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Stating The Obvious and The Quest For Wisdom

  • #481
  • Mar 16, 2010 6:05am Mar 16, 2010 6:05am
Quoting markmm
Why waste your time doing all the TA stuff when is doesn't work. Waste of time you don't need it.
It does work, just not nearly as much as we think when we start trading. Also, it's not an enough arsenal to trade succesfully in the long run. At least, in my opinion.
  • #482
  • Mar 16, 2010 6:09am Mar 16, 2010 6:09am
Quoting Sauron
I'm sick and tired of people who say that it is impossible to trade profitable using TA. And therefore I'm going to ask a question. Are you saying it because you weren't able to find a consistent strategy or because you saw some mathematical proof?
If there is some proof then please show it to us. If not then keep in mind that it takes only one trader to prove that you're completely wrong.
I don't think it's impossible, but I am sure that 99% of people using just TA lose all their money in the end. TA in itself doesn't mean anything. It's nothing else that some make believe knowledge that we all agree on, so we can hope to guess what price is going to do next time a certain situation occurs. As such, it's a valid tool and it works more than 50% of the time, but in the long run, if that's all you do you'll probably end up losing your money unless you have some outstanding discipline and money management rules.
  • #483
  • Mar 16, 2010 6:14am Mar 16, 2010 6:14am
Quoting Fx chartist
Why don't you "google" TA before bla bla bla about what you think TA is.....
You are a plonker.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #484
  • Mar 16, 2010 6:18am Mar 16, 2010 6:18am
Quoting charlyher
I believe everything is in the chart.
The chart is the footprint.

Fundamental news can be a factor.
But you cannot hide it from the chart.
It shows through. It is all factored into the chart.

Players especially big players cannot hide their footprint.
As small players we just got to know what to do.

AGAIN, all things show up on the chart.
Don't expect to win all the time.

The chart can and will lie to us some time
BUT it cannot lie to us all the time.
You are correct everything that happened in the past is on the chart. Can you use that to trade from? Yes but not using a MA crossover or Fib.

I think this is a waste of time arguing about, if you use TA alone and are profitable then good luck to you, we will have to agree to disagree.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #485
  • Mar 16, 2010 6:19am Mar 16, 2010 6:19am
Quoting markmm
You are a plonker.
That's a word you don't hear enough of anymore.
  • #486
  • Mar 16, 2010 6:21am Mar 16, 2010 6:21am
Quoting AstonDan
That's a word you don't hear enough of anymore.
Yeah no more Rodney or Delboy.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #487
  • Mar 16, 2010 6:57am Mar 16, 2010 6:57am
Quoting markmm
I still don't agree with what you think this style of trading is about, its based on understanding the market structure, participants and their motives and then finding a way to trade profitably from that.

Trading from TA alone i.e. ma crossovers etc is a waste of time. Things like price patterns are different if although that depends on your understanding I think. Are you arguing that using a Fib or MA will give you an edge?
Mark, you're exploring different avenues and that's a good thing, this type of analysis appeals to you and you're interested in it which is half the battle, but it's not the be all and end all. To dismiss an approach and state categorically that it doesn't work isn't the smartest thing to do, what you mean to say is it doesn't work for you. Quite evidently some traders have been successfully utilizing TA in their trading for many years but unfortunately TA is what most novices start out with and they rely on it for their trading success. When it fails to deliver they discard it as something which doesn't work without fully understanding why they failed.

Given time I think you'll come to realize that what people use to assist them in making their trading decisions, be it TA and/or fundamentals, isn't really that important, it's how you utilize those tools in a trading environment that separates the profitable from the unprofitable. A purely technical intraday trader can be equally as profitable as a positional fundamental trader, someone with a university degree in economics and market structure can lose his shirt while a simpleton with only a very limited understanding can clean up.

It's not what you use, it's how you use it.
  • #488
  • Mar 16, 2010 7:18am Mar 16, 2010 7:18am
Quoting AstonDan
That's a word you don't hear enough of anymore.
"This time next year we'll all be millnares!"

I reckon Dell Boy would have made a good trader, Rodders not so much
  • #489
  • Mar 16, 2010 7:24am Mar 16, 2010 7:24am
Quoting pipmutt
"This time next year we'll all be millnares!"

