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Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?

  • #1,041
  • Dec 10, 2009 10:20am Dec 10, 2009 10:20am
Quoting coscorp

A) Were you? If so (though IF memory serves me you had stated at one point that you had never been a member of Jackos' private group) then you have still violated Waynes' repeated requests for confidentiality and he has made that request in writing more than once in the members' blog. If you were not then please refer to my previous post.
I think Bernie Madoff made the same kinds of requests for secrecy too. A real legit business would offer this information without question. I think the fact that none of this information is not available is very very suspect at best.
  • #1,042
  • Dec 10, 2009 11:08am Dec 10, 2009 11:08am
He asks that what is written on the private blog which is reserved for those that choose to have a more direct realtionship with him stay within that blog.


What is wrong with that? All of those who are members' of his private group have full view of everything - why would anyone else have to have that possibility? You like it you join you don't like it you don't.


Have we truly come to the point that ones' right to privacy and/or trying to respect a specific kind of relationship or agreement is akin to being involved in something shady or worse being an out right criminal??

What has the world and lately FF come to.


BTW - Daytrading I am still awaiting a reply to my previous question which has nothing to do with you being a business or an astronaut and yet still awaits an answer. Specifically:

You have Wayne Jackson's written agreement and consent to post his private emails to you or anyone else? Whether, according to you, the material they contain is sensitive or not has no bearing whatsoever. So, again do you or have you ever had Wayne Jackson's written consent to post his correspondence with anyone including yourself?
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #1,043
  • Dec 10, 2009 11:31am Dec 10, 2009 11:31am
Coscorp,

Before I would answer any of your questions, which by the way are irrelevant at best, tell me this:

Would you be able to deliver the the proof that I am asking for from the business?

If the answer is no, then who has appointed you to be the mouthpiece of the business?

Personally, I think you are bored and have nothing better to do than to try and divert from what is really going on (unless, of course you still haven't understood) - but I let you know if I am in doubt about my methods of obtaining and bringing information to the thread.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #1,044
  • Dec 10, 2009 12:16pm Dec 10, 2009 12:16pm
Quoting daytrading
Coscorp,

Before I would answer any of your questions, which by the way are irrelevant at best, tell me this:
Irrelevant? Perhaps to you - to me (and perhaps others as well) they have a relevance...

You made a precise statement - specifically

Quote:
Originally Posted by daytrading
I have not posted private e-mails unless expressively agreed by the senders (otherwise I have kept the identities confidential). The e-mails I have obtained from the conversation involving WJ do not contain any sensitive material - only claims he also states on a public blog.

I asked for you to confirm whether or not you had actually received authorization from Wayne Jackson to do - simple enough to answer I would think. Applying your system the lack of an answer would induce one to think that have not....and in case you didn't know...thats' a BIG nono....on the other hand if you have, then great please excuse me for ever doubting - question answered and we can move on in this quagmire of self righteousness.

Quoting daytrading
Would you be able to deliver the the proof that I am asking for from the business?

If the answer is no, then who has appointed you to be the mouthpiece of the business?
If I chose to do so, relating to what my experience has been I don't believe I would have any obligation whatsoever either now or in the future towards you to do so. I know it's hard to accept but thats' life.

Mouthpiece? LOL I'm simply stating my view on the subject, from my viewpoint to which I believe I am fully entitled - which may or may not include rebutting some absurd hypothesis, innuendo and guilty by association tactics. Futher to this I believe I am not alone on this - we are all mouthpieces then? Or no, wait, we are all the same person posting under different aliases - is that it? If so easy to fix - note to Moderators please check my ip address and verify it against all other posters in this thread - and let us know the results.

Quoting daytrading
Personally, I think you are bored and have nothing better to do than to try and divert from what is really going on (unless, of course you still haven't understood) - but I let you know if I am in doubt about my methods of obtaining and bringing information to the thread.

regards
daytrading

Personally your thoughts on my personal life, boredom or lack thereof, have no bearing on whether or not I will continue to express my opinion on this issue.

In fact I find your posts quite hilarious albeit a bit sad lately.

Do as you please - free world after all.



Cheers
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #1,045
  • Dec 10, 2009 12:39pm Dec 10, 2009 12:39pm
Quoting coscorp

.....If I chose to do so, relating to what my experience has been I don't believe I would have any obligation whatsoever either now or in the future towards you to do so. I know it's hard to accept but thats' life.......


In fact I find your posts quite hilarious albeit a bit sad lately.
I'm pretty sure you'll find the feeling is mutual.

Your argument reminds me of listening to my kids arguing, "I could show you if I wanted to but I don't want to, so blah".

You call it 'life', I think you'll find it's called childish and only children can get away with it!

Anyway you're straying off the topic being discussed. If you can't (or for some obscure excuse won't) deliver the goods then 'nuff said, we understand.
  • #1,046
  • Dec 10, 2009 12:49pm Dec 10, 2009 12:49pm
Quoting coscorp
Irrelevant? Perhaps to you - to me (and perhaps others as well) they have a relevance...

