Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make? | Page 56 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Forex Mentors/Gurus publish your accounts records 10 replies

Success Stories--Those without Harvard Education, Aweso Mentors, or Genius Intellect. 46 replies

Are commercial trading mentors sucessful? 17 replies

Mentors & Tutors for new traders 39 replies

Attachments: Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?
Exit Attachments

Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?

  • #1,101
  • Edited 2:30pm Dec 13, 2009 1:55pm | Edited 2:30pm
Quoting Marsh
No, not really. I just want to make money. I have heard that trading must fit your personality so many times I could just about vomit, but at this point it really makes no difference to me.
That is one difference between us. After about a year of reading about Forex (forums and books) Trend Trading 'clicked' with me. It was after I decided that trend trading maybe a good fit that I joined Jacko's group. So maybe that difference set a different expectation for me. Will I be trend trading a year or two from now? maybe yes maybe no. We'll see. I'm still finding my way a little bit more each day.

Quote
A system is a system, and if you cannot handle the periods of drawdowns that a trend based system usually suffers, the you most likely wont be able to handle a string of losses that a high hit rate system will inevitably incur.
I can agree with this. A Trend Trading method can get killed in sideways markets and it really separates the men from the boys, so to speak. As it has been said, if you can't take a losses, stop trading.

Quote
The bottom line is you either trust your system or you don't. In my situation, I ran out of reasons to trust Jacko's system.
People can tell you and one can read all they want, but until they experience something it is different. I know for me personally one the biggest things I've gotten out of joining Jacko's group is seeing a trader who does trust himself and his method 100% and executes it consistently. Seeing that live really made that point sink in and showed me that YES, once you have a profitable method and know how to trade it you can and have to trust it. This was a HUGE for me.

Quote
Moreso, the only way anyone is going to develop the discretion needed to trade his methods is on a one-to-one basis.
Mostly disagree on this point, but not a biggie. One can form their own discretion over enough time, but that is a different thing there. Methods are frameworks for a way of looking at the markets.

Quote
Trading is too difficult for anyone to just read a blog and trade some signals and start making money like he says he does. The odds of that are incredibly small, and he does not provide the sufficient tools.
50/50 on this point, as I said watching a trader go about his day and follow his method was HUGE eye opener for me. The trust and consistency of following ones method was something important for me to see and experience.

I know the nature of the EUR/USD as of late has been tough, but IF and a big IF, the dollar bulls are correct and we are going to trend for the next 6-18 months, I think you will see the REAL POWER of the method. So I hope you have a good number of months left with the group (and you can sit on the sidelines if you like, but when we trend hard I think / hope you will be able see what this method can really do).

Obviously, we went into the group with different set of expectations (I feel mine were appropriately set and had a good idea of what I was to expect) and have a different take on it. But hey, we each in the end have to find what we are comfortable with and if Trend Trading ain't your thing that just means another style is. At least you have an opportunity to find out what doesn't work on your way to find out what does work.

Hope you find something that 'clicks' with you. This is one of many steps on the journey.

And just a side note, we're trading during a time where history is being made with the economic and financial crisis. Which means great opportunity's and risks. Find a way to take advantage.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,102
  • Dec 13, 2009 8:45pm Dec 13, 2009 8:45pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
...And just a side note, we're trading during a time where history is being made with the economic and financial crisis. Which means great opportunity's and risks. Find a way to take advantage.
Actually IMHO I think this message goes to everyone and every single trader, This is such a turning over point and still turbulent time and may (with lots of precautions) be a golden time for trading..
  • #1,103
  • Dec 14, 2009 2:55am Dec 14, 2009 2:55am
Quoting coscorp
No, not only the psychology of the person per se in that given moment - but also the other factors which revolve around us each day - peer pressure, family, work (if present) and the list can go on imo. Certainly, in the end they can all be tied in to psychology in some manner as each will have it's influence on one's behaviour, expectations and whatnot but I like to try to break them down into their own separate group. Helps focus better on what may or may not have been the cause of a particular decision/trade - good or bad.

again - just my .02...
If you've got a trading plan, which works, and you've got the patience/discipline to trade it then you can't help but make money, why complicate?
  • #1,104
  • Dec 14, 2009 3:16am Dec 14, 2009 3:16am
Quoting pipmutt
If you've got a trading plan, which works, and you've got the patience/discipline to trade it then you can't help but make money, why complicate?

