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James16 Group vs Van Tharp

  • #41
  • Jan 29, 2010 12:10pm Jan 29, 2010 12:10pm
Quoting Dopey

So, until someone comes along here and says they know for a "fact" that VT doesn't trade, you're all talking out of your asses, as usual.
There's a couple of videos from Van Tharp seminars where he quite clearly states that he does not trade because he prefers to allow selected members of his super trader program manage his assetts. In one of the seminars he's asked the question directly from a member of the audience, and he's perfectly open about the answer he gives.

I have no problem with at all, I'd do the same in his position.

Its clear when you talk to Van thats his practical knowledge with respect to designing and implimenting a trading methodology is extremely limited, I'd say it was practically non existant. His knowlege of trading psychology isnt actually that great either (but its better than most of his competitors).

Having said that, IMHO where he excels is his focus on the actual processes required to develop as a trader. He might be light on actual practical detail which is where J16 may or may not be of assistance if your predisposed to trading that particular style, but Van Tharps basic development framework is solid, and as good a starting point as anyone could hope to get.

I'd stick my neck out and state that its practically impossible to succeed as a trader without a basic knowledge of the stuff Van teaches, and as he teaches it better than most of his competors its worth spending a few hundred bucks with the guy.

I feel sort of sorry for Van Tharp, the core of what he offers is exactly what traders need, but not necessarily what most of them want. Inevitably the core material gets diluted with the useless sort of fluff that traders tend to want (but dont actually need !) He's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Although I love his stuff, I'd be a little uncomfortable about an inexperienced trader spending $50,000 on the super trader program, not because I dont think its worth it, it probably is, but I'm not sure you can deliver the concepts it covers over a 2 year year period unless the student already has a reasonable handle on things. Being realistic, for anyone who trading full time, even if the program results in a 10% improvement in performance its worth its weight in gold.
  • #42
  • Jan 31, 2010 12:10pm Jan 31, 2010 12:10pm
It seems the assertion made on the linguistic abilities of various peoples asses may have been somewhat incorrect.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #43
  • Jan 31, 2010 12:33pm Jan 31, 2010 12:33pm
I wouldn't want to be mentored by anyone who would be my mentor.

I'd have to be able to offer the mentor something in return, which wasn't a fee, that would make the whole venture mutually benefitial... and make sense. But Alas, I have no such thing to offer.

No decent mentor would charge me circa $100 pm for their help.

EDIT: OK, maybe my post wasn't too relevant to the thread. When buying books (or if I was to subscribe to a service) about FX/Markets/Trading what I am(/would be) looking for is information about the reality of the markets, not a method to exploit the markets. I don't expect methods to be shared in books, at least not profitable ones.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #44
  • Jan 31, 2010 12:57pm Jan 31, 2010 12:57pm
Quoting opie999
Hi, Mr. Seeker.

My wife of 15 years left me for a woman. We had three kids together. Kyle is our oldest, 6, and slow. Klem we had on purpose. He's 5 but can't seem to get the hang of walking yet. Kletus is the baby of the family. She's real cute but has a skin condition that makes her look like the mailman. I got full custody of all three.

My job at the BubbleMonkey Carwash barely made ends meet and, since the reservoir dried up because of global warming, BubbleMonkey closed shop.

Blue, my dog, came down with some kind of weird canine venereal...
OMG, that was brilliant. Lol.

Living the adventure in my head.
  • #45
  • Jan 31, 2010 1:32pm Jan 31, 2010 1:32pm
Quoting Razzle
There's a couple of videos from Van Tharp seminars where he quite clearly states that he does not trade because he prefers to allow selected members of his super trader program manage his assetts. In one of the seminars he's asked the question directly from a member of the audience, and he's perfectly open about the answer he gives.
I haven't seen them, but it wouldn't surprise me. I remember him telling us that he used the Graham Value Investment strategy (it's Buffet's as well), but it makes sense from his perspective to get some really good traders managing his money for him. Unlike most of us, he actually trained them to a degree so he'd trust them.

Quote
Its clear when you talk to Van thats his practical knowledge with respect to designing and implimenting a trading methodology is extremely limited, I'd say it was practically non existant. His knowlege of trading psychology isnt actually that great either (but its better than most of his competitors).
I agree. When I did the stock seminar with him, the co-presenter did the actual trading systems while Van did the psychology and MM parts. In his "Building a Trading System...", which I have, it was done with Chuck LeBeau, a well-known system designer.

Quote
Having said that, IMHO where he excels is his focus on the actual processes required to develop as a trader. He might be light on actual practical detail which is where J16 may or may not be of assistance if your predisposed to trading that particular style, but Van Tharps basic development framework is solid, and as good a starting point as anyone could hope to get.
Absolutely. I did his Peak Performance Course the year before I did the seminar. It opened my eyes to the necessity of getting my act together before I traded. At the time I did the course my wife and I were on very rocky ground after 4 years of marriage. I proposed we seek counseling and we did it for about 6 months. We've now been together for 12 years and have two kids. If I never got anything else from his course, I more than got my money's worth because it single-handedly convinced me to do something about my marriage.

