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Discussing trading with non-traders

  • #41
  • Jan 8, 2010 5:35am Jan 8, 2010 5:35am
Quoting FinnTrader
Hey guys

Am I the only one, who has found it almost impossible to discuss on trading with people that don't trade? It's kind of annoying, since trading is quite big part of my life at the moment, and I don't have any trader friends IRL. If I just mention to someone that I trade currencies, I get a lot of comments that how stupid it is: "A zero sum game, impossible to beat, no one can predict the markets etc..." Many of the commentetors have been highly educated economics people, who think they know everything. Although I have tried to explain...
just ignore them
good luck
  • #42
  • Jan 8, 2010 5:59am Jan 8, 2010 5:59am
I typically find that it is a waste of time to try to talk to anyone without a previously expressed interest in trading about trading.
  • #43
  • Jan 8, 2010 6:27am Jan 8, 2010 6:27am
I had one guy tell me once that trading is a gimmick and that he rather work hard for a guaranteed paycheck at a supermarket than throw his money away in trading. Needless to say, i just changed the subject.
"The market doesn't beat them, they beat themselves" - J. Livermore
  • #44
  • Mar 2, 2010 3:21pm Mar 2, 2010 3:21pm
I do have a couple of examples.

- My ex-girlfriend said Forex is stupid without even having taken a brief look on it or seen a chart. I'm glad she's my ex, she would have been a big obstacle in reaching my goals.

- I once saw my neighbour at the postal office and she asked me what I am doing these days. I sad currency trading. Her response was "And how do you make sure you avoid doing business with criminals?"

I just said it's all organized by some banks and they have done their due diligence on the clients. That's all I had to say, I didn't want to go as far as interbanks and liquidy providers. If I would, she might have reported me to the cops lol.

- Once on a birthday party I started talking with this friendly guy and then it came out: I trade in currencies. He said "Cool, a friend of mine invests in stocks, let me ask him what kind of book he can suggest you to read"

I was like ok, go ahead. After all, I didn't want to be rude. So he sends a text message to his friend and in a couple of minutes he gets the reply in which I was suggested to read some book by Warren Buffett's value picking. I don't think so.

- Lately I have been mentoring a friend of mine in becoming a profitable trader. So we went to this coffeeshop with my laptop to study some charts. Another guy (pharmacology student) decided to join.

So while we were talking about pinbars, divergence and s/r this other guy says "You shouldn't invest in currencies, invest in this company because they have a good drug against X disease and so on."

- I watched a program where they were talking about trading and they interviewed a professor. I think he's a professor in economics. He said "currency trading is the same as coin tossing which will not lead to success in the end."
  • #45
  • Edited 2:30am Mar 18, 2010 2:19am | Edited 2:30am
Ive had the bombardment of stupid comments aswell, usually just saying that its gambling, that you could loose all your money overnight or just looking incredibly bored if i explain how it works when they make it clear they haven't even heared of forex before.

You can't care too much about other peoples rash judgements and lack of knowledge on the subject i guess especially if they don't know what a stop loss is lol. I think we have our own advantages and disadvantages as retail traders which is great it gives people with the insight and interest in the subject to make a lot of money, and im happy in a way that it bores people and scares them away with irrational fear because its less competition for people like us.

And I would have told the person in the last comment with the coin toss, if thats the case then a TP twice the size of the SL would give positive expectancy with consistent low risk money management.
The greatest force on earth is compound interest.
  • #46
  • Mar 18, 2010 9:41am Mar 18, 2010 9:41am
Quoting FinnTrader
Am I the only one, who has found it almost impossible to discuss on trading with people that don't trade?
It's not impossible, it just has to be oversimplified.

Quote
Many of the commentetors have been highly educated economics people, who think they know everything.
Ask them how long they have studied trading. Asking an economist about trading is no more helpful than betting on a sporting commentator's tips.

Quote
Although I have tried to explain the activity of the forex market and shown them examples that it's not a random walk market, they just don't get it.
Tell them that the market is made of people, and people do not think or actrandomly, and that biases can be exploited. If they still can't understand, don't bother anymore and just feel satisfied with your superior intelligence.

Quote
Any similar experiences?

A couple of similar experiences. They are 'institutionalised', i.e. work for investment banks and think that's as good as it gets. They're not traders though and I suspect most bank traders are pretty mediocre, so they haven't had much exposure to truly good traders.

Quote
Hopefully one day I'll have a Ferrari bought with trading incomes. I guess it would be a bit easier then to get some respect for the explanations.
Don't count on it. Surprisingly, some of them will have just enough intelligence to grasp the concept of variance, and will attribute your success to chance.

If I could bother, I would just tell these people that they have no idea what they're talking about, and they probably don't have the intelligence for that to change. Instead, it's just easier telling them that you disagree and letting them have their little victory, because frankly, we shouldn't care.

