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Could 10:1 be the new leverage in US Forex?

  • #641
  • Feb 23, 2010 2:55pm Feb 23, 2010 2:55pm
Quoting Scarlett
How do we do it? It is a terrific idea...Does anybody know how to copy this thread and send it...(I want to see their heads pop off)
Will try tonite with Acrobat, will do it if it can follow all the links from the thread automatically from one to the next, but if it takes a lot of work...I am too busy...if I can do it, I will post the file
  • #642
  • Feb 23, 2010 3:00pm Feb 23, 2010 3:00pm
Quoting Scarlett
I got this response from one of the clerks who pick up the questions on those "chats" that are available on the web pages of the larger brokers.
He probably doesn't know much but take it for what it's worth:

[color=blue]"I do know that the coalition met with the CFTC this last week and we were advised that all the feedback the CFTC has received from individual traders and all the US brokers fight against the leverage change - was well taken by the CFTC. I think that with all the broker's lawyers and lobbyists fighting it - the proposal...
"I think that with all the brokers' lawyers"

I would not put too much weight into that, it sounds like a self-serving statement. Why would they put lawyers to work if they already submitted to the legal jurisdictional issue???
  • #643
  • Feb 23, 2010 3:12pm Feb 23, 2010 3:12pm
Quoting wwwin
Scarlett, that link takes me to a yahoo email address for a Gina?? Wow, she has a lot of admirers.
Rats!

I'll try again
Scarlett
  • #644
  • Feb 23, 2010 3:44pm Feb 23, 2010 3:44pm
OK, boys and girls, attached in PDF are the first 10 pages of the thread? Any volunteers for the rest.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf thread1-10.pdf   1.2 MB | 535 downloads
  • #645
  • Feb 23, 2010 5:42pm Feb 23, 2010 5:42pm
Quoting wwwin
"I think that with all the brokers' lawyers"

I would not put too much weight into that, it sounds like a self-serving statement. Why would they put lawyers to work if they already submitted to the legal jurisdictional issue???
What you see from the brokers publicly is a very different matter from what is likely happening privately. There will be an army of razor sharp very expensive lawyers pouring over the documents, busy drilling holes in anything and everything they can find. They may very well also be looking at the possibility of filing suit for damages, subject to the outcome.

Meanwhile, the lobbying of Washington will be reaching fever pitch and there will be no let-up in that until the decision is handed down. This is just how lobbying and politics works. What you see on the surface bears no resemblance at all to the behind-the-scenes work.
  • #646
  • Feb 24, 2010 1:14am Feb 24, 2010 1:14am
Quoting Jade Gate
What you see from the brokers publicly is a very different matter from what is likely happening privately. There will be an army of razor sharp very expensive lawyers pouring over the documents, busy drilling holes in anything and everything they can find.
Precisely. I wonder what kind of field day GAIN Capital's lawyers are having with this. What terrible timing for their IPO, first the total pullout from China and now this. I'm still waiting to see their updated Form S-1 filing, they may need to amend the 'ol Forward Looking Statement. I imagine they'll likely hold off until this issue is settled, which would be the prudent course of action.
  • #647
  • Feb 24, 2010 3:32am Feb 24, 2010 3:32am
Quoting wwwin
OK, boys and girls, attached in PDF are the first 10 pages of the thread? Any volunteers for the rest.
Dont know how to do that. Otherwise, I would be happy to complete...did you send it?
Scarlett
  • #648
  • Feb 24, 2010 7:40am Feb 24, 2010 7:40am
Quoting Scarlett
Dont know how to do that. Otherwise, I would be happy to complete...did you send it?
OK, don't worry if you don't know how to do it, I can do it later. I just want to see how many people are really interested in this. It appears that only 3 or 4 people are. Too much apathy going around. But they sure will complain later when they are shut down.

