at 0.5% risk on 50k after 200 losing trades you still have 18,440.04 in the account.It takes about 920 losing trades to drop down to the point of being below 1 micro lot traded.
at 2% risk per trade it would take 228 trades to drop below the point of 1 micro lot.
Not trying to nit pick but most people miss that calculation. This happens because the lot size decreases with the decrease in account balance.
Poll: Is successful trading more dependent on skill than luck?
- #122
- Jan 2, 2010 11:03am Jan 2, 2010 11:03am
- | Membership Revoked | Joined Feb 2009 | 2,903 Posts
at 0.5% risk on 50k after 200 losing trades you still have 18,440.04 in the account.
at 2% risk per trade it would take 228 trades to drop below the point of 1 micro lot.
Not trying to nit pick but most people miss that calculation. This happens because the lot size decreases with the decrease in account balance.
your quote: most people miss the calculation.
that be including yourself brother.. its simple math.. 50k / $250 = 200
you must have missed the whole point of my last two posts.. but if you like to get technicall on this.. than lets see..
what sl do u use in your calculation?..
in my post i give a frame work with a 25 stop loss (SL)
25pips SL average loss at beting 1 lot = $10 per pips = -$250 per trade.. divide that to 50k you will get 200.. i am sorry, am i missing something.. unless your talking about droping down the lot size accourding to each loss.. which it would be like shooting yourself in the foot and i don't highly recomend that.. sure after losing 50 some trades in a row, then maybe you need to reconsider things.. but if you got a sound game plan, therefor with that sample you can trade at ease, which is the whole point of my post.. statistics and calculations are for analysts and genius mathematicians like Bill Williams who died not makeing crap an poor.. oh the heck with all that, lets just focus on being a trader with a simple risk calculation in the backburner and make money.. lots of it.
you wanna know what my avg loss/win are on a trade? 10 pips tops and win could be infinite!! but avg of around 50.. does this mean i trade like a hard ass with a conceret 10pips sl and 50tp... hell no, far from that.. how about no sl/tp at all.. I trade manage the shit out of it, but at EASE.
and i can't remember the last time that i lost 10 trades in a row much as to 200.. but i still use the same ratio.. you wanna know why? bcz it makes me trade in comfort, so i let shit to fully develop before making a premature decision.
incase you like to see what i do, u can join systemII feb2865 thread and watch me in live action..
best of luck.
- #123
- Jan 2, 2010 11:32am Jan 2, 2010 11:32am
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Illegitimi non carborundum | 3,526 Posts
Illegitimi non carborundum - Noli pati a scelestis opprimi.
- #125
- Jan 2, 2010 11:49am Jan 2, 2010 11:49am
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Illegitimi non carborundum | 3,526 Posts
Illegitimi non carborundum - Noli pati a scelestis opprimi.
- #126
- Jan 2, 2010 11:55am Jan 2, 2010 11:55am
- Joined Nov 2007 | Status: Trying manual mode again | 2,210 Posts
- #128
- Jan 2, 2010 12:11pm Jan 2, 2010 12:11pm
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Illegitimi non carborundum | 3,526 Posts
Illegitimi non carborundum - Noli pati a scelestis opprimi.
Mathematics is an exact science for the most part 2+2=4.
Science is a precise science. When people are involved in research an element of human error can enter in, so it is limited to an extent for being "exact"
In my opinion with the Forex. All the indicators etc. Are mathematicaly exact. How we apply it to a chart is precision. How we execute the trade from its opening to close is skill. All together we get experience.
You are making me think. I like that.
Rufus
- #130
- Jan 2, 2010 8:41pm Jan 2, 2010 8:41pm
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Borderline yahoo & oh-no! | 6,607 Posts
SC..
I did not say all..
we are talking avg guy with a avg household.. wife with a kid or two with a decent house and two cars perhaps. He’ll need minimum of 5-7K just to survive.. not to mention u got uncle sam up your ass too.. lol.. but I agree with you about living pereferance of everyone.. I was talking on avgs....
I already gave a clue (sort of) in my initial reply but u still missed my point Sir.