You could always introduce yourself as a currency speculator. Everyone knows how evil speculators are, and that in this world the bad guys win. Bonus if you run into one of these "Robin Hood Tax" types.
  • #47
  • Mar 18, 2010 10:27am Mar 18, 2010 10:27am
I used to get this problem and it was hard to explain in the beginning. To be perfectly honest your close friends will eventually stop asking questions, it's just the people that you've never met which are the annoying ones, the "know-it-alls".

Nowadays I'm only getting asked "are you still trading", rather than "so what do you do".

The new people are a pain because some of my close friends are expecting a free lunch, one guy I told him not to put any money into an account, learn for at least 6 months and told him "read these websites and these books before you risk anything". Next week he's opened an account and lost 90% of his money - no big deal it was only £50, but it's the fact he ignored everything I said.

If you do decide to mentor someone, only answer their questions and help them with their way of trading, everyone is different so copying someone else's trading may not be the best way.

When someone asks what you do, just say professional gambler to raise a few eyebrows. Or just talk them through the market mechanism then leave it at that.
  • #48
  • Mar 18, 2010 1:33pm Mar 18, 2010 1:33pm
I get that too: "Are you still trading?" or I get "So you still doin' that huh?" ...I have learned it's better to play things pretty close to the vest and understate how I'm doing. Not that I'm doing that well.
  • #49
  • Mar 18, 2010 2:20pm Mar 18, 2010 2:20pm
No joke. A few months ago I mentioned forex to a friend of a friend. He thought I was talking about porn. 4XXXX.
  • #50
  • Mar 18, 2010 2:47pm Mar 18, 2010 2:47pm
Actually, no one really wants to hear about it anyway.

I was with some friends, sitting around telling funny / interesting stories. This went on for a good while.

Somehow (against my better judgment) I accidentally started telling a story that involved trading and within a minute they said, "OK, that's enough stories, we're gonna turn the stereo up now."
  • #51
  • Mar 18, 2010 2:47pm Mar 18, 2010 2:47pm
most traders are a bunch of obnoxious assholes. who cares about what you do for a living? i mean seriously..it's just a job.
  • #52
  • Mar 18, 2010 6:19pm Mar 18, 2010 6:19pm
Ohh man, that type of conversation has happened to me as well. I'm thinking that it is better to be vague and just forget saying anything to do with trading. Just say that you have a side job in IT.

Quoting silverheat
well, it all depends on what you want to talk about. sure you'll not get very far with ema-settings, this is awkward enough, let alone talking to a stranger:

how do you trade? i use the 9/18 ema cross
i don't really like crosses
no?
hm hm, i prefer bollinger, you know bollinger? hm?
ah ... yeah, i heard from it, is it working well?
well, you know ...
how much do you make?
you?
ah ... well, i'm just starting out ... demoing you know?
yeah, right, nice talking to you
  • #53
  • Mar 18, 2010 6:25pm Mar 18, 2010 6:25pm
It can't be any worse than talking to other traders.
  • #54
  • Mar 18, 2010 7:45pm Mar 18, 2010 7:45pm
Quoting AstonDan
It can't be any worse than talking to other traders.
Depends on the style! Most traders stick in their clique, talking about the unfamiliar is either uninteresting or not explainable but mostly underestimated .

One trader I knew was talking about Elliot wave counts, deltas, and other things (you'll know who I'm on about probably). He's really into it, I mean extraordinarily enthusiastic about it, he tried teaching many but we strayed off because we all had different styles.

Talked to him 2 months ago and his background is unreal, and the amount he has and earns is phenomenal.

Prejudice is the worst thing when making connections.
  • #55
  • Mar 18, 2010 8:36pm Mar 18, 2010 8:36pm
I find saying that it is a hobby diffuses any problems. I can mention something in passing this way. If pressed I say that it might add to my retirement but that is all the detail I go to when ppl ask how much I make.

The unfortunate reality of this world is that people do judge you by your proffession.
  • #56
  • Mar 19, 2010 4:25am Mar 19, 2010 4:25am
Quoting Waterfield
Depends on the style!
I would sugget it depends on whether they're a*#eholes but whatever man, whatever .
  • #57
  • Mar 19, 2010 4:36am Mar 19, 2010 4:36am
Anyone asks I tell them I'm a market analyst. Tell them you're a forex trader and the next question is can you get them any cheap pesetas for their next holiday!
  • #58
  • Last Post: Mar 19, 2010 4:47am Mar 19, 2010 4:47am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
I do agree that it would be great to socialise in-person with people of similar interest and thinking though.
Not in this business! I can't think of anything worse than socializing with a bunch of other forex traders.....well I suppose accountants could be marginally worse but only just!
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