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Stating The Obvious and The Quest For Wisdom

  • #301
  • Mar 14, 2010 7:41am Mar 14, 2010 7:41am
Here is another quote from my forex club site:

"If first you don't succeed, don't try something new and compound your failure frustrations. Perservere because you have passion and you will succeed like Ben Franklin on his 100th light bulbs."

The real key in perseverance is PASSION. Without passion, the battle is lost.
  • #302
  • Mar 14, 2010 7:56am Mar 14, 2010 7:56am
Wow, there are so many points here which I don't agree with it's hard to know where to start!

I'm not sure screen time is what does it, like Scotty said (congrats on the baby by the way Scotty!!), charts don't tell the whole story, common sense must play a role ie if it's 5pm on Friday night, or the end of a quarter, or options expiry, or imminent data release, volatility, lack of liquidity, central bank rhetoric etc etc. Instead of market/chart experience I think an important by-product of screen time is the realization that trying to predict direction is not an exact science and consistent profitability and longevity in this business doesn't necessarily rely on being an ace analyst.

I wouldn't call forex trading an aggressive and competetive business, well not at this level anyway. No-one gives a second thought to what we're doing in the market and we're not aggressively competing with anyone, we're simply buying and selling with a marketmaker.

Zero sum, well that's a whole other debate, it might be among speculators but there are other participants in the market who exchange currencies for non-speculative purposes.

'Boring', now that's something we can agree on, although personally I find the markets fascinating even though trading itself is somewhat mundane. I also get some perverse pleasure from the irony of looking out of my office window across to the multi-billion dollar City and all it's technology and expertise and me sitting in my shorts and slippers at 6am on my $500 PC doing the exact same thing they're doing (albeit not on the same level)!

In depth knowledge of the market and what makes it tick, and order flow and the people behind it is without doubt an interesting topic but in my opinion it's by no means a prerequisite to consistent profitability or the tool to achieve it, if it was then I for one would not have survived!
  • #303
  • Mar 14, 2010 8:11am Mar 14, 2010 8:11am
There are many roads to Forex success.
Each person has their own personality and preference.

What works with one person may not work for another.
"Holy Grail" is not a perfect grail, but it does exist in the sense that
people make positive cash flow year after year.

Find what works for you and stick to it.
  • #304
  • Edited 8:52am Mar 14, 2010 8:42am | Edited 8:52am
It seems that you have misunderstood some of my points by taking a lot my comments literally without seeing the bigger picture. I am happy to explain a little further of what i meant.


Quoting pipmutt
Wow, there are so many points here which I don't agree with it's hard to know where to start!
Really ? I didn't find THAT many of them

Quoting pipmutt
I'm not sure screen time is what does it, like Scotty said (congrats on the baby by the way Scotty!!), charts don't tell the whole story, common sense must play a role ie if it's 5pm on Friday night, or the end of a quarter, or options expiry, or imminent data release, volatility, lack of liquidity, central bank rhetoric etc etc.
that's exactly where you are a bit off track and mainly due to the fact that you have a slight narrow understanding of what i meant by screen time. Let me explain by asking (rethorical) questions:

do you think the characteristics (that you have acknowledged!) of your "5pm friday trading" has not derived from the screen time ?
Do you think that the knowledge you have about "end of quarter", liquidity and lack of it has not come from screen time ?
Where does your "common sense" come from ?

IN NO WAY was i thinking of screen time as a plain technical pattern analysis bullshit (which is what you were basically referring to). Screen time is about starting to notice things in different situations. Have you been anticipating price in EVERY session ??? have you noticed something at the start of a new session, before and after it ?

If it's not screentime what is it ?

Where comes your knowledge in terms of MARKET VALUE ?

Don't forget that when you are gaining knowledge (or gaining misconceptions) right here in FF, that itself is screen time. With your new knowledge you are going to "test" it on the market, aren't you, by anticipating price in situations NEW to YOU.

Quoting pipmutt
Instead of market/chart experience I think an important by-product of screen time is the realization that trying to predict direction is not an exact science and consistent profitability and longevity in this business doesn't necessarily rely on being an ace analyst.
Of course NOT, it's a combination of things which i brought up in my previous post.