I hope u are not innocent/ignorant, apathetic/indifferent &/or oblivious like many people around ME & around YOU...
but the World is NOT composed of only US/America.& "average" in your country is not the same 'average' in most other countries. & your lifestyle/cost of living is not the same with people in other countries.
as a little example, with that $5-7k u've mentioned, a family of 4 (mom, dad, 2 kids) can live for approximately 12-20 MONTHS here in the Philippines (& probably in some other parts of Asia). & like i said, it is possible to trade with less than 50k, even with less 10k (but again, i'd like to emphasize that it depends on where u are, what u have & what u do).
btw, not all 'average' guys have 2 cars &/or a decent house. not even in the US, i surmise (specially nowadays
).But I am not superised that most people don’t agree with my undercapitolized statement...
Please let me reiterate,
World is NOT = US only
average in US is NOT = average in other countries
50k capital is not 'World standard' or even 'World minimum'
....
Look.. If your looking to make a decent money that worths your time, than your trading account must fit to minimum of 50k!!! otherwise your simply undercapitalized.....
- #131
- Jan 2, 2010 9:16pm Jan 2, 2010 9:16pm
- | Joined Aug 2009 | Status: Trader | 2,585 Posts
Annoying Precision
- #132
- Jan 3, 2010 3:09am Jan 3, 2010 3:09am
- Joined Jul 2007 | Status: Trader | 1,685 Posts
Trading is 80% Skill. Putting on a winning trade requires absolutely no
skill but managing your Fear and Expectations does and thats where the
majority of amateur traders fail. A friend of mine puts out great trade calls
but doesn't act on some of them when he had small losing streak and hesitates. Those are generally the ones which would yield great profits putting him in positive territory.
Thinking about trades but not taking them only to see them unwind as you thought they would sounds familiar?
BTC Return This Year:
na
- #134
- Jan 3, 2010 4:49am Jan 3, 2010 4:49am
- | Membership Revoked | Joined Feb 2009 | 2,903 Posts
yes, u did not say 'all'..... explicitly.
I already gave a clue (sort of) in my initial reply but u still missed my point Sir.
I hope u are not innocent/ignorant, apathetic/indifferent &/or oblivious like many people around ME & around YOU...
but the World is NOT composed of only US/America.& "average" in your country is not the same 'average' in most other countries. & your lifestyle/cost of living is not the same with people in other countries.
as a little example, with that...
My point is to trade at ease/comfort.. its simple my friend..
now, average means as a whole.. the whole universe.. you want me to go door to door, country to country, person to person!!! think about it!!!
what do u think.. they got no uncle Sam in eroupean and asian countries etc..? or the cost of living is not as much or more than U.S, in U.K and France, germany or canada? but yes, probably less in India, china Thailand, Tukey, pakistan, Urkrain?.. or everyones life style, goals, drive etc.. different too.. so it washes it off and as a whole we can put it as an a Average.. and yes to live a avrage life in a average country witha average means u will need about 5K..
i don't see you got a point rather than nitt picking on basics..
another thing... are we just looking at this to just get by as a monthly survival? if thats the case, than we better off to stick to regular daily job and be challange/stress free.. why deal with risk!!!..
this is a market of cycles, and your winning method may not work the next day, month or a year.. trading rules and conditions may not be as good as it is atm the next month or year.. (i hope u concure that we ain't in control of any of this stuff).. we are in a constant changing enviroment.. the daily Market trading and the outside stuff.. so your better off to take full advantage of whats working for you at the time being and make your banks to achieve financial freedom.. perhaps trade the rest of your life for fun and help the poor with your extra winings if you choose too or whatever.. the point is to be liquid enough to never ever need to press the entery button if you choose not too and live rich.. if this is not our goal in trading, than why even bother..
you see, when i mentioned 50k.. my thinking is elite.. a lot goes behind it..
it takes money to make money to achieve financial riches.. sure u got the 100:1 leverage, but be smart and use it to your advantage while its still there!!!.. I had asumed that experience trades like yourself with some odds post and multiple vouchers would read between the lines a little better.. I mean no offence my friend..
now, i do understand not everyone got 50k or even 10K... and that is fine.. u can start with $300-$1000 as long as you risk accordingly and keep your expectations in check and work your way up.. and thats admirable.. but at some point if your looking to make it big (most traders goal from what i have known) you will need to bet atleast 1 lot and capital of around 50K, period.
