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Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?

  • #981
  • Dec 8, 2009 4:09am Dec 8, 2009 4:09am
Hanover,

While your contributions are always more than welcome and the impartial nature of your posts are appreciated, there is an underlying problem with the presentation of these facts.

Although, as you have put it, they might be indisputable in the context you have shown, they are still subject to the question that addresses the outcome in terms if individual success for each and every member that is watching, voting or otherwise contributing to those threads.

If the hypothesis that over 90% of people attempting to become successful traders fail over time should hold true, then this would also apply to over 90% of people in any forum, or more specific to your research result.

That in turn would mean that regardless of how many people view or rate an individual thread, it does not reflect the general usefulness, but the subjective view which cannot be objectively measured (unless of course each and every member would keep journals and records of how the information extracted from reading a particular thread has made them better or in fact profitable traders over time).

Where does that leave the value of the forum?

How to quantify the value of such threads?

Look for what they do, claim and for some real evidence that is the foundation for the spoken and written word.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #982
  • Dec 8, 2009 9:47am Dec 8, 2009 9:47am


Quoting ak4x
On the other hand, I am picking up a few new Big Words. :nerd:
"The person who knows that enough is enough, will always have enough". .
  • #983
  • Dec 8, 2009 9:48am Dec 8, 2009 9:48am
superb very well done


Quoting hanover
I had my friend's son (don't worry, he's much smarter than I am) search FF and compile a XLS on the most 20+ popular trading systems here on the forum. These have been drawn from the Trading Systems, Trading Journals and Commercial areas. By 'popular', I mean the highest number of number of replies and views. A high star rating was also considered, and also the thread's longevity (how many days it's survived). Anyway, as to the criteria used, the judges' decision is final, LOL.

For whatever it's worth, Jacko's House of P&P is the 7th most durable,...
"The person who knows that enough is enough, will always have enough". .
  • #984
  • Edited 12:17pm Dec 8, 2009 10:19am | Edited 12:17pm
Quoting daytrading
ak4x,

Nice of you to chime in.


I tell you what a tall order is...

regards
daytrading
No worries... like the tinkling of the wind chimes on the porch I sit a'rd and drool on while rocking, I'll stop "chiming" as soon as the breeze lets up...

As far as stumbling into this thread, this is likely my last ((and ill advised...)) foray in this direction, altho I'll probably not be able to avoid staring if I pass by again, not unlike a motorist driving by the scene of a bad accident on the highway.

That sometimes ends badly for the 'starer' at worst and snarls traffic at best, as his attention is distracted from more important tasks like his own driving and avoiding the EMS responders...

I saw a reference to this thread elsewhere a couple days ago that descibed it as "a slow motion train wreck in progress"; apt description in hindsight, and much better than my feeble analogy above, but hey, I drool!!

Btw... I like my "tall order" definition better than yours, so how 'bout we agree to disagree?




Now how did I wind up sitting here in my rocking chair in the middle of the train tracks in my bathrobe blowing musical sounds out my chimehole?

And what's that loud whistle I hear....??

Attached Image
FUBAR...
  • #985
  • Dec 8, 2009 3:45pm Dec 8, 2009 3:45pm
Quoting daytrading
Where does that leave the value of the forum?
How to quantify the value of such threads?
Look for what they do, claim and for some real evidence that is the foundation for the spoken and written word.
These are very pertinent questions, IMO. Like I said, it's for each individual to draw his/her own conclusions.

Re "real evidence": My own view has not been swayed by this thread. I have not yet seen what I would personally regard as real evidence, either way. Having lost money to snake-oil salesmen, I've grown jaded and skeptical, hence I tend to take most promotional testimonials (like those at the beginning of the thread) with a grain of salt.

Quoting daytrading
How many signals during the week of November 29th until December 4th 2009. Just simply state how many signals received with entry/exit points and how much profit/loss on the trades.
No disrespect (especially as you are much more experienced than I am), but I feel that you're way too easily satisfied. In the case of a trader who trades only one pair (EU), and makes only 1-2 trades per week, there likely won't be too many signals, hence any results - positive or otherwise - could easily be deemed fortuitous.