Quoting pipmutt
I wouldn't call forex trading an aggressive and competetive business, well not at this level anyway. No-one gives a second thought to what we're doing in the market and we're not aggressively competing with anyone, we're simply buying and selling with a marketmaker.
REALLY ? i thought that was the whole point of order flow to extract other traders motives and start noticing, for example, when price is being "irrationally" driven to one side of the market causing imbalances. I could be wrong though.

Quoting pipmutt
Zero sum, well that's a whole other debate, it might be among speculators but there are other participants in the market who exchange currencies for non-speculative purposes.
Are you one of them ? If so, then i don't see the point debating here with you in the first place.

Quoting pipmutt
'Boring', now that's something we can agree on, although personally I find the markets fascinating even though trading itself is somewhat mundane. I also get some perverse pleasure from the irony of looking out of my office window across to the multi-billion dollar City and all it's technology and expertise and me sitting in my shorts and slippers at 6am on my $500 PC doing the exact same thing they're doing (albeit not on the same level)!
Don't get me wrong, i personally find the markets VERY fascinating !
I am guilty of overly emphasizing things because i just want to make a point ...don't take everything literally.

Quoting pipmutt
In depth knowledge of the market and what makes it tick, and order flow and the people behind it is without doubt an interesting topic but in my opinion it's by no means a prerequisite to consistent profitability or the tool to achieve it, if it was then I for one would not have survived!
Don't know anyone who said it was. It's just the topic under discussion. And yes, an interesting one, as you pointed out.

Just giving my opinions here and TRYING to logically explain them, feel free to trash it

lumesh
  • #305
  • Mar 14, 2010 8:43am Mar 14, 2010 8:43am
Quoting charlyher
There are many roads to Forex success.
Each person has their own personality and preference.

What works with one person may not work for another.
"Holy Grail" is not a perfect grail, but it does exist in the sense that
people make positive cash flow year after year.

Find what works for you and stick to it.

hmm, is it just me, or there's something fishy about that guy ?
  • #306
  • Mar 14, 2010 8:50am Mar 14, 2010 8:50am
I throw my net in the forex market.
Whatever I catch, I earn......

What is so fishy about that???
  • #307
  • Mar 14, 2010 8:56am Mar 14, 2010 8:56am
Quoting charlyher
I throw my net in the forex market.
Whatever I catch, I earn......

What is so fishy about that???


ok, my bad then
  • #308
  • Edited 3:56pm Mar 14, 2010 9:36am | Edited 3:56pm
Quoting Scotty B
Many of you know me as a fib freak. I started my journey here at FF right around the time Skunny started his “Indicator Free Trading” thread. Being the naive moron that I was, I was quick to drink the Kool-Aid. I bought into the idea that there must be some fool-proof technical oriented way to trade. In retrospect, this is a very silly thing to pursue.
Scotty B
Hi Scotty,

I changed my initial post, as I read you posts again and see you are really studying in depth how the market works.

Chatzi
  • #309
  • Mar 14, 2010 9:36am Mar 14, 2010 9:36am
Quoting LasVahGoose
I don't know about luck, but your entry probably had a 10 pip draw down before going your way?
No such thing as luck in forex.
  • #310
  • Mar 14, 2010 10:30am Mar 14, 2010 10:30am
Quoting chatzi
Hi Scotty,

You are what is known as a system nomad, moving from one to the other, but never spending enough time to really learn how to trade. If you studied and understood what Skunny was teaching then you would be a great trader by now. Instead you are stuck in a loop of system hopping. Learning to trade requires 1000s of hours in front of the charts, your not going to get that by reading some books or threads.

Chatzi
Feck that BS.

Were you convinced by Skunnys claims that his method exploited the secret orchestrated price movements of the Illuminati?

That was the point that I left.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #311
  • Edited 10:52am Mar 14, 2010 10:36am | Edited 10:52am
Quoting lumesh
do you think the characteristics (that you have acknowledged!) of your "5pm friday trading" has not derived from the screen time ?

Do you think that the knowledge you have about "end of quarter", liquidity and lack of it has not come from screen time ?
Where does your "common sense" come from ?
Not screen time, no, very general market knowledge and common sense. The time I spent in front of screens would have been better spent understanding trading and the market a little more rather than watching charts and trying out directional indicators.

Quoting lumesh
technical pattern analysis bullshit
hehe, pattern analysis is bullshit is it, I see. How about Fibonacci?