I am out.. and no desire to discuss this any further.
Good luck.
- #135
- Jan 3, 2010 7:33am Jan 3, 2010 7:33am
- Joined Jul 2007 | Status: Trader | 1,685 Posts
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- #138
- Jan 3, 2010 7:41pm Jan 3, 2010 7:41pm
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Borderline yahoo & oh-no! | 6,607 Posts
- #139
- Jan 3, 2010 9:52pm Jan 3, 2010 9:52pm
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Borderline yahoo & oh-no! | 6,607 Posts
My point is to trade at ease/comfort.......
i don't see you got a point rather than...
the main point is: It's relative.
another point is that we are speaking from different sides of the globe (hence our viewpoints are different);
another point is that we are speaking from different sides of a coin: u seem to trade $50k up, i -along with many others- trade with less than $50k.
we can trade with ease/comfort, just like u, because it is all relative.
now, average means as a whole.. the whole universe.. you want me to go door to door, country to country, person to person!!!
what do u think.. they got no uncle Sam in eroupean and asian countries etc..?
...to live a avrage life in a average country with a average means u will need about 5K..
probably it's unbelievable to u, but i said "as a little example, with that $5-7k u've mentioned, a family of 4 (mom, dad, 2 kids) can live for approximately 12-20 MONTHS here in the Philippines (& probably in some other parts of Asia)." probably u'd still wont believe even if i cut that down to 5 - 10 months. better come to the Philippines & experience how friendly&warm people are & how cheap it is here.
another thing... are we just looking at this to just get by as a monthly survival? if thats the case, than we better off to stick to regular daily job and be challenge/stress free.. why deal with risk!!!..
wait a second, i though u live in the US???... have u not heard of recession there ... in simple words job loss (actually jobs lost)
[i have an FF trader-friend in Florida, a relative working in the west coast, a friend working in NY, & in several other US states... they tell me stories--- all first-hand experiences]
u have another very weak argument here. how can u say there is no risk, challenge &/or stress when one is employed? tell that to your fellow countrymen/women who are now laid off, &/or working less hours (as opposed to overtimes). this is scenario is happening around the world at the moment.
i believe people used to think having a job is secure. USED TO. let's see if many have been 'awakened' these days.
...now, i do understand not everyone got 50k or even 10K... and that is fine.. u can start with $300-$1000 as long as you risk accordingly and keep your expectations in check and work your way up.. and thats admirable.. but at some point if your looking to make it big (most traders goal from what i have known) you will need to bet at least 1 lot and capital of around 50K, period.
.......
traders can trade for monthly survival, for comfortable living, or for affluent living. it's all relative.
traders (not all) can start small & make it big. everything is possible. [again, 'big' is a relative word]
probably u can try it out, at least we'll get to share with you Our experience. by then, i'd like to hear your 'new opinion'.
u see it's difficult to comment (about the bottom: forest/trees) when u are on top (of the mountain), started off half-way & have not experienced the bottom. correct me if im wrong but this seems to be your case.
I had asumed that experience trades like yourself...would read between the lines a little better...
master linguist Dopey can spank me here & now, i believe i can read your mind through your words much better than u think. everything u say....it is very evident to me what your point & thinking are. & i believe i have responded accordingly.
all along u were talking of your experience ($50k trading; even your poker experience) but giving an opinion about <$50k trading.
again it's fact (we trade <$50k) vs opinion (u trade >$50k)
I speak in behalf of those trading & will trade with <$50k. it is possible, it is doable, but again it's trader-relative. im sure many (from around the world) read this thread & i dont want to dash their hopes & kill their dreams simply because u said '$50k is minimum'.
less than $1k up to $50k is ok & doable (again, it's RELATIVE), but must have/add patience, focus , determination (among other traits), good Psychology & good Money Management.
and no desire to discuss this any further
am just 'playing RobinHood' for the small people like myself.