For the sake of statistical validity, I would want to see a statement of the last 500 trades (as an absolute minimum), verified by an internationally reputable third party. For me, some kind of authentic verification is imperative. If, for example, a statement is from MT4, then it's originally in HTML format. It wouldn't take much work to load it into a text editor, multiply all of the position sizes and account balances by (say) 100 or 1,000, edit out some of the losing trades, re-adjust the closing balance, and post the end result.

I agree that what you (and others) are asking for is not at all unreasonable, but Mr Jackson has repeatedly stated that he will not post account statements, or his trade signals, publicly. I think it's perfectly understandable that some might see that as a red flag; I guess he's likewise weighed that up, as to how it might affect his own credibility. So the question becomes: How long will any doubters persist in restating a request that's fallen upon deaf ears from the outset of this thread?

The method in question is outlined fairly clearly in the first few posts of the P&P thread. To somebody like myself, the broad concepts seem as viable as virtually anything else: trade in the direction of the long term trend; enter at pullbacks to obvious S/R areas; use stoplosses to manage risk.

By his own admission, Mr Jackson has only been trading forex since c. 2006 (see post #3 in the P&P thread). However, if (and I stress IF) the underlying method is sound, then the signals should be on-balance valid, providing ample opportunity for the $700 fee to be recouped across a whole year's worth of mentored trades (or 6 months in demo first, to gauge performance). There are plenty of education services where the student must pay several thousand dollars for a weekend workshop, and then somehow 'put it all together' by himself. Of course value ultimately comes down to the quality of the material, but everything else being equal, the subscription losses with Jacko are limited to $700.

I agree that there are other possible ways to look at this. But at the end of the day, if one is shopping for forex education, the best one can do is attempt to weigh up pros and cons, perform as much due diligence as is humanly possible, and hope that they will obtain value for the $$$ spent.

If I have any self-discipline, this will be my last post here. I'm starting to repeat material that I wrote earlier, just like almost everybody else, LOL.
  • #986
  • Dec 8, 2009 4:42pm Dec 8, 2009 4:42pm
Hanover,

Thank you for a great post.

The reason I am asking for last weeks 'signals' is that I know them already - and it was for comparison purpose.

I also have enough data by now to show the majority of claims do not add up.

Since I am in conversation with the moderators, I'll wait for a little longer before making it public.

Again, much respect to you and thank you for your contributions.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #987
  • Dec 9, 2009 4:39am Dec 9, 2009 4:39am
I can see that the thread has been demoted to 3 from 4 stars - so it is time to post some interesting e-mail messages I have received during the course of this discussion.

To respect the wish of the members who came forward to help, I will keep their identity anonymous. The messages (in case anyone would doubt the authenticity), can be found in my FF private messages inbox, as well as in my personal e-mail folders including the members profile.

Some of the messages contain simple information while others contain hard evidence (in form of the much discussed SMS text messages from the business as well as other interesting facts), that may ultimately prove the nature of the service.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #988
  • Dec 9, 2009 5:52am Dec 9, 2009 5:52am
Attached some of the messages I received.

In the context of the discussion, some of them have no more weight than the OP's posts as well as the promotional comments made in this thread - what is interesting though, are the discrepancies between the amount of profits claimed to have been made and the seemingly different reality coming from the blog as well as from paying members.

regards
daytrading
Attached File(s)
File Type: doc Member e-mails and comments.doc   28 KB | 409 downloads
Enter Signature
  • #989
  • Dec 9, 2009 6:53am Dec 9, 2009 6:53am
Quoting daytrading
Attached some of the messages I received.

In the context of the discussion, some of them have no more weight than the OP's posts as well as the promotional comments made in this thread - what is interesting though, are the discrepancies between the amount of profits claimed to have been made and the seemingly different reality coming from the blog as well as from paying members.

regards
daytrading
Hold on a mo, dt - this is your evidence... one alleged disgruntled member who wants to remain anonymous (for what reason, pray ?) !?

Hanover - very good, balanced post, very much needed on this thread.

Mods - put this miserable thread to bed, once & for all. It is doing FF no credit at all.
  • #990
  • Dec 9, 2009 7:41am Dec 9, 2009 7:41am
Quoting jtrade
Mods - put this miserable thread to bed, once & for all. It is doing FF no credit at all.
I think you are the one who should go to bed ! why do you call this thread miserable ? after all the work pipmutt, daytrading and others have put in trying to find out the truth behind jacko`s marketing.
you should be ashamed of yourself.
The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that.
  • #991
  • Dec 9, 2009 8:10am Dec 9, 2009 8:10am
Quoting jtrade
Hold on a mo, dt - this is your evidence... one alleged disgruntled member who wants to remain anonymous (for what reason, pray ?) !?