PS. No have not sent it yet.
  • #649
  • Feb 24, 2010 11:12am Feb 24, 2010 11:12am
Quoting wwwin
It appears that only 3 or 4 people are. Too much apathy going around.
....well !! I guess people are getting it and no longer fighting the trend. Thats quite smart IMHO .

Good luck to you WWWinnie pissing against the wind. By the way where is Smartie pants??

I heard from some very credible sources that the big boys decided to post complaints from the retail community as a act of mockery. Thats low
  • #650
  • Feb 24, 2010 12:16pm Feb 24, 2010 12:16pm
Quoting Platypus
....well !! I guess people are getting it and no longer fighting the trend. Thats quite smart IMHO .

Good luck to you WWWinnie pissing against the wind. By the way where is Smartie pants??

I heard from some very credible sources that the big boys decided to post complaints from the retail community as a act of mockery. Thats low
I don't need luck, my account is out of here, and I have made contingent arrangements to protect vs. trying to shut down US residents from opening foreign accounts...it is just a minor inconvenience that I would rather not have, but this is a matter of freedom, and a matter of principle...but no big deal trading wise...so bring on your prophecy Nostradamus...and about the retail being mocked...you are misinformed...by law they have to post all comments...they cannot pick and choose...so why don't you make more catastrophic predictions so that I can laugh..
  • #651
  • Edited 1:32pm Feb 24, 2010 1:24pm | Edited 1:32pm
Quoting wwwin
I don't need luck, my account is out of here, and I have made contingent arrangements to protect vs. trying to shut down US residents from opening foreign accounts...it is just a minor inconvenience that I would rather not have, but this is a matter of freedom, and a matter of principle...but no big deal trading wise...so bring on your prophecy Nostradamus...and about the retail being mocked...you are misinformed...by law they have to post all comments...they cannot pick and choose...so why don't you make more catastrophic predictions so that I...
I'm not that good in predictions but it looks very obvious to me that your sister will find a Greek BF and the guy will convince her to run away with your accounts money!
  • #652
  • Feb 24, 2010 1:29pm Feb 24, 2010 1:29pm
Quoting wwwin
...and about the retail being mocked...you are misinformed...by law they have to post all comments...they cannot pick and choose.....
!!
  • #653
  • Feb 24, 2010 2:01pm Feb 24, 2010 2:01pm
I think this is a good thing...ive been trading profitably the past 5 years and I only use 10x leverage the most anyways. When I first started the extra leverage really set me back in terms of money management because of the urge to use it!
  • #654
  • Feb 24, 2010 4:00pm Feb 24, 2010 4:00pm
Quoting Stacey
I think this is a good thing...ive been trading profitably the past 5 years and I only use 10x leverage the most anyways. When I first started the extra leverage really set me back in terms of money management because of the urge to use it!
Please don't blame the broker, government or the market for offering you a choice and you making a mistake, take responsibility for you actions. You had the option of picking 10:1 and no one forced you to pick what ever it is that you did.
  • #655
  • Feb 24, 2010 5:48pm Feb 24, 2010 5:48pm
Quoting Stacey
I think this is a good thing...ive been trading profitably the past 5 years and I only use 10x leverage the most anyways. When I first started the extra leverage really set me back in terms of money management because of the urge to use it!
That is weird, 10 to 1 is not in effect and you have been profitable for 5 years...it seems to me that you lost before b/c of lack of self control, don't you have more than 10 to 1 but don't use it b/c now you have more self control? It has nothing to do with the leverage, it has to do with you. Had you been limited to 10 to 1 at the beginning you would have found a way to lose anyway.
  • #656
  • Feb 25, 2010 3:04pm Feb 25, 2010 3:04pm
Putting the question of sovereign evil CDS traders to rest
"The corruption goes to the very top and the SEC idiots are now investigating CDS traders?There will be no end to the insanity and lunacy, until there is a revolution in this country"
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/put...eculators-rest
  • #657
  • Feb 25, 2010 6:53pm Feb 25, 2010 6:53pm
Quoting wwwin
That is weird, 10 to 1 is not in effect and you have been profitable for 5 years...it seems to me that you lost before b/c of lack of self control, don't you have more than 10 to 1 but don't use it b/c now you have more self control? It has nothing to do with the leverage, it has to do with you. Had you been limited to 10 to 1 at the beginning you would have found a way to lose anyway.
you are correct that i lacked control early on, its human nature when theres usable leverage sitting right there as a beginner all you can think of is win , make money make 1000% everyday.....i'm not blaming the broker at all, i'm simply stating my opinion saying its fine by me they are changing it to 10:1... Sorry my original came off as it was the brokers fault.
  • #658
  • Feb 25, 2010 7:17pm Feb 25, 2010 7:17pm
Found this today.

