VantagePoint discussion thread | Page 3 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Daily Scalping EA - Discussion Thread 349 replies

genisis data vantagepoint 1 reply

Forward Testing Discussion Thread 241 replies

VantagePoint Sample System 0 replies

VantagePoint Graphics thread 27 replies

Attachments: VantagePoint discussion thread
Exit Attachments

VantagePoint discussion thread

  • #41
  • Edited 4:59pm Nov 8, 2005 4:48pm | Edited 4:59pm
Now wouldn't you feel a tad miffed if you had went ahead and purchased VP in the past month.

In Oct I was on the receiving end of a barrage of emails from a certain VP rep saying that I could save big $$'s on the below.

"We hare having some very generous specials until Friday, October 14, 2005
<o></o>

6 markets of your choice – One Time Investment for LIFE of only $3500<o></o>

10 markets of your choice – One Time Investment for LIFE of only $3900<o></o>

etc etc"



This morning I receive another email from different rep. It says, in part:

"All we need is your shipping address and credit card info to get started. Don't forget that this Friday, November 11th is the last day you can get 6 markets for $1495 or 20 for $3495."

So if I'd gone ahead with their "limited" offer special on Oct 4 I'd be $2000 out of pocket on the 6 market option. And if I'd paid normal price I'd have been $3000 out of pocket....and we won't even go near the the 10 mkts vs 20 mkt pricing.....seems to be a lot padding in those retail prices.....
My suggestion is, if you ever decide to buy their product, play hardball...you might even knock another $500 or so off the "specials"



<o></o>

  • #42
  • Nov 8, 2005 7:48pm Nov 8, 2005 7:48pm
[quote]
Quoting Beachie41
Now wouldn't you feel a tad miffed if you had went ahead and purchased VP in the past month.

In Oct I was on the receiving end of a barrage of emails from a certain VP rep saying that I could save big $'s on the below.

"We hare having some very generous specials until Friday, October 14, 2005


<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o></o>



6 markets of your choice – One Time Investment for LIFE of only $3500<o></o>








10 markets of your choice – One Time Investment for LIFE of only $3900<o></o>







etc etc"















This morning I receive another email from different rep. It says, in part:


"All we need is your shipping address and credit card info to get started. Don't forget that this Friday, November 11th is the last day you can get 6 markets for $1495 or 20 for $3495."

So if I'd gone ahead with their "limited" offer special on Oct 4 I'd be $2000 out of pocket on the 6 market option. And if I'd paid normal price I'd have been $3000 out of pocket....and we won't even go near the the 10 mkts vs 20 mkt pricing.....seems to be a lot padding in those retail prices.....
My suggestion is, if you ever decide to buy their product, play hardball...you might even knock another $500 or so off the "specials"

[/QUOTE]
While I completely agree that it is good to drive the best bargain possible that means I also like a company that I can negotiate with. I like companies that offer specials. Also my experience with VP has been that they are not nasty if you happen to have bought at one time at a certain price and suddenly they drop it a whole bunch... that they won't offer you something really great to make up for what you missed.

Also anyone reading your post beachie could be misled by not noticing that the offer that was higher priced is for LIFE. That means you pay no upgrade fees when new versions come out whereas the other offer is for the current shipping version of the software. If an upgrade comes out you are going to pay something for the upgrade. VP is extremely reasonable on their upgrade pricing but for some people who've been using VP for a long time and have paid for several upgrades over the years the higher price "lifetime" bundle may be worth the extra dough.


Thanks for your comments.


FT
  • #43
  • Nov 8, 2005 8:08pm Nov 8, 2005 8:08pm
[quote=fijitrader]
Quote
Also anyone reading your post beachie could be misled by not noticing that the offer that was higher priced is for LIFE. That means you pay no upgrade fees when new versions come out whereas the other offer is for the current shipping version of the software. If an upgrade comes out you are going to pay something for the upgrade. VP is extremely reasonable on their upgrade pricing but for some people who've been using VP for a long time and have paid for several upgrades over the years the higher price "lifetime" bundle may be worth the extra dough.
Thanks for your comments.
FT

True FT and I have no idea of their upgrade path, the frequency of or the cost per upgrade.

But value for $ still has to be with a non-life version at those discounts.
A few thousand $'s saved means your trading account will be that much better off. Apply those savings to any losses you incur while developing a suitable system using the VP software.

