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Discussing trading with non-traders

  • #1
  • First Post: Jan 7, 2010 8:17am Jan 7, 2010 8:17am
Hey guys

Am I the only one, who has found it almost impossible to discuss on trading with people that don't trade? It's kind of annoying, since trading is quite big part of my life at the moment, and I don't have any trader friends IRL. If I just mention to someone that I trade currencies, I get a lot of comments that how stupid it is: "A zero sum game, impossible to beat, no one can predict the markets etc..." Many of the commentetors have been highly educated economics people, who think they know everything. Although I have tried to explain the activity of the forex market and shown them examples that it's not a random walk market, they just don't get it.

Any similar experiences?

Hopefully one day I'll have a Ferrari bought with trading incomes. I guess it would be a bit easier then to get some respect for the explanations.


Finn
  • #2
  • Jan 7, 2010 8:46am Jan 7, 2010 8:46am
Finn,

Your choices are:

  1. Get used to these comments, everyone has an opinion and they are more than ready to pull you down due to their own fears and ignorance of this business.
  2. Don't tell them you trade. Tell them you got a side job as a garbage collector, or a plumber. Then when they find what you do uninteresting, move the conversation on to something else.

Actually #2 may be your best option because when you're with your friends and family you should just forget about the markets and trading for awhile. This business is time consuming enough without having to deal with it and listen to ignorant comments from those who don't know what they are saying. (no matter the level of "ecconomics" education)

  • #3
  • Jan 7, 2010 9:06am Jan 7, 2010 9:06am
generally i prefer #2, especially with people i don't know

you don't need to justify what you're doing, seems to me you want to get acknowledgment because of lack of confidence, just move on in the game, find people with whom you can talk about trading ... other traders ... forexfactory is a good point to start though virtual ... or friends, if they are good friends even if they know nothing about it or have prejudices, usually they will at least listen to you and support you.
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #4
  • Jan 7, 2010 9:06am Jan 7, 2010 9:06am
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=201111
  • #5
  • Jan 7, 2010 9:22am Jan 7, 2010 9:22am
Trading is usually written off as gambling by the general public.
In my case, I usually get the knowing smirk like they're being patient with a willful child when I try to argue it's not. It's like trying to convince a fundamentalist that the universe isn't 5000 years old (i.e. pointless).

I guess they're not called "sheeple" for nothing.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  • #6
  • Jan 7, 2010 9:50am Jan 7, 2010 9:50am
Chances are that you are not successful. For you, trading for a living may never be anything more than a dream, so their scepticism is warranted. If you were profitable and making a very good living, then I’m sure their responses would be a whole lot different.

Unless you have been involved in or studying the markets for quite a while, I'm sure your views on trading and making money in the markets ARE outlandish and quite worthy of the condescending remarks you receive.

Calling it how it may be,
Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #7
  • Jan 7, 2010 9:50am Jan 7, 2010 9:50am
It's already hard enough to discuss trading with somebody that thinks that he knows about markets.
So i won't even try with people that don't know anything about trading or investment.
I did it once, i turned up to have all kind of unknow (boring) people at a party asking me where they should put their money. But of course, none of them wanted to waiting 5 years to gain 3% with their classical bank account (they all wanted the market-is-a-big-casino-and-i-will-be-rich-in-a-few-days-scheme).

So I dumbly told them that the best thing they could invest in are a cheese fondue set and an electric raclette grill because (after using it 2 - 3 times) it's less expensive than eating at restaurants and at least they will have a good time with their friends/family.

Really, it's better not to tell people that you are (trying?) to gain money with forex/stock/comodities/....
  • #8
  • Jan 7, 2010 9:58am Jan 7, 2010 9:58am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Chances are that you are not successful. For you, trading for a living may never be anything more than a dream, so their scepticism is warranted. If you were profitable and making a very good living, then I’m sure their responses would be a whole lot different.
You're kind of right, but you're assuming I trade for a living. In reality I trade options in my IRA because it's safer and more reliable than doing the "buy and hold" with mutual funds.

So I do trade, just not for a living.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  • #9
  • Jan 7, 2010 10:08am Jan 7, 2010 10:08am
i have a question, what do you want to talk about? where eurusd is heading? how trading is the best job on earth? about technical stuff?

there is one thing you can do to obtain a conversation about trading by trickery, talk about the economy or the economic policy of the government, about inflation, taxes, etc. there is a good chance the conversation digresses into long term investment, down to trading experience, and you can find a trader in one you didn't expect to because he doesn't want to brag about it
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #10
  • Jan 7, 2010 10:23am Jan 7, 2010 10:23am
Quoting FinnTrader
Hey guys

Am I the only one, who has found it almost impossible to discuss on trading with people that don't trade? It's kind of annoying, since trading is quite big part of my life at the moment, and I don't have any trader friends IRL. If I just mention to someone that I trade currencies, I get a lot of comments that how stupid it is: "A zero sum game, impossible to beat, no one can predict the markets etc..." Many of the commentetors have been highly educated economics people, who think they know everything. Although I have tried to explain...
Finn,
So much for a lighthearted thread eh? Now you've been psychoanalyzed.

GSPAJON is correct. You'll get a lot of number 1 in the forum.
  • #11
  • Jan 7, 2010 11:06am Jan 7, 2010 11:06am
Option #2 is what I've been doing. The only people that truly know what I do and vaguely have a clue is my wife, mother, and brother. Anyone else seeking, get the "side job at Walmart" speech.