Agreed - but I think you will find that what I highlighted is where problem n1 stands.

Discipline will inevitably bring consistency (given one isn't looking at the Bat Guano Index while trading GY ) and consistency will inevitably bring profit with the correct MM in place.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #1,105
  • Dec 14, 2009 3:28am Dec 14, 2009 3:28am
Quoting coscorp
(given one isn't looking at the Bat Guano Index while trading GY )
lol, you've done that as well huh

Maybe I'm over-simplifying it but I really can't understand why people have such a hard time with trading.

A nice simple strategy, like you say good money management, and bingo! How hard can that be?
  • #1,106
  • Dec 14, 2009 7:20am Dec 14, 2009 7:20am
I am sorry guys but I just simply cannot accept this, and honestly it is comments like the ones below that make me doubt the profitability of the author.

Quoting pipmutt
If you've got a trading plan, which works, and you've got the patience/discipline to trade it then you can't help but make money, why complicate?
Can a trader reach a point where he can't help but make money? To me the answer is an obvious NO. Common edges in this market can disappear at any moment, if only for a moment, and the exploiting trader must be ready because that moment may be just long enough to wipe out his profits. Yes, its complicated.

Quoting coscorp
Discipline will inevitably bring consistency (given one isn't looking at the Bat Guano Index while trading GY ) and consistency will inevitably bring profit with the correct MM in place.
I don't believe anything will inevitably bring consistency, much less profit, ESPECIALLY discipline or money management. In my opinion the longer a trader lasts is relative to his ability to adapt with changing market conditions; to determine when a system has run its course and needs to be reevaluated. In a game of probabilities and expectancies, nothing is certain.

Quoting pipmutt
Maybe I'm over-simplifying it but I really can't understand why people have such a hard time with trading.

A nice simple strategy, like you say good money management, and bingo! How hard can that be?
Again, trading is anything except easy. No professional I have spoken to would say, "How hard can that be?"

Now to bring the all back around to the topic at hand, how does discipline even apply to a trading style like Jacko (Pipmutt, I know you don't trade his method)? This is where he seems amateur. To me, discipline is about following rules. He doesn't really have any rules. Saying you use S/R, round numbers, 50% Fib, and trade ONLY in the direction of the trend are not rules when: each trade uses those tools differently (ie sometimes 50% fib, sometimes only S/R, sometimes all three, sometimes NONE? ("i saw a big move and just new I had to get in, sorry I could't get the text out"))...it is also hard to use discipline when there is no trend to trade. Jacko is not a directional trend trader. He uses 'counter-trend' just as often, but this is to say that he, like everyone else, really has no clue where the market will be tommorrow, next week, next year.

His idea of "if a chart starts in the bottom left and ends at the top right its up trending" only tells you that a trend already happened. If I looked at a chart like the one he describes, I would say, "aww shit, looks like I just missed the trend". To assume the market will continue to move up forever is what a novice investor does right before a bubble pops. A novice daytrader does this on a smaller scale. An effective trend trader gets in the market during the early stages of a trend, and rides it until it has entered the early stages of reversal. I do not hear Jacko talking about any of this. In fact to me he does not fit the bill of a professional at all, at least not compared to the others I have spoken with.



Breather...