Once that hurdle is past you, then by their own testimonial's, it should only take a "few" trades to pay for any re-occurring upgrade. And that's if you decide the upgrade is warranted. That's my take on it....a $ in the hand so to speak
  • #44
  • Nov 8, 2005 9:17pm Nov 8, 2005 9:17pm
[quote=Beachie41]
Quoting fijitrader

Quote
But value for $ still has to be with a non-life version at those discounts.
A few thousand
s saved means your trading account will be that much better off. Apply those savings to any losses you incur while developing a suitable system using the VP software.
Especially for the new trader. You don't yet know if you're going to use it the rest of your life.

Quote
Once that hurdle is past you, then by their own testimonial's, it should only take a "few" trades to pay for any re-occurring upgrade. And that's if you decide the upgrade is warranted. That's my take on it....a $ in the hand so to speak [/QUOTE
A few hundred dollars compounded over a few years is worth a lot of money. I'm inclined to lean more towards the logic of your idea of value. However a trader who has been upgrading VP for 10 years may think differently.

FT
  • #45
  • Nov 9, 2005 5:20am Nov 9, 2005 5:20am
I agree as well with the price negotiation. I was able to get 13 markets for the price of 3, although it seems by your note I might have received 20 for the same price.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <o></o>

Although, you do have the option regardless of how many you get to switch/swap to different markets at no extra cost.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <o></o>

Just received my software and signed on with CSI as the data provider. Software was installed, and now I have to download the data once I get confirmation from CSI.


Mike
  • #46
  • Nov 11, 2005 9:39pm Nov 11, 2005 9:39pm
Mike,

I realize you have just gotten the software, keep us posted as how it is going.

I had gotten an email newsletter that talked about VantagePoint, so I went to their website and checked it out and there was the review on the Forex Factory. So I did a search and there was Fiji's review.

It has sparked my interest, so I would be interested in anyones feedback.

Louis Mendelsohn has been around a long time, I remember articles about his Neural Networks, back when I was trading futures in the early 90's. So he just didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

Appreciate anyones input,
Al
  • #47
  • Nov 15, 2005 8:40pm Nov 15, 2005 8:40pm
Thanks for the in-depth review FT. I've always wondered about this software. You made a great case for enhancing trading opportunities with it. One issue to consider is that the updates are at least in part needed to account for changing market characteristics (as distinct from updates for software interface, or adding features, etc). Right? I mean, markets change, go through cycles. And in this case, it's the relationship between markets going through such changes that's relevant. For example the way the relationship between the stock market and bonds has shifted over the last 20 years. In other words, older intermarket algorthymns/models may not work so well. I don't know if that's true; seems logical to me though.

CSI had a long-standing rep for clean reliable data. Haven't dealt with them for quite some time. They were good at their job when I did.

Thru
  • #48
  • Nov 20, 2005 1:13am Nov 20, 2005 1:13am
Hi FT

I've looked at the reviews on the website, as well as yours, and it seems to me that VP is best used as a setup. The entry is perhaps best made after confirmation with the user's method or system. Now, I appreciate that the PF Course is going to be a means to develop and/or hone trading skills, but does VP have sufficient (or any) indicators and tools, apart from the five neural networks and the concomitant daily reports in four sections, and a historical report.

If not, I guess a charting program like VT Trader (free) or Xtick would be advisable for implementing the signals for entry and exit.

Can you help with this? Any other points concerning practical use would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Trinity
  • #49
  • Nov 27, 2005 9:13am Nov 27, 2005 9:13am
Hi Fiji,

I hope you don't mind me me posting my quetion here. If it needs to have it's own thread I apologize and please move it accordingly.

I am new here to the forums and have really enjoyed what I have read so far in the threads.

My question to you is, what other neural software have you reviewed?
I see that there are software companys out there(on the web) selling their programs and indicators.

So you know where I am coming from, I traded a live account and my own system but never enjoyed the positive results, even when looking back at the chart they should have been good trades. So to eliminate emotion, I took my system, tweaked it and automated it at the same time. For awhile I have toyed with the idea of adding a neural piece to the sytem.

Wanting to get a feel for neural systems, I went out and purchased a basic system. To learn how it works I built a system of nets for the california state lottery. As funny as it sounds I out perform quick picks head to head. When I run the system I will compare my numbers to quick picks that the office workers play. my best was +/- of less than 6 from the actual draw. Multiple times it has picked 3 of 6 back to back but never all of them.