Hanover - very good, balanced post, very much needed on this thread.

Mods - put this miserable thread to bed, once & for all. It is doing FF no credit at all.
Jtrade,

read and understand - then comment.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #992
  • Dec 9, 2009 8:43am Dec 9, 2009 8:43am
Quoting daytrading
Attached some of the messages I received.

In the context of the discussion, some of them have no more weight than the OP's posts as well as the promotional comments made in this thread - what is interesting though, are the discrepancies between the amount of profits claimed to have been made and the seemingly different reality coming from the blog as well as from paying members.

regards
daytrading
I don't see anywhere on Jacko's blog on december 4th(I think you meant 4th not 5th), or anywhere near that date, any claim that he made 160 pips. The message that you have there refers to a trade taken earlier that week which by his own admission was a poor trade.

Tim
  • #993
  • Dec 9, 2009 8:58am Dec 9, 2009 8:58am
Well, I am not positing anonymous.

Below is a conversation from this thread I had with the member Coscorp a few days ago:


coscorp
Member

Member Since Dec 2007
577 Posts

DT...there is one minor issue you may not be aware of.


He runs a Fund as well - which is regularly audited.


but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Cheers
__________________
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero

#896
Dec 2, 2009 4:53am
daytrading
Prop-Trader

Member Since Sep 2007
681 Posts

Ok,

what is the funds name and website?

regards
daytrading

P.S. as you said - this is a minor issue and has nothing to do with the points I am raising and the regulatory issues of this forum.

#897
Dec 2, 2009 5:02am
coscorp
Member

Member Since Dec 2007
577 Posts

I'm not at liberty to divulge that information. Sorry.


Again you are fully entitled to your opinion - just a pity you would direct so much energy towards what I believe is the wrong target.

But to each his own as I always say.

cheers
__________________
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero



The 'minor issue' which claims the existence of a regularly audited fund sparked my interest, hence I made a few inquiries (like one would carry out due diligence before investing, for example).

Like in the united Kingdom, Hong Kong has a government agency that records all legal business entities. In the UK it is called 'Companies house' and in HK the agency is referred to as GovHK (both websites below).

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/

http://www.gov.hk/en/business/regist...pany/index.htm

These agencies provide information on every existing corporation in their jurisdiction (including audited accounts for every company).

I thought that maybe, if the person in question is the manager/owner of a real legitimate business entity that is subject to public scrutiny, I might be wrong with my assumptions about the credibility of that person.

So, I found out the name of the business including an address under which it is supposed to operate. According to the HK authorities, no such business exists (which can easily be verified through the search function on website given). Under the address, several business entities are registered, none of them being in any way related to a particular financial service company.

More to come...

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #994
  • Dec 9, 2009 8:59am Dec 9, 2009 8:59am
Quoting flytim
I don't see anywhere on Jacko's blog on december 4th(I think you meant 4th not 5th), or anywhere near that date, any claim that he made 160 pips. The message that you have there refers to a trade taken earlier that week which by his own admission was a poor trade.

Tim
Tim,

send me a pm and I will send you proof in confidence - since I am not posting sensitive details just yet.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #995
  • Dec 9, 2009 9:22am Dec 9, 2009 9:22am
Quoting daytrading
Tim,

send me a pm and I will send you proof in confidence - since I am not posting sensitive details just yet.

regards
daytrading
I don't need proof, as a member I have full access to his blog and I do not see any 160 pip claim there.

re: Hong Kong listed companies, I managed to find his fund listed and it states it is still an active company. Maybe you have the wrong name for the fund. It also states that it is a private company which I guess means you are unlikely to easily find any audited accounts for it. I don't have any money with the fund, I just know it's name from his blogs. Not sure the name of the fund has been mentioned yet and not sure if Jacko wants it published on this forum so i'll leave it at that for now.

Regards

Tim
  • #996
  • Dec 9, 2009 9:35am Dec 9, 2009 9:35am
Tim,

I have owned several companies in my time - and a 'private' limited company is not exempt from having its accounts on public record for your information.

