • Mar 16, 2010 5:55pm Mar 16, 2010 5:55pm
deff an interesting thread

for a while now ive been watching the bids and offers on my futures platform, mainly cable and sometimes gold and dow.

i noticed a couple of things that have helped me make better decisions and get better entries. im not gonna go captain vague on people but because i figured this out on my own i think others can do

watch the larger orders. if 30-40 contracts are happening on different prices, a 100 contracts at a specific price is somethin to keep an eye on.

it moves. watch as it moves and to where


among other thangs.....
  • #566
  • Mar 16, 2010 7:04pm Mar 16, 2010 7:04pm
Quoting boxingislife
deff an interesting thread

for a while now ive been watching the bids and offers on my futures platform, mainly cable and sometimes gold and dow.

i noticed a couple of things that have helped me make better decisions and get better entries. im not gonna go captain vague on people but because i figured this out on my own i think others can do

watch the larger orders. if 30-40 contracts are happening on different prices, a 100 contracts at a specific price is somethin to keep an eye on.

it moves. watch as it moves and to where...
I often see people say that the futures dom is useless but CoT is definitely useful so I'm going to look into the dom as well. As always better to dig into things for yourself than rely on others. I fully agree with the underlined part. I think insights gained through one's own labor are much more valuable than one's that are merely revealed. If you are shown something it is definitely helpful but if you gain insight through your own hard work I thnk it is much more valuable. If someone shows you something then I at least have a tendency to think about it only in that one way. But if I figure something out I never stop thinking and usually figure out other stuff in the process. Like DS says somethings are better not shown and rather better discovered.
  • #567
  • Mar 16, 2010 10:21pm Mar 16, 2010 10:21pm
Quoting boxingislife
deff an interesting thread

for a while now ive been watching the bids and offers on my futures platform, mainly cable and sometimes gold and dow.

i noticed a couple of things that have helped me make better decisions and get better entries. im not gonna go captain vague on people but because i figured this out on my own i think others can do

watch the larger orders. if 30-40 contracts are happening on different prices, a 100 contracts at a specific price is somethin to keep an eye on.

it moves. watch as it moves and to where


among other...
Why do I get the feeling you're all off burning out your retinas?

DOM:

It doesn't mean much until and unless price can run over size. Sometimes a large order will cause price to turn away for a little bit, not really something I'd waste my time with though. Basically, keep an eye on which side of the market is trading and where. You can watch your price chart for this, but as you can now guess, watching price alone is really not enough. DS can do it because he's programmed his mind to see what the chart does when he knows what's going on and whats at stake behind the scenes.

BTW guys and gals. MP and other methods are not IT. IT is simple and requires you to do the hard work and put lots of boring stuff in your heads. MP, DOM, Ect..Will KILL YOU just as fast as everything else if you refuse to learn whats going on.

Remember also that the short term will kill most of you off pretty fast if that's what your motives are. Don't beleive me? Wait and see.
  • #568
  • Mar 16, 2010 10:53pm Mar 16, 2010 10:53pm
Theres a stop hunt going on in eur/usd right now if anyone cares to watch. You can see what happens when stops are tripped at ~1.3805. Given how short the market is, it should be a good one.
  • #569
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:01pm Mar 16, 2010 11:01pm
Quoting Scotty B
I'm curious too about DS's early trading days. ..
I specifically suggested this to be written in Sir Darkstar's upcoming book.
  • #570
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:02pm Mar 16, 2010 11:02pm
Quoting Darkstar
Theres a stop hunt going on in eur/usd right now if anyone cares to watch. You can see what happens when stops are tripped at ~1.3805. Given how short the market is, it should be a good one.
is this considered orderflow trading/orderflow knowledge? (a simple Yes or No will suffice)
are there other examples???