Quoting lumesh
REALLY ? i thought that was the whole point of order flow to extract other traders motives and start noticing, for example, when price is being "irrationally" driven to one side of the market causing imbalances. I could be wrong though.
You're never going to know every traders motives for doing what they do, and only knowing a small percentage is as useful as knowing none. There aren't any irrational moves, only our lack of knowledge about the rationality behind them. Players aren't an open book, why do you think iceberg orders exist?


Quoting lumesh
Just giving my opinions here and TRYING to logically explain them, feel free to trash it
I'd never trash anyone's ideas or opinions unless they're exceptionally stupid, if it's working for them then who am I to argue. To be honest it makes a refreshing change to read a thread about something other than some convoluted lame ass indicator or trading strategy!
  • #312
  • Mar 14, 2010 10:39am Mar 14, 2010 10:39am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Feck that BS.

Were you convinced by Skunnys claims that his method exploited the secret orchestrated price movements of the Illuminati?

That was the point that I left.
  • #313
  • Mar 14, 2010 10:41am Mar 14, 2010 10:41am
Quoting charlyher
Here is another quote from my forex club site:

"If first you don't succeed, don't try something new and compound your failure frustrations. Perservere because you have passion and you will succeed like Ben Franklin on his 100th light bulbs."

The real key in perseverance is PASSION. Without passion, the battle is lost.


Ben Franklin?!??!?!?!? Ben Franklin!?!?!
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #314
  • Mar 14, 2010 10:49am Mar 14, 2010 10:49am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Feck that BS.

Were you convinced by Skunnys claims that his method exploited the secret orchestrated price movements of the Illuminati?

That was the point that I left.
Eh? I'm talking about using Fibs and SR to help you frame price, there are many traders making excellent profits using these simple tools.

I'm not sure what Skunny claimed or whether or not he scammed some of you, but the principles of S/R and Fibs are sound, all you need it experience and practice.

Many of the experienced traders here open Private Forums and don't post live trades, J16 being one of them, does that mean he is a scam? No way I learned a ton of stuff.

Some people are addicted to trading forums rather than trading, and blame others when they haven't taken the time to learn to trade.
  • #315
  • Mar 14, 2010 10:56am Mar 14, 2010 10:56am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Feck that BS.

Were you convinced by Skunnys claims that his method exploited the secret orchestrated price movements of the Illuminati?

That was the point that I left.
Are you sure it wasn't a joke he made? I agree Fibs or Gann lines are not going to make you a trader, they are just a tool for helping you make decisions and managing your trade.

If you were expecting the Holy Grail then you were always going to be dissapointed.

A lot of you also hang on Darkstars word because he talked about high percentage trading, and great returns. You want the results but aren't willing to do the work. I'm sure Darkstar like most successful traders spent A LOT of time in front of the charts.

My advice, pick a pair, watch it day in day out, get to know how it moves, at what time. To help use technical tools if you want, or use News info like Option Expiry Calendar.
  • #316
  • Mar 14, 2010 11:01am Mar 14, 2010 11:01am
Quoting chatzi
I'm sure Darkstar like most successful traders spent A LOT of time in front of the charts.
Ah but did he need to? If he had it all to do over again would he follow the same path? Would any of you? Darkstar?
  • #317
  • Mar 14, 2010 11:05am Mar 14, 2010 11:05am
Quoting pipmutt
Ah but did he need to? If he had it all to do over again would he follow the same path? Would any of you? Darkstar?
If you want to learn to trade, there is no other way. NONE!
  • #318
  • Mar 14, 2010 11:08am Mar 14, 2010 11:08am
Quoting chatzi
If you want to learn to trade, there is no other way. NONE!
Not strictly true but I don't want to hijack the thread.
  • #319
  • Mar 14, 2010 11:10am Mar 14, 2010 11:10am
Quoting Four Kids
pipmutt, you nailed it. Best post on the thread.
I would go so far as to say one of the best post anywhere on Forex Factory.

  • #320
  • Mar 14, 2010 11:14am Mar 14, 2010 11:14am
Quoting pipmutt
Not strictly true but I don't want to hijack the thread.
Its true, any successful trader will attest to that. Time, watching price on the tape or through a chart, live or using Vhands or Market Replay.
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