Being that a lottery is completely random, I assume that a market like the EUR/USD should be somewhat predictable. Each market traded consists of mainly the same group of traders day in and day out, not always the same and all in different moods. They still think in herd like fashion at any given time, this should make easy to predict and pick off.

So to make a long story short and sorry for rambling, I am just looking your input as well as forums adivice on where to go for some solid neural software that can be used in building my own FX indicators for trading.

Once the stage of aquiring software is complete I will be more than willing to share my results with everybody.
On that note, Rome was not built in a day so the evolution of a trading system that incorporates neural systems may take some time.

Thanks for your time and once again, I am happy to have found this forum.

pip hunter
  • #50
  • Dec 5, 2005 11:21pm Dec 5, 2005 11:21pm
[quote]
Quoting Thruline
Thanks for the in-depth review FT. I've always wondered about this software. You made a great case for enhancing trading opportunities with it. One issue to consider is that the updates are at least in part needed to account for changing market characteristics (as distinct from updates for software interface, or adding features, etc). Right? I mean, markets change, go through cycles. And in this case, it's the relationship between markets going through such changes that's relevant. For example the way the relationship between the stock market and bonds has shifted over the last 20 years. In other words, older intermarket algorthymns/models may not work so well. I don't know if that's true; seems logical to me though.
Periodically VP's software is retrained to enhance reliability as market conditions change. This is rather infreqent with VP but necessary especially considering that intermarket relationships do change and sometimes in ways that have never been previously experienced during recorded market history. The Euro has been introduced. That has changed currency relationships in a permanent way. VP existed before the EURO did. In fact I had to ditch my deutchmark VP module when that happened.
  • #51
  • Dec 5, 2005 11:33pm Dec 5, 2005 11:33pm
[quote]
Quoting Trinity
Hi FT

I've looked at the reviews on the website, as well as yours, and it seems to me that VP is best used as a setup. The entry is perhaps best made after confirmation with the user's method or system.
Right. I think the difference between an experienced trader and a novice is that the novice may use the ma cross in VP as an entry signal whereas a knowledgeable trader may tend to use it as a trend or reversal indicator and then look for an entry using other means.

Quote
Now, I appreciate that the PF Course is going to be a means to develop and/or hone trading skills, but does VP have sufficient (or any) indicators and tools, apart from the five neural networks and the concomitant daily reports in four sections, and a historical report.
Lane Mendelsohn sent me a link to a new site he has developed: www.tradingeducation.com/newsletter which you may find useful. The December 2nd newsletter is the one to check. He has articles by some big names in trading there.

Quote
If not, I guess a charting program like VT Trader (free) or Xtick would be advisable for implementing the signals for entry and exit.
For intraday you may need some kind of chart like metatrader or tradestation or others like VT etc.

Quote
Can you help with this? Any other points concerning practical use would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Trinity[/QUOTE
I hope this helps. I've been talking with some people on the telephone who have PM'd me and given them more details about trading VP. I talked with one trader who recently bought a 10 market special from them and his first trading day produced a nice profit. It is always nice to get off to a good start when trading a new system.
  • #52
  • Dec 5, 2005 11:46pm Dec 5, 2005 11:46pm
[quote]
Quoting pip_hunter
Hi Fiji,

I hope you don't mind me me posting my quetion here. If it needs to have it's own thread I apologize and please move it accordingly.
This is the right place.

Quote
My question to you is, what other neural software have you reviewed?
I see that there are software companys out there(on the web) selling their programs and indicators.
None. Other neural software that I've looked at requires so much work that I was not interested. I like to trade but I'm not crazy about programming. If I thought of a way to do better than VP with neural networks I'd hire someone to program my ideas. So far I'm convinced I make more money trading than spending it on programmers.

Quote
So you know where I am coming from, I traded a live account and my own system but never enjoyed the positive results, even when looking back at the chart they should have been good trades. So to eliminate emotion, I took my system, tweaked it and automated it at the same time. For awhile I have toyed with the idea of adding a neural piece to the sytem.
Good. What is your equity curve like?

Quote
Wanting to get a feel for neural systems, I went out and purchased a basic system. To learn how it works I built a system of nets for the california state lottery. As funny as it sounds I out perform quick picks head to head. When I run the system I will compare my numbers to quick picks that the office workers play. my best was +/- of less than 6 from the actual draw. Multiple times it has picked 3 of 6 back to back but never all of them.
Having never bought a lottery ticket I'm not sure of the implications of your numbers. I'm wondering if what you accomplished makes money in the lottery?