I get a bit rankled by the simplistic remarks of some people who want to dismiss VT's value to traders because they think he can't and/or doesn't trade. It's that juvenile belief that those who can't teach. Yet if you look at most of the top coaches in NFL now you'll see that a lot of them have never played professional ball. Yet they sure do a great job coaching.

Quote
I'd stick my neck out and state that its practically impossible to succeed as a trader without a basic knowledge of the stuff Van teaches, and as he teaches it better than most of his competors its worth spending a few hundred bucks with the guy.
I'd qualify that statement by saying that his Peak Performance and MM stuff is absolutely worth every penny one would pay. (Btw, I got the PP course off Ebay 8 years ago for half of what he was charging through his website. I suspect he's selling it himself on Ebay, or was. It was still about $700 then, a bit pricey, even for someone like me who had money to spend).

However, I don't think the money I paid for the seminar was well spent. It cost me $2,400, on top of having to go to the US and pay for the hotel. The psych stuff I already had through the PP course and it was really a cursory overview compared to the course. The MM stuff was new, and I bought his blue book on MM there at the seminar for about $90, which also gave greater detail than the seminar. I switched over to fx shortly after the seminar so I never tried to use any of the methods presented in the seminar. I couldn't even tell you what they were without going into the notes which I still have. I suspect though that it wasn't anything earth shattering. It was cool meeting him and Dennnis, but it wasn't worth $2,400 imo.

Quote
I feel sort of sorry for Van Tharp, the core of what he offers is exactly what traders need, but not necessarily what most of them want. Inevitably the core material gets diluted with the useless sort of fluff that traders tend to want (but dont actually need !) He's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Lol, don't cry too much, he's made a bundle with his business. His pysch work is essential for most, but I can say from my own experience it's not the only thing one needs. I guess it could be for some if they possess certain traits and skills.

For myself, I've done other things as well such as meditation and working with a Life Coach. Maybe I'm a bit thicker than others but the life changing stuff for me has been a tough road. I suspect my age might have something to do with it. For those who are in their 20's it might be easier to change as they haven't become as attached to their faults and foibles as us older folks have.

Quote
Although I love his stuff, I'd be a little uncomfortable about an inexperienced trader spending $50,000 on the super trader program, not because I dont think its worth it, it probably is, but I'm not sure you can deliver the concepts it covers over a 2 year period unless the student already has a reasonable handle on things. Being realistic, for anyone who trading full time, even if the program results in a 10% improvement in performance its worth its weight in gold.
Damn, I had no idea he charged that much for that program. I guess you've got to be a Damn Good Trader before you can become a Super Trader, lol.

Thanks for the intelligent reply. I greatly appreciate it. I retract my statement that you were talking out of your ass, you obviously aren't.

Cheers.
  • #46
  • Mar 13, 2010 6:58am Mar 13, 2010 6:58am
Can anyone tell me how the relation between text articles and videos is on J16?

Ty
  • #47
  • Nov 10, 2013 8:01pm Nov 10, 2013 8:01pm
James16 is well worth the money, honestly it makes trading become like reading a book. Jim isn't involved with the site much at this point, but I hear he is returning after a long break. But, Mike is really an amazing trader as well as Seeking Light. His concepts are more complicated than Mike and Jim's but wow.
There is soo much information on the site. It really is gold and I am glad I found it.
  • #48
  • Nov 10, 2013 8:05pm Nov 10, 2013 8:05pm
Quoting james16
i was just made aware of this and frankly i thought to myself it would be inapropriate for me to say anything but i couldnt resist. there has not been one day in the last three years since i stumbled accross forex factory that i have not been completly flabbergasted and humbled by the positive comments and success of those that follow my silly simple stuff. i have no doubts that there are many many people that have taken my simple approaches and used them with a far bigger brain than i have to accomplish far more than i ever have or ever will. this...
The James16 site is filled with many golden nuggets, and although I haven't been in communication with Jim himself since joining. He is taking a break from the site for a bit. Mike is pretty much running the site now, and I can vouch that he is a really great trader and teacher. Disciplined, experienced and filled with so much knowledge. I thank James16 for creating the site and can't thank Mike enough for what he has taught so far. I have spent probably close to 100 hours on the members site. I am far away from putting a dent in the available videos.
  • #49
  • Last Post: Oct 17, 2017 8:03pm Oct 17, 2017 8:03pm
Quoting SeanyTsunami
{quote} The James16 site is filled with many golden nuggets, and although I haven't been in communication with Jim himself since joining. He is taking a break from the site for a bit. Mike is pretty much running the site now, and I can vouch that he is a really great trader and teacher. Disciplined, experienced and filled with so much knowledge. I thank James16 for creating the site and can't thank Mike enough for what he has taught so far. I have spent probably close to 100 hours on the members site. I am far away from putting a dent in the available...
Hi Seany, are you still a member at James 16 group? I paid $99 membership a few days back and until now have not received access. Emailed them but no replies.
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