Though I'm sure some people are getting suspicious as I just bought a new luxury car with my "side job with Walmart" extra income.
  • #12
  • Jan 7, 2010 11:11am Jan 7, 2010 11:11am
its s a good subject and can be a challenge at times.
however i think most of the poeple these days are all talking about how the GFC did them over in one way or another......

i tend to jump on them when they start saying all sorts of unfounded knowledge, how the banks shagged everyone and blah blah blah, gosh and a million other things in the news reports tell them. what i understand about the situation even if it only forex related to me they dont know thier a$$ from their elbow most of the time anyways, i end up telling them these times are the times to be looking at the situation positively and how can one get involved just to see how they fair.

try to start them up on stocks or even banks and let them blow thier steam and then tell them that your average return is ummmm say %20 (20 pips @1:100 leverage) of your positons held and yeah if the set up looks good you can trade the position everyday some days are up some days are down, but this is all part of the challenge, getting your win ratio in your favour.....

and if you still get that dirty look as if you are a gambler, ask them how much they get from thier savings account daily....

HUH?????

i had this conversation just recently witha guy who is in a world of pain at the moment coz he bought a stock with out even looking at a chart, got the worst price you could imagine. so ihad to show him a chart on my phone just to show him how bad the decsion was, and explained how markets move in brief, and he was dumb founded, anyways he is now waiting for a retracement so he can average down his positon.

i think most people have something to say about theh GFC situation so it can be your chance to put you foot inthe door before they close it on you....


cheers!
if i used every commercial EA i would be a brazilianare by next week!!!!
  • #13
  • Jan 7, 2010 11:30am Jan 7, 2010 11:30am
Quoting calderone
Finn,
So much for a lighthearted thread eh? Now you've been psychoanalyzed.

GSPAJON is correct. You'll get a lot of number 1 in the forum.
Hehe, yep, everything is now revealed.

#2 is impossible for me, since I'm a student and I trade also at school via my mini laptop, and I don't always go in the toilet to set / manage my trades. So questions are asked, and I can't resist starting an argument at this topic. Maybe I should.


Finn
  • #14
  • Jan 7, 2010 12:39pm Jan 7, 2010 12:39pm
I usually just tell people that I make my money online. Most just assume that I have a web site and I don't tell them anything to the contrary. Those who ask I do tell them what I do. I usually get the look of disbelief but I don't care. I am not here to justify my income to them. Success is the greatest revenge.
  • #15
  • Jan 7, 2010 2:07pm Jan 7, 2010 2:07pm
Whats wrong with calling yourself a self-employed currency trader? If they want to know more, then you tell them. I do agree that it would be great to socialise in-person with people of similar interest and thinking though.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #16
  • Jan 7, 2010 2:30pm Jan 7, 2010 2:30pm
Quoting FinnTrader
Am I the only one, who has found it almost impossible to discuss on trading with people that don't trade?
It can be hard to talk to those that do, too.

I was in the sauna at my health club one day - this was about a year ago, when I first started learning about forex. There was a guy in there and he was reading a poker magazine. I started talking to him about poker, because I used to play. Somehow he came out and said he was a daytrader, trading currencies, and that he gambled with his large profits. Then I said, hey cool, I just started demo trading....and he clammed up & left. I saw him again some time later & tried to ask him about trading & he blew me off. Now he gives me the stink-eye when I see him. He drives a new Hummer that appears to be made of platinum. I bet he's a scalper.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #17
  • Jan 7, 2010 2:32pm Jan 7, 2010 2:32pm
Quoting The Fool
It can be hard to talk to those that do, too.

I was in the sauna at my health club one day - this was about a year ago, when I first started learning about forex. There was a guy in there and he was reading a poker magazine. I started talking to him about poker, because I used to play. Somehow he came out and said he was a daytrader, trading currencies, and that he gambled with his large profits. Then I said, hey cool, I just started demo trading....and he clammed up & left. I saw him again some time later & tried to ask him about trading & he...
He just didn't want to deal with the 9000th person saying, "Ooh! Ooh! Show me how to trade too!"
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  • #18
  • Jan 7, 2010 3:00pm Jan 7, 2010 3:00pm
Quoting FinnTrader
Am I the only one, who has found it almost impossible to discuss on trading with people that don't trade?
Ha! It's nearly impossible to discuss it with those who do trade.

I've all but quit talking about it at all. I think that's a good thing - plus, you don't jinx yourself.



Quoting FinnTrader
Hopefully one day I'll have a Ferrari bought with trading incomes. I guess it would be a bit easier then to get some respect for the explanations.
They won't care...they'll just want to borrow it.
  • #19
  • Jan 7, 2010 3:06pm Jan 7, 2010 3:06pm
Quoting stevegee58
He just didn't want to deal with the 9000th person saying, "Ooh! Ooh! Show me how to trade too!"
Maybe. I figure since he saw me naked he was just intimidated. Kinda figures anyway with the Hummer....
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #20
  • Jan 7, 2010 3:11pm Jan 7, 2010 3:11pm
Quoting FXSurfer
Ha! It's nearly impossible to discuss it with those who do trade.

I've all but quit talking about it at all. I think that's a good thing - plus, you don't jinx yourself.

well, it all depends on what you want to talk about. sure you'll not get very far with ema-settings, this is awkward enough, let alone talking to a stranger:

how do you trade? i use the 9/18 ema cross
i don't really like crosses
no?
hm hm, i prefer bollinger, you know bollinger? hm?
ah ... yeah, i heard from it, is it working well?
well, you know ...
how much do you make?
you?
ah ... well, i'm just starting out ... demoing you know?
yeah, right, nice talking to you
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
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