Quote
Being that a lottery is completely random, I assume that a market like the EUR/USD should be somewhat predictable. Each market traded consists of mainly the same group of traders day in and day out, not always the same and all in different moods. They still think in herd like fashion at any given time, this should make easy to predict and pick off.
There is truth to this. I think that a higher percentage of the market moving money in Forex trading is probably more savvy money than most equity or futures markets. In other words herd mentality may not be as strong in Forex.

Quote
So to make a long story short and sorry for rambling, I am just looking your input as well as forums adivice on where to go for some solid neural software that can be used in building my own FX indicators for trading.
I wish I could be more help. You could check out Mark Jurik. I think it is www.jurikres.com. I've purchase some of his indicators and they are pretty slick. I think he has developed some of the most interesting research into filtering market noise that I've seen.

Quote
Once the stage of aquiring software is complete I will be more than willing to share my results with everybody.
On that note, Rome was not built in a day so the evolution of a trading system that incorporates neural systems may take some time.

Thanks for your time and once again, I am happy to have found this forum.

pip hunter[/QUOTE
Nice of you.

FT
  • #53
  • Dec 7, 2005 11:04pm Dec 7, 2005 11:04pm
Hi, just visited forexfactory for the first time in months and have been reading FijiTrader's threads on VantagePoint which is kind of a coincidence as VantagePoint is being offered at $995 for 10 markets, offer expires tomorrow the 9th. At that price and with FijiTrader's insight, how can i refuse to buy it.

Seadog
  • #54
  • Dec 8, 2005 7:54am Dec 8, 2005 7:54am
I'm getting emails for $1395 for six markets. Whatever the market will bear, I guess. Perhaps each sales person has some lattitude and some are more agressive than others; like traders... ;-)


Thru
  • #55
  • Dec 8, 2005 11:33am Dec 8, 2005 11:33am
Guys, can you tell me how to get this special price offer? I don't see it on their web site.
Thanks,
Vojkan
  • #56
  • Dec 8, 2005 5:57pm Dec 8, 2005 5:57pm
Quoting Sailor
Guys, can you tell me how to get this special price offer? I don't see it on their web site.
Thanks,
Vojkan
Simple. Just contact them via their 800 sales line number and tell them you heard about the 10 market special for 995.00.
  • #57
  • Dec 9, 2005 7:57pm Dec 9, 2005 7:57pm
Like mcdirt in another thread i bought the software yesterday on the last day of the offer at $995 for 10 markets.

A VP system development thread would certainly be nice so will be a regular visitor here now to follow the VantagePoint threads.
  • #58
  • Dec 9, 2005 8:09pm Dec 9, 2005 8:09pm
Wow ! Great, now everyone have VP on their pc
  • #59
  • Dec 11, 2005 6:46pm Dec 11, 2005 6:46pm
Well, add another trader who took the plunge. VP will arrive Monday afternoon. I will let you all know how it is working for me in a few weeks. If it helps me to get another 100 pips a week, I will be happy.

--Mark
  • #60
  • Edited 7:22pm Dec 12, 2005 5:35pm | Edited 7:22pm
Quoting bluemeasure
Hi FT,

Thanks very much for a great review of this s/w. Browsing through the Vantage Point website, I noticed that there's a claim of 80% accuracy. As you noted in the thread with the various graphs you posted, you've chosen days where the system has performed very well to illustrate your points. I wonder though whether your experience with the s/w is that the system is accurate 4 times out of 5; this just seems a "too good to be true" ratio taken at face value. And, secondly, on the days that the s/w was not able to forecast the day properly, just how far off was it and was is mostly for e.g. unexpected economic events?

Thank you!
You are right. 4 times out of 5 IS too good to be true. If you read the sample system thread, the review thread, and the graphics thread I've addressed this question in some detail. If you have trouble seeing any of the threads please contact Merlin at [email protected].

As for the days it was off target please see the graphics that are less than complimentary of the predictions. Sometimes the range is much less than predicted and during strong trends the opposite s/r is not often hit but the market just opens and heads in the direction of the trend -- all too frequently blasting (in the trend direction) right through the s/r for the day. Therefore when trending is strong you may miss getting into low risk trades but my experience shows that it is not wise to trade counter trend using predicted s/r when trending is strong.

FT

FT
0 traders viewing now