Alright, I have enjoyed the civility of the conversation so far and would like to keep it that way. I am just stating my observations, and I know some of them will rub readers the wrong way, but that is OK. Remember, I am still in the learning stages of profiting from the market, so of course I am skeptical of everything I read. But I have done an extraordinary amount of research on many topics of trading, and believe my input has some credit. I am open to be proven wrong on any of my statements and hope they are not taken in the wrong way. Thank you,

Marsh
All I ask for is a chance to prove that money cannot make me happy.
  • #1,107
  • Dec 14, 2009 10:38am Dec 14, 2009 10:38am
marsh - points taken - what I have found is that all else being in place (and there is a lot to be taken care of I never intended to dispute that - be it on an emotional level, technical, analytical or whatever) quite simply being consistent is the key.Achieving consistency in the proper form (ie which allows us to profit - leaving aside the extent etc )is, imho, the hardest facet of trading one has to achieve to have any chance of long term success.
The only true factor that will allow that consistency to emerge is ourselves and in order for that to happen - the true first step in that direction, is Discipline. I don't want to over simplify a topic which can easily span from market analysis to having a headache, according to whom is discussing it and when, but without consistency there isn't a chance in hell to last in this business.

Thats my experience thus far.


Incidentally, one can also be disciplined and consistent and lose all the time - the problem then lies somewhere else.

Cheers

Quoting Marsh
I am sorry guys but I just simply cannot accept this, and honestly it is comments like the ones below that make me doubt the profitability of the author.



Can a trader reach a point where he can't help but make money? To me the answer is an obvious NO....
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #1,108
  • Dec 14, 2009 11:39am Dec 14, 2009 11:39am
Quoting Marsh
I am sorry guys but I just simply cannot accept this, and honestly it is comments like the ones below that make me doubt the profitability of the author.
On the contrary, it's comments people make about how complicated the market is and how difficult trading is that makes one doubt the profitability of the author. Those who have achieved consistent profitability know perfectly well how simple trading can be and how it really is hard not to make money. Granted they probably had to go through the same process you're going through now, just like every other novice has to.

There's too much in your post to go into, and it's straying off the topic slightly, but for example....

"Common edges in this market can disappear at any moment, if only for a moment, and the exploiting trader must be ready because that moment may be just long enough to wipe out his profits. Yes, its complicated."

Common edges disappear? Really? If you're talking about a trading strategy becoming less effective due to changes in market conditions then sure, they can come and go, but you wouldn't allow their loss of effectiveness to wipe out profits. Trading strategies aren't a traders edge though, that's a common misconception.

As far as Jacko's strategy, if it's entering on retracements in the direction of a trend and using a stop loss then I imagine every trader on the planet trades his method, it's not exactly rocket science, it's hardly innovative!

On the other hand if he doesn't have any rules and can't see a trend until it's over then I don't know how he expects to teach people because he doesn't appear to be teaching them anything else!
  • #1,109
  • Dec 14, 2009 11:54am Dec 14, 2009 11:54am
Quoting pipmutt
On the other hand if he doesn't have any rules and can't see a trend until it's over then I don't know how he expects to teach people because he doesn't appear to be teaching them anything else!
Are these types of comments really necessary for the discussion? If you want to go back n' forth like before and head for the recycle bin, keep it up.

I know you can't stop with the cheap shots...
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,110
  • Dec 14, 2009 11:59am Dec 14, 2009 11:59am
Quoting LasVahGoose
Are these types of comments really necessary for the discussion? If you want to go back n' forth like before and head for the recycle bin, keep it up.

I know you can't stop with the cheap shots...
Get back in your pram, I was replying to Marsh's post...

"He doesn't really have any rules......His idea of "if a chart starts in the bottom left and ends at the top right its up trending" only tells you that a trend already happened. If I looked at a chart like the one he describes, I would say, "aww shit, looks like I just missed the trend". To assume the market will continue to move up forever is what a novice investor does right before a bubble pops. A novice daytrader does this on a smaller scale. An effective trend trader gets in the market during the early stages of a trend, and rides it until it has entered the early stages of reversal. I do not hear Jacko talking about any of this. In fact to me he does not fit the bill of a professional at all, at least not compared to the others I have spoken with."
  • #1,111
  • Dec 14, 2009 12:44pm Dec 14, 2009 12:44pm
he doesn't know what he's talking about and neither do you.


Quoting pipmutt
Get back in your pram, I was replying to Marsh's post...