wait Sir. FXPro live feed says current highs are 1.3785ish (i thought price is already at/around 1.3805). are u looking at an orderbook or something?
Awesome, this is Darkstar speaking in REAL-TIME!!!!!
  • #571
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:02pm Mar 16, 2010 11:02pm
Quoting Darkstar
On currenex it was configurable. I usually ran it on 25 pips either direction.
book size? thanks
  • #572
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:10pm Mar 16, 2010 11:10pm
Quoting Deusomega
I often see people say that the futures dom is useless but CoT is definitely useful so I'm going to look into the dom as well. As always better to dig into things for yourself than rely on others. I fully agree with the underlined part. I think insights gained through one's own labor are much more valuable than one's that are merely revealed. If you are shown something it is definitely helpful but if you gain insight through your own hard work I thnk it is much more valuable. If someone shows you something then I at least have a tendency to think...
All you're going to see on the futures DOM is games being played, with orders "pulled" at last moment, etc.
It might be useful, but you'd have to concentrate so much, it will be difficult looking at anything else, my humble opinion of course.
Biggest joker
  • #573
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:10pm Mar 16, 2010 11:10pm
Quoting Darkstar
Theres a stop hunt going on in eur/usd right now if anyone cares to watch. You can see what happens when stops are tripped at ~1.3805. Given how short the market is, it should be a good one.
Hmm supposedly good sell interest there we will see! But makes sense good clustering area..
  • #574
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:11pm Mar 16, 2010 11:11pm
Quoting baron193
All you're going to see on the futures DOM is games being played, with orders "pulled" at last moment, etc.
It might be useful, but you'd have to concentrate so much, it will be difficult looking at anything else, my humble opinion of course.
DoM is far back on my list so yeah probably #100 on my list of things to look at .
  • #575
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:15pm Mar 16, 2010 11:15pm
Quoting Darkstar
Theres a stop hunt going on in eur/usd right now if anyone cares to watch. You can see what happens when stops are tripped at ~1.3805. Given how short the market is, it should be a good one.
i heard 1.3796
  • #576
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:15pm Mar 16, 2010 11:15pm
The most useful thing about the DOM is the speed by which you can enter, exit, and manage positions, when trading fast markets intraday.
Biggest joker
  • #577
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:18pm Mar 16, 2010 11:18pm
Quoting giraia_br
i heard 1.3796
I would believe above a round number before below it. Especially seeing the selling we had around this level on March 12.
  • #578
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:31pm Mar 16, 2010 11:31pm
Quoting giraia_br
i heard 1.3796
heard? from where?
so far, price lacks the strength to go up. cant breach 1.3785 for now.
Let's see.

(Real-time teaching tool. thanks a lot, Sir Darkstar)
  • #579
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:41pm Mar 16, 2010 11:41pm
Quoting Scotty B
Why do I get the feeling you're all off burning out your retinas?

DOM:

It doesn't mean much until and unless...
scotty


theres alot more that i havent mentioned. so far its still very difficult to watch and understand whats going on but lately its become a much easier task and somethin im more use to that before. we look at it as this deep dark secret but in fact the people placing those orders are just like us. all we need is common sense and a bit of screen time to know what theyr up to

i can now say it with more confidence that certain patterns im seeing are recurring.

i dont trade short term so i manage my trades accordingly but this has helped me get better entries for sure

its obviously alot more than just big orders. my focus is on how and where those orders move to. if someone is lookin to sell a big amount, ull see patterns. he will deff move his order around but when hes ready to sell ull see somethin else

also the reaction when a big order is hit. it becomes strong support and resistance. i watch what happens when an order is on the market. if it gets hit somethin common sensish will happen. remember supply and demand crap. if it doesnt get hit ull feel it

also out of nowhere ull see the bid sometimes happening with large numbers pretty much F'ing everyone else. price will hold and support is there. if it breaks and i dont mean break as in just drop under it u have to observe it and a tick chart on the side would help out alot


chances are i might be wrong on this. im no expert but so far it has been helpful and ive seen the patterns more than once so i have more confidence in this

in the end if darkstar could do it i fail to see why no one else couldnt. i mean unless im missing somehtin.
  • #580
  • Mar 16, 2010 11:42pm Mar 16, 2010 11:42pm
Thats a hell of a wall. The hunters are going to need more help to pull this off. Over the next hour or two I expect to see a common technical pattern emerge that will entice spec traders to get in on the move. Likely just a higher low and continuation, but they may get crafty if that doesn't work...

As a side note, look back to around 17:50 est. The large pinbar was the players engaged in this hunt clearing out their existing longs (accumulated in the previous up move). They were anticipating this battle and needed to free up resources...
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