I do have access to information regarding the claims of the funds profitability as well as its messages to its investors - including the 160 pip message below:

Friday, December 4, 2009
DECEMBER 2009
Trade 78 .......... December 4

Sold at 1.4995 (December 4 ....8.50am NY time)

Bought at 1.4835 (December 4 ........3.10pm NY time)

Profit 160 pips

December 4
A fast moving NFP day trade. The NFP figures came in MUCH better than expected at -11K vs expected -120K. The USD rapidly gained strength and was moving quickly so I took a quick opportunistic sell trade at my previous entry level of 1.4995 . I believed that the market had changed in sentiment and I thought that the market would go significantly lower.
The market moved so quickly that I did not have time after placing the trades and checking them to get the first notification SMS out. (the market had dropped 44 pips within minutes after placing the trades and I was hoping for a quick retrace which never came...The market dropped 80 pips within 10 minutes and any chance of sending an SMS was gone).
My first priority is to get the trades on for the investors in the Fund.

At 3.10pm, the liquidity of the market was quickly drying up so instead of holding out for a hoped for 1.4800 target price, I closed the trades at 1.4835. I did not want to hold these over the weekend.

regards
daytrading

P.S. The company you are referring to does not exist as far as I can see - but if it does, I am more than happy to see the audited accounts plus the registered address (if different from the one I have obtained).
Enter Signature
  • #997
  • Dec 9, 2009 9:41am Dec 9, 2009 9:41am
I have owned several companies in my time - and a 'private' limited company is not exempt from having its accounts on public record for your information.
r u sure ?


Friday, December 4, 2009
DECEMBER 2009
Trade 78 .......... December 4

Sold at 1.4995 (December 4 ....8.50am NY time)

Bought at 1.4835 (December 4 ........3.10pm NY time)

Profit 160 pips

are u sure ? and if sure how sure ? very sure ? not so sure , maybe sure ?

didnt i tell u to go play away ?
  • #998
  • Dec 9, 2009 9:49am Dec 9, 2009 9:49am
Quoting samer960
I have owned several companies in my time - and a 'private' limited company is not exempt from having its accounts on public record for your information.
r u sure ?


Friday, December 4, 2009
DECEMBER 2009
Trade 78 .......... December 4

Sold at 1.4995 (December 4 ....8.50am NY time)

Bought at 1.4835 (December 4 ........3.10pm NY time)

Profit 160 pips

are u sure ? and if sure how sure ? very sure ? not so sure , maybe sure ?

didnt i tell u to go play away ?
Samer,

You are obviously posting under the influence of some heavy mind-altering hallucinogenics if you are under the impression that anyone would understand or follow your advice.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #999
  • Dec 9, 2009 9:56am Dec 9, 2009 9:56am
Quoting daytrading
Tim,

I have owned several companies in my time - and a 'private' limited company is not exempt from having its accounts on public record for your information.

I do have access to information regarding the claims of the funds profitability as well as its messages to its investors - including the 160 pip message below:

[color="Blue"]Friday, December 4, 2009
DECEMBER 2009
Trade 78 .......... December 4

Sold at 1.4995 (December 4 ....8.50am NY time)

Bought at 1.4835 (December 4 ........3.10pm NY time)

Profit 160 pips

December...
DT,

the quote you have there seems to be from the funds blog not the group blog. I don't read the fund blog, in fact can't even remember the password to access it right now. As such i can't comment on that quote. But if he failed to give the group an sms then so be it, after all he doesn't claim to be a signal service and as such I don't think he guarantees he'll be able to sms all his trades. his intention to take the trade at around that price was stated in an earlier message and surely that should be enough. That said i missed that trade because I was walking the dog and the price had moved off quite far by the time I was back. An sms wouldn't have made any difference to that.

I'm not sure in what way you mean the company doesn't exist as the search i made did come up with an active company. I'm not up on company law so maybe the accounts are obtainable, if you say so, but i wouldn't know where to start looking and I'm not really that bothered. You'll probably have a better idea where to find them.

regards

Tim
  • #1,000
  • Dec 9, 2009 9:57am Dec 9, 2009 9:57am
hallucinogenics

i can't even say the word


Quoting daytrading
Samer,

You are obviously posting under the influence of some heavy mind-altering hallucinogenics if you are under the impression that anyone would understand or follow your advice.

regards
daytrading
"The person who knows that enough is enough, will always have enough". .
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