"He doesn't really have any rules......[i]His idea of "if a chart starts in the bottom left and ends at the top right its up trending" only tells you that a trend already happened. If I looked at a chart like the one he describes, I would say, "aww shit, looks like I just missed the trend". To assume the market will continue to move up forever is what a novice investor does right before a bubble pops. A novice daytrader does this on a smaller scale. An effective trend trader gets...
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,112
  • Dec 14, 2009 12:44pm Dec 14, 2009 12:44pm
Thanks for the replies, and I agree with Pipmutt that we are getting off topic. As much as I would love to talk about my own trading pitfalls, it is of no help here.

Like daytrading, I don't really know if there is much else I can add. In conclusion, I would say that Jacko delivers what he says he will. If you are looking for trade calls, he will give them to you. What you do with those are up to the individual.

However, to me his success is in question. If it were a profitable business, he would be open about his work. It should be in question because he is selling a service. If he were just a free poster on this site, he would have full rights to refuse to post any proof of success. But he is selling something, and Ibelieve that every trader should require proof of success before joining a PAID service. Why? Because that is standard practice in many other areas of life, and getting scammed in the Forex market is just too easy. At this point, I think Jacko owes his current and potential members the curtesy of providing that information. It is not hard to produce, if it exists. The result would be a complete resolution to this fiasco of a thread, including apologies from myself as well as daytrading (as he mentioned). On top of that Jacko would most likely gain the business of many of the silent thread followers who are considering joining his group.

But again, I have my personal doubts that there will every be any proof of his trading success. It is more than the fact that he refuses to oblige this request that is disheartening to my $700 investment, but it is his attitue and reaction to this thread. Obviously a nerve has been struck, and when someone takes deep offence and overreacts in such a defensive way, then I assume it is because he feels threatened. I know this because it is how I react in similar situations when Iknow deep down I'm wrong and someone is calling me out on it. I get angry really quick.

Jacko is not replying to this thread anymore, so I will save myself from trying to request from him to reconsider his decision. I have no right to ask for proof of success of any of his followers, since they themselves are not selling something to anyone. All I can ask for is moderation from ForexFactory. Smjones had a good post, but I feel that a subject like needs needs resoltion, which won't happen if the thread is locked up and forgotten about. If FF choses to allow Jacko to advertise and recruit members for his paid business openly on a site that attracts uninformed traders, then I ask that they settle this questionable debate about his profitability. At this point I cannot see how it could get settled any other foreseeable way.

But as done before I will close this post with hope that it helps more than it hurts, as these are just my thoughts.

Marsh
All I ask for is a chance to prove that money cannot make me happy.
  • #1,113
  • Edited 5:55pm Dec 14, 2009 5:39pm | Edited 5:55pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
Are these types of comments really necessary for the discussion? If you want to go back n' forth like before and head for the recycle bin, keep it up.

I know you can't stop with the cheap shots...
There is nothing lost if the thread is binned...all it is is a pro or con opinion of Jacko...and free advertising for him...I bet he is laughing at all the people wasting their time on whether he is good or not...at the end of the day...all it does is give him free exposure, which may be what the thead starter wanted.
As SMJones said, both sides have made their points and it's time to move on.
Nobody is going to change the mind of somebody that already has an opinion on the subject...some noobs will wonder why he is so popular...
and the "Mentor??" is laughing all the way to the bank, to the tune of $700 per noob.
  • #1,114
  • Dec 14, 2009 6:15pm Dec 14, 2009 6:15pm
Quoting wwwin
There is nothing lost if the thread is binned..
True.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,115
  • Dec 14, 2009 7:27pm Dec 14, 2009 7:27pm
Quoting Marsh
Thanks for the replies, and I agree with Pipmutt that we are getting off topic.
Lol. Getting off topic? Didn't that happen about 1100 posts ago. There can't be more than a few dozen posts that ever were on topic. The title of the thread implies something different than simply a discussion based entirely on Jacko and wether or not he is for real.
  • #1,116
  • Dec 14, 2009 7:41pm Dec 14, 2009 7:41pm
Quoting billflet
Lol. Getting off topic? Didn't that happen about 1100 posts ago. There can't be more than a few dozen posts that ever were on topic. The title of the thread implies something different than simply a discussion based entirely on Jacko and wether or not he is for real.
Threads evolve Bill, and even Twee allowed the discussion to continue so I think the new topic at hand has been a good discussion. I agree that what is being talked about deserves a different title, but at this point it is not worth opening a different thread just for that. It can only be a waste of your time if you yourself do not find value in it, but that is not necessarily true for others.
All I ask for is a chance to prove that money cannot make me happy.
  • #1,117
  • Dec 14, 2009 10:03pm Dec 14, 2009 10:03pm
Quoting Marsh
Threads evolve Bill, and even Twee allowed the discussion to continue so I think the new topic at hand has been a good discussion. I agree that what is being talked about deserves a different title, but at this point it is not worth opening a different thread just for that. It can only be a waste of your time if you yourself do not find value in it, but that is not necessarily true for others.
You're right, they evolve and I never said it was a waste of time, though it has been said plenty by others. Or maybe I need to take that back. I did, in a PM, comment to a friend that I was spending too much time following the circus. But the fact that I knew it and continued reading it in hope of someone ultimately proving something--anything, proves I was inherently interested.