You made a precise statement - specifically

Quote:
Originally Posted by daytrading...
Coscorp,

What makes you think that I have any interest in you or anything you might have to say?

Your contributions are focused on me and what I do to a large degree - for no discernible reason.

My focus is (and will stay) on the business and the questions I have asked.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #1,047
  • Dec 10, 2009 12:56pm Dec 10, 2009 12:56pm
Still no answer...go figure.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #1,048
  • Dec 10, 2009 1:27pm Dec 10, 2009 1:27pm
So how does anyone feel about "Forex Mentors--The Best Investment You Can Make?" Since that's the topic of the thread, maybe someone might care to weigh in. Or would it be just plain pointless to attempt discussing that here?
  • #1,049
  • Dec 10, 2009 1:54pm Dec 10, 2009 1:54pm
Quoting daytrading
My focus is (and will stay) on the business and the questions I have asked.
Sounds like you'll be around a long time, because your questions will never get answered.

So when you get bored with attacking said business, who's next on your list?
Maybe just go down the line of commercial sellers one by one?
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,050
  • Dec 10, 2009 2:12pm Dec 10, 2009 2:12pm
Quoting billflet
So how does anyone feel about "Forex Mentors--The Best Investment You Can Make?" Since that's the topic of the thread, maybe someone might care to weigh in. Or would it be just plain pointless to attempt discussing that here?
What a novel idea. My own feelings are that no service offered on ff constitutes a mentoring type relationship and therefore should not be discussed in a thread about mentoring.
  • #1,051
  • Dec 10, 2009 2:15pm Dec 10, 2009 2:15pm
Quoting billflet
So how does anyone feel about "Forex Mentors--The Best Investment You Can Make?" Since that's the topic of the thread, maybe someone might care to weigh in. Or would it be just plain pointless to attempt discussing that here?
Déjà vu?
  • #1,052
  • Dec 10, 2009 2:49pm Dec 10, 2009 2:49pm
Quoting pipmutt
A true mentor, on the other hand, tends to be more selective about who he is prepared to teach as he doesn't want to waste his (or his pupil's) time. He usually mentors on a one-to-one basis. His pay-off as a mentor doesn't come from how much revenue he generates from mentoring, it comes from having a genuine interest in seeing his pupil succeed and being instrumental in that success.
Ok, I'll weigh in with my 2 pips worth.

The ideal mentoring situation takes place one-on-one in physical space, not in a cyber chat room, forum, or blog. It's also not done for pay. The mentor is doing it for a deep love of (the game, or whatever) and a personal and abiding concern for the student. This is most often characterized by the parent passing the secrets of the family business on to the child.

Second best would be a "tutor/student" relationship. The student pays the tutor for individual instruction in a structured classroom setting possibly in the home of either the tutor or the student. Since the student is forking over his own money he's done his research and conducted personal interviews and is perhaps taking recommendations from family, friends, and/or colleagues.

Third is an on-the-job training situation. Both the student and the mentor, or more accurately the "trainer", are employed at the same company, say a bank or clearinghouse. It's part of the trainer's job description to (duh) train new hires. The trainer is being paid (by the company of course, not the student) and he probably couldn't care less personally about the student but at least it's conducted one-on-one and in real space.

The topic of this thread seems to be about the least desirable type of mentor/student relationship i.e., the student pays a stranger to teach him the intricacies of a complex subject over the internet. It's difficult to conceive of a worse case scenario but at least it's better than nothing if the mentor/trainer/coach is honest and competent.
  • #1,053
  • Dec 10, 2009 3:09pm Dec 10, 2009 3:09pm
Quoting opie999
Ok, I'll weigh in with my 2 pips worth........
A very good summary, IMO.

There's another very good post by billflet himself, earlier in the thread.
  • #1,054
  • Edited 3:53pm Dec 10, 2009 3:35pm | Edited 3:53pm
I don't think the definition of 'mentor' was ever agreed upon in the thread. Surprise. Surprise.

Everyone thinks of mentoring like Mr. Miyagi in the Karate Kid or Yoda mentoring Luke SkyWalker in Empire Strikes Back.

For a person that didn't grow up in a trading family, or had friends of the family there are traders, or don't have personal friends or co-workers that are traders, then you really have little choice but turn to the internet.

Luckily, Forex Factory has some great people here for those that have a less than ideal situation.

Finding a Mr. Miyagi or a Yoda is pretty much a pipe dream if that is ones idea of a mentor. But hey, it can happen...
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #1,055
  • Dec 10, 2009 4:39pm Dec 10, 2009 4:39pm
Quoting endroute
What a novel idea. My own feelings are that no service offered on ff constitutes a mentoring type relationship and therefore should not be discussed in a thread about mentoring.
I agree. I made my previous responses within the context of what most people here accept as a "mentor". But a simple paid chatroom or service doesn't fit my own definition of mentor.