I reckon Dell Boy would have made a good trader, Rodders not so much
Well Del Boy would just buy and sell value when he saw it, Rodney would take too long to think about it, and by then, the opportunity would have passed.
  • #490
  • Mar 16, 2010 7:33am Mar 16, 2010 7:33am
This thread has turned in to a circus.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #491
  • Mar 16, 2010 7:48am Mar 16, 2010 7:48am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
This thread has turned in to a circus.


We're just in consolidation at the moment...
  • #492
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:00am Mar 16, 2010 8:00am
Quoting pipmutt
Mark, you're exploring different avenues and that's a good thing, this type of analysis appeals to you and you're interested in it which is half the battle, but it's not the be all and end all. To dismiss an approach and state categorically that it doesn't work isn't the smartest thing to do, what you mean to say is it doesn't work for you. Quite evidently some traders have been successfully utilizing TA in their trading for many years but unfortunately TA is what most novices start out with and they rely on it for their trading success....
The often quoted 95% traders lose, I would bet my house that most of them use pure TA. You may as well just toss a coin. I'm sure you can use TA to be profitable by using it to fade those traders that use it. But that's about it. You might understand this one day.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #493
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:01am Mar 16, 2010 8:01am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
This thread has turned in to a circus.
All threads do.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #494
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:03am Mar 16, 2010 8:03am
I know of three consistent solid strategies but I believe everybody knows them by now.

I want to add to my arsenal; tell me the obvious strategies out there that I may be missing.
  • #495
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:10am Mar 16, 2010 8:10am
Quoting markmm
The often quoted 95% traders lose, I would bet my house that most of them use pure TA.
Yep, more than likely, but you kinda missed the point...

"....TA is what most novices start out with and they rely on it for their trading success. When it fails to deliver they discard it as something which doesn't work without fully understanding why they failed......It's not what you use, it's how you use it."
  • #496
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:26am Mar 16, 2010 8:26am
Quoting pipmutt
Yep, more than likely, but you kinda missed the point...

"....TA is what most novices start out with and they rely on it for their trading success. When it fails to deliver they discard it as something which doesn't work without fully understanding why they failed......It's not what you use, it's how you use it."
Hey Pipmutt,

Lets try and stop this silliness in the next hour or so by finding out what the problem is exactly. If I've understood correctly, your issue is that this thread has got an "I know, but I ain't tellin'" theme. Is that right?

If so, remember that the people who DS was speaking to initially DO KNOW, at least a little, about the kinds of things to be taken in to account when trading 'order flow'. This is kind of a private conversation taking place in public that some, including yourself, don't know the background info on. Just as you wont share with us the ins and outs of how you trade, Darkstar and the participants who have put in time and research wont share the ins and outs of how they trade. It's really that simple.

I for one, don't feel as if he is dangling a carrot in front of my eyes.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #497
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:29am Mar 16, 2010 8:29am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
If I've understood correctly, your issue is that this thread has got an "I know, but I ain't tellin'" theme. Is that right?.
Hey Leon, no we got past that, no issues here really, everything's good
  • #498
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:32am Mar 16, 2010 8:32am
Quoting pipmutt
Hey Leon, no we got past that, no issues here really, everything's good
Couldn't be arsed reading all the way through, glad everything got ironed out somewhere.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #499
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:37am Mar 16, 2010 8:37am
Quoting pipmutt
Yep, more than likely, but you kinda missed the point...

"....TA is what most novices start out with and they rely on it for their trading success. When it fails to deliver they discard it as something which doesn't work without fully understanding why they failed......It's not what you use, it's how you use it."
I agree 100%, I know there are successful Technical traders, but I reckon they use it in conjunction with other stuff that has more predictive value.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #500
  • Mar 16, 2010 8:48am Mar 16, 2010 8:48am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
If so, remember that the people who DS was speaking to initially DO KNOW, at least a little, about the kinds of things to be taken in to account when trading 'order flow'. This is kind of a private conversation taking place in public that some, including yourself, don't know the background info on. Just as you wont share with us the ins and outs of how you trade, Darkstar and the participants who have put in time and research wont share the ins and outs of how they trade. It's really that simple.
Thats exactly what this thread was.

As far as the current conversation goes... if people can make money daytrading with TA then thats awesome. When I was a daytrader I made my fortune trading orderflow. No TA, no charts.

There ARE inefficiencies in the market and once you start seeing the metagame, you can capture them with impunity. The problem is; the inefficiencies are small and by telling an open forum how to capture them, they disapear. You can call that a carrot if you want.. stop your feet and say that I'm an asshole... but unfortunately it won't help.

I CAN"T give you what you want because what you want doesn't exist.
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