All in fun, the one post suggesting that the discussion was "getting off topic" (and I admit, I knowingly took it out of context) just seemed a little understated, like saying a leak on Titanic caused some confusion on its last trip out.

As for Twee allowing it; I doubt he's bothered either way if a thread evolves or runs adrift or falls flat. As long as the rules aren't broken.

My only complaint with the whole thing is that too many good people were behaving badly and completely out of character. In the end, after all the name calling and mud slinging, no one from either side ever really stepped up and offered any proof of the very things they were so passionate about. I'm not asking for proof either way, nor did I take sides. It just seems the battle could have been easily won early on if anyone had been willing to prove their claims. I still remain neutral.

To turn a bit back toward the original discussion about mentors and worthwhile investments: Seven hundred dollars isn't a tremendous amount of money. And in trading there are no guarantees of anything. In trading and searching for worthwhile instruction, reasonable expectations are called for. I don't believe a $700 investment in any trading service is going to be a guaranteed ticket to success. But combined with work and research and some more training, paid or otherwise, a good program could undoubtedly be a step in the right direction.

To be fair, I haven't heard too many complainers coming from Jacko's fold. And the few that do speak out don't seem entirely bitter--not the way some one would if they'd been out and out scammed. The majority seem content and that has to mean something. If they're happy with the service and what they're learning from it, then they're getting their money's worth.
  • #1,118
  • Dec 15, 2009 12:22am Dec 15, 2009 12:22am
Quoting billflet
....like saying a leak on Titanic caused some confusion on its last trip out....
lol, yeah I guess the 'off-topic' remark was pushing it a bit!


Quoting billflet
The majority seem content and that has to mean something.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
[In regione caecorum rex est luscus.]
Desiderius Erasmus (1466 - 1536)

  • #1,119
  • Dec 15, 2009 2:38am Dec 15, 2009 2:38am
Quoting pipmutt


In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
[In regione caecorum rex est luscus.]
Desiderius Erasmus (1466 - 1536)

Good analogy. Everyone tends to end up where they belong wether by effort or chance..

If there are people subscribing and getting a certain amount of satisfaction, wether it's emotional, or camaraderie, or they're actually learning something and making money, or Jacko has them all hypnotized, then let them have it. Each to his own--even if it's a one-eyed king in the land of the blind. In that land, the one-eyed man is the one with the superior sight.
If the people in the Land of Jacko are happy and content, then maybe they are exactly where they belong? And I mean that in the most neutral way.
  • #1,120
  • Dec 18, 2009 10:05pm Dec 18, 2009 10:05pm
Quoting billflet
Good analogy. Everyone tends to end up where they belong wether by effort or chance..

If there are people subscribing and getting a certain amount of satisfaction, wether it's emotional, or camaraderie, or they're actually learning something and making money, or Jacko has them all hypnotized, then let them have it. Each to his own--even if it's a one-eyed king in the land of the blind. In that land, the one-eyed man is the one with the superior sight.
If the people in the Land of Jacko are happy and content, then maybe they are exactly...
well said put lipstick on a pig and its still a pig
0 traders viewing now