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NEW MT5 Seriously Stuffed For Traders Platform

  • #361
  • Dec 29, 2009 4:04am Dec 29, 2009 4:04am
So if I'm correctly there will be an option to choose either the mt4 platform or the mt5?

It isn't the case that in the nearby future we are forced to chose the mt5 platform?

Also can the EA's that have been used on mt4 be used on mt5 without being adjusted?
  • #362
  • Dec 29, 2009 4:08am Dec 29, 2009 4:08am
Quoting aquaart
1) They disabled multi-position handling, which for some trading styles makes trading much easier. No matter what way we look at it, this is a decrease in functionality as a single position trader could still do single position trading in a multi-position platform, but a multi-position trader cannot easily do multi-position trading in a single position platform.

This MUST be made optional for the non-NFA traders.
That's the issue of the interface not the trade execution. By the time the final version of MT5 is released there may be both third-party and original interface solutions for that matter. Actually, I believe that the major part of the cases of the misunderstanding of how the MT5 position system works comes from interface differences.

Quoting aquaart
2) After saying that they would make MQ5 backwards compatiable with MQ4 (to keep traders I would suspect), they have either lied or misled the forex community and gone back on their word.
Point 2) is heavily related to the loss of functionality in point 1). I suspect that they have deliberately not made a MQ4 to MQ5 translation tools because it would highlight the loss of functionality (trade operation in particular) very easily for all too see.

(However some translation scripts are already being developed and it would be good for all communities...
Everyone would love a backward compatibility or at least some official conversion tool. But I guess that such tool would be very expensive to develop and that wasn't a first priority for MetaQuotes. Anyway, until MT5 is used in the real accounts, there is not much necessity in such tool. Perhaps, by the time MT5 is out of beta the conversion tool will also be released.
  • #363
  • Dec 29, 2009 9:34am Dec 29, 2009 9:34am
Quoting Chunnel
So if I'm correctly there will be an option to choose either the mt4 platform or the mt5?
This only depends on your broker. You can chose a completely different platform if you want or a completely different broker. FXCM's most recent in house platform is pretty good, and I hear that Oanda's is also good.
Dealbook360 by GFT is also a good platform.

Quoting Chunnel
It isn't the case that in the nearby future we are forced to chose the mt5 platform?
MT5 order operation is only difficult for those that have used MT4 with multi-trades open on the one pair (especially MT4 users that used counter trades in place of stop losses). It could actually help you learn to trend trade off S/R properly. I am deliberately doing that now within MT4. Pain in the butt, but achievable.

Quoting Chunnel
Also can the EA's that have been used on mt4 be used on mt5 without being adjusted?
No they can't. This is because of a change in the programming language, and the new trade order requirements for MT5.

Programmers are busy trying to get translation tools ready, whilst learning MQL5 at the same time.

But don't be concerned, if you like MT4 there will be no rush as most brokers will hang onto that platform as long as they can so that don't lose traders to other brokers (unless they are an NFA regulated broker).
  • #364
  • Dec 29, 2009 11:54am Dec 29, 2009 11:54am
Quoting enivid
You still haven't provided any example trade/strategy that would be impossible to implement in MT5 with the same profit/loss result.
The actual problem is not economic equivalence (there is little difference), but it is a huge deal in programming EA's.

Often you have multiple trades open which may have multiple purposes and strategies. An EA can put them on with different magic numbers. And often the EA will use the entry points and parameters on them to control their exits.

With MT4 and having multiple positions open, the MT4 server will maintain all that information, and the EA can query this information and process it appropriately.

"in principle" you can write a client-side EA to do all of this, but it is far from ideal. In fact it is dangerous---because it isn't infrequent that orders do not actually go through as intended because of network problems, slippage, requotes, platform goes down, etc. So an EA cannot assume that because it "asked" for a given transaction that the transaction actually took place as it was programmed to do.

Hence reliable EA's have to query the server and see what positions are actually open or set---as seen by the dealer---and compare to how they should be according to the algorithm, and adjust properly. You should be able to quit an EA, quit MT4 client, restart it up, and everything continues to work.

Imagine if you just wanted to write a subroutine to keep on attempting to place an order, and handling errors or requotes. You want to make sure you have a successful order placed, exactly once. Not zero times, and especially NOT multiple times.