http://forexmagnates.com/5500-commen...ules-thats-it/

5500 responses to the CFTC. The author says that's not very many. The important statement comes in the "Comments" section from Josh. Looks like he works for the CFTC and is involved in compiling the information. He says this is the most comments the CFTC has ever had about anything.

I'm glad to see some encouraging news, and I'm more hopeful now that if we continue to send our comments there is a good possibility this will not go into effect.

I have read a lot of comments here since January 13th, and learned a lot about this proposal, Gary Gensler, his predecessor at CFTC--Brooksley Born and the challenges she made to the triumvirate of Greenspan, Rubin & Sommers regarding regulation of the banks.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...tm_source=grid

It has been a very interesting education.

And my education began with the comments posted here. I believe I can now write a 2nd response to the CFTC that will be a much better response than the one I sent earlier. I have become more optimistic in the past couple of weeks that this proposed rule to limit leverage to 10:1 will not go into effect, in part because of the response the CFTC has already received, but more importantly because of the much bigger picture of the politics of the CFTC as a regulatory body and their place in Washington, DC.

Now is the time to stand taller and stand closer. I think we are going to win this. Send your comments to your Congressmen as well as the CFTC.
  • #659
  • Feb 25, 2010 7:28pm Feb 25, 2010 7:28pm
Quoting Stacey
I think this is a good thing...ive been trading profitably the past 5 years and I only use 10x leverage the most anyways. When I first started the extra leverage really set me back in terms of money management because of the urge to use it!
I agree with you. 10:1 should be adequate, unless a trader is scalping with very small SLs, or needs to have multiple positions open simultaneously.

The following formula applies for any position size (on any xxxUSD pair):

Leverage required = %risk x 10,000 / SL pips

As an example, if you risk the rule-of-thumb 2% of your account per trade, and employ a stoploss that's 50 pips away from entry, the leverage requirement is 0.02 x 10,000 / 50 = 4:1.

For a scalper using a 10 pip SL and 2% exposure, the leverage requirement is 0.02 x 10,000 / 10 = 20:1.

The risk, as opposed to the leverage, is the critical value, in all cases.
  • #660
  • Feb 25, 2010 8:38pm Feb 25, 2010 8:38pm
Quoting hanover
I agree with you. 10:1 should be adequate, unless a trader is scalping with very small SLs, or needs to have multiple positions open simultaneously.

The following formula applies for any position size (on any xxxUSD pair):

Leverage required = %risk x 10,000 / SL pips

As an example, if you risk the rule-of-thumb 2% of your account per trade, and employ a stoploss that's 50 pips away from entry, the leverage requirement is 0.02 x 10,000 / 50 = 4:1.

For a scalper using a 10 pip SL and 2%...
"should be adequate, unless a trader is scalping with very small SLs, or needs to have multiple positions open simultaneously"

The problem is that you view the world only thru your own blinders...just b/c is fine for you it does not mean that is fine...how about people that like to scalp or like to have multiple positions open...why should they be forced to trade your way? would you like it if you were forced to trade their way? or to trade with their arbitrary formula? ...and how about when they lower it to 2 to 1, and limit you to only 3 day trades per week, unless you keep at least $25,000 in the account at all times...is that fine too?
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