To me at the very least, a proper mentor will build a rapport with his prospective student beforehand and if he feels he can help the person, then he would invite the student into his world. It's just my opinion but I don't feel a proper mentor would accept a student based solely on meeting cash-qualifications. They would consider taking money from someone with little potential as unethical, especially if the person forking over the cash is of limited means and has unrealistic expectations.

That's not meant to slight people who sell paid services. Some are actually worthwhile, but they don't fall in the category of mentor. I know of a few worthy paid service providers who would be quick to point out that they are not in fact mentors.

So maybe the question posed by the OP has more to do with paid service providers. We should be able to discuss that without turning the forum into a battlefield. Paid service providers come in all shapes and sizes and aren't limited to a single vendor. so why should the discussion be limited to one vendor.
  • #1,056
  • Dec 10, 2009 4:47pm Dec 10, 2009 4:47pm
Hi Folks. We feel it's time to say something about this thread. Many of you might feel we are late.

Regarding the calls to send this thread to the Recycle Bin, the reason we haven’t done so is because we feel that although the debate has it’s nasty times, it’s also thought provoking, insightful, and relevant to trading. This kind of debate couldn't have happened if not for the new Commercial Forum so we are trying hard not to send it to the Bin. We already move this thread once, from Trading Discussion to the Under Evaluation, because the debate is too heated for one of the main forums and by nature it’s focused on commercial services. And several times we’ve considered moving this thread to the Recycle Bin but barely decided against it. In other words, this thread is hanging on by the skin of it’s teeth.

Regarding the abuse that Pipmutt/Daytrading are laying on Jacko, we don’t feel it’s our place to do something about it. There’ve been numerous instances of a new member coming to the forum to slander someone like Jacko or James16, and those members are quickly banned since their motives are questionable. Pipmutt and Daytrading are much different though. They are both fully-vouched members making thoughtful arguments. That is not to say that we agree with their logic or that they are right, but we’ve seen contentious debate rather than slander. If there is slander that we’ve missed please Cleanup Report the specific post.

This debate has not been one sided. Jacko’s supporters far outnumber his dissenters and therefore we don’t view this as an attack on Jacko, but rather as an all-guns fight that should be expected from anyone who charges a fee to traders. Everyone in a position similar to Jacko’s has to constantly defend their value proposition because there is intense skepticism in the trading community. Jacko has garnered wide-spread support and displayed rare staying power – this is a strong testament to his value as a mentor and stands on it’s own. Jacko doesn’t need Forex Factory to silence senior members who question his value.

Regarding Forex Factory's affiliation with products and services in the Commercial Forum, it has been alluded to that Forex Factory is a partner of some of these products and services. This is not true. Forex Factory doesn’t receive money or kick-backs from any product or service. We are friendly with a few business operators but that is the extent of our relationships. Forex Factory makes money only through the Preferred Brokers who advertise the banners you see on top and left of this page.

The fate of this thread is uncertain. Our hope is that everyone can turn up the civility-dial about two notches so it can be more educational (pretty please?). If things don’t improve we may have to Bin it. Let’s see how it goes from here.
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  • #1,057
  • Dec 10, 2009 5:40pm Dec 10, 2009 5:40pm
Well folks, that's it.

A victory for all members who believe that my intentions during the time I was posting here were personal.

I do not possess the staying power attributed to the subject of my enquiry - neither do I wish to attain it.

For the forum to back what is morally more than questionable, I cannot understand - but fully respect it.

For all the people who have engaged in the constructive part of the discussion, I thank you and wish you all the best.

I would like to extend my gratitude especially to all those members who privately came forward and were sympathetic to the cause.

Twee, if you could be so kind to delete my profile completely from the factory.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #1,058
  • Dec 10, 2009 6:05pm Dec 10, 2009 6:05pm
Quoting daytrading
A victory for all members who believe that my intentions during the time I was posting here were personal.

For the forum to back what is morally more than questionable, I cannot understand - but fully respect it.

regards
daytrading
I must have missed something. It seemed reasonably clear to me that Twee & Co. voted on your side. They've basically given you the green light to continue with your efforts if you so choose.
  • #1,059
  • Dec 10, 2009 6:39pm Dec 10, 2009 6:39pm
Quoting opie999
I must have missed something. It seemed reasonably clear to me that Twee & Co. voted on your side. They've basically given you the green light to continue with your efforts if you so choose.
That's how I read it.
  • #1,060
  • Dec 10, 2009 6:57pm Dec 10, 2009 6:57pm
DT wanted to get Jacko banned, since that isn't going to happen he's leaving.
That is the way I read it, anyways.

I'm sure he'll be back. Nobody leaves the Factory. Mauahahah.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
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