It is a MAJOR deal if all you get is net open positions. It is simply too dangerous to write strategies dealing with real money (as real accounts vs demo have more execution issues).

Ideally---MT5 ought to have position netting according to NFA for economic computations---but maintain individual open/closed positions for programmed strategies.

If MT5 provides a way to get the MT4 equivalent information in EA's then it's OK, but if not----MT5 is dead to algorithmic traders.
  • #365
  • Dec 29, 2009 9:54pm Dec 29, 2009 9:54pm
Quoting mbkennel
Ideally---MT5 ought to have position netting according to NFA for economic computations---but maintain individual open/closed positions for programmed strategies.

If MT5 provides a way to get the MT4 equivalent information in EA's then it's OK, but if not----MT5 is dead to algorithmic traders.
It should be possible to encapsulate this all in one well designed library that could maintain an internal list of individual trades and has an interface towards the EA that is similar to (or even better than) the current MT4 trading API.

The whole thing could be made a simple mql5 include file or library and I'm sure sooner or later something exactly like this will be available for free if there is really a need for it.

This library could even be used to create a GUI (I have read somewhere in MT5 you can create your own GUIs) that allows manual nedging and displays their individual (virtual) trades and partial profits for those traders that insist on being able to do it.
  • #366
  • Dec 29, 2009 10:15pm Dec 29, 2009 10:15pm
Quoting 7bit
The whole thing could be made a simple mql5 include file or library and I'm sure sooner or later something exactly like this will be available for free if there is really a need for it.

Hi 7bit and enivid,
Thought you might be interested in post 28 and 29 I did on this link cause I understand that both of you programme.


These aids are FAR from complete but they might help with you MQ5 programming learning / needs or MQ4 to MQ5 translation.
  • #367
  • Dec 31, 2009 3:59am Dec 31, 2009 3:59am
Quoting aquaart
This only depends on your broker. You can chose a completely different platform if you want or a completely different broker. FXCM's most recent in house platform is pretty good, and I hear that Oanda's is also good.
Dealbook360 by GFT is also a good platform.



MT5 order operation is only difficult for those that have used MT4 with multi-trades open on the one pair (especially MT4 users that used counter trades in place of stop losses). It could actually help you learn to trend trade off S/R properly. I am deliberately doing that...
Ok, thank you for the clarification!
Then I'll better start looking into MQL5.
  • #368
  • Jan 4, 2010 3:32am Jan 4, 2010 3:32am
Yeah it appears a lot of EA's will be out the window and a lot of strategies will be also.

When the NFA changed the hedging guidles earlier last year I was wondering how long it would take for it to reflect throughout the market. Metatrader appears to also be adjusting this with MT5.

I am sure it will create a lot of people trying to hold on to MT4 but over time they will have to convert.

The hedging functionality has never been a issue with my strategy but I can see how it can effect others. Especially those who over trade.

This could help the market long term though. SO we will see how it goes.
  • #369
  • Jan 4, 2010 8:45am Jan 4, 2010 8:45am
Quoting mwingo1135
Yeah it appears a lot of EA's will be out the window and a lot of strategies will be also.

When the NFA changed the hedging guidles earlier last year I was wondering how long it would take for it to reflect throughout the market. Metatrader appears to also be adjusting this with MT5.

I am sure it will create a lot of people trying to hold on to MT4 but over time they will have to convert.

The hedging functionality has never been a issue with my strategy but I can see how it can effect others. Especially those who over trade.

This could help...
I think time will tell, but most people would like to keep MT4 because they know this platform verry well.

And MT5 will have allot of new features, some of them even effect the trading strategies..
  • #370
  • Jan 9, 2010 5:25am Jan 9, 2010 5:25am
check out http://paulsfxrandomwalk.blogspot.co...ager-with.html
  • #371
  • Jan 9, 2010 6:22am Jan 9, 2010 6:22am
Quoting phampton
check out http://paulsfxrandomwalk.blogspot.co...ager-with.html
Nice job! I bet it required the incredible efforts. I am going to test it next trading week and see if there are any bugs.
  • #372
  • Last Post: Jan 11, 2010 3:45am Jan 11, 2010 3:45am
Quoting phampton
check out http://paulsfxrandomwalk.blogspot.co...ager-with.html
Verry well done!
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