Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?

I hope you're not seriously putting Wayne Jacko Jackson in anywhere near the same league as the people you've used in your example!

That aside, despite their publicly recognized success and their transparency, as far as I can see they all offer such things as free trials, free seminars, free lessons. In other words a potential customer can have a look to see what he's buying before he pays a cent, and he can also see the caliber of business he's buying it from and that's the way it should be, it's expected business practice and just plain common sense.

Now compare that to an unknown vendor who is far from transparent and who offers no free preview of his wares.

It's not exactly rocket science to see where there's potential for a rip-off!

Jacko only has a free thread on Forex Factory that is the exact same method as the paid service. It's even better than those vendors since you can preview the method 100% anonymous without having to give up your personal information.

You can actually learn the whole method one your own for free from the thread.

Can't get a better preview then that and you can even get your questions answered on the thread from Jacko or other members.

Touchè......

Really? Wow what a revelation, you mean that's it, the somewhat garbled content of that thread is the total sum of his trading methods?

Compare the content of that thread to the content of the websites Zeke linked to, the difference in quality is hard to miss! One is from an amateur, the others from professional people.

Even more evidence, if any were needed, of the massive divide between the professional trader training and education outfits with transparent proven and publicly recognised success records of achievements, against a forum thread from an unknown who is secretive and far from transparent!

Well it's all coming out now, from page 61 onwards has been a real exposé!

Actually.......yes it's all there...





































































on Page 1.....

Nothing but clutching at straws.

Empty claims unless proven otherwise.

There is no point in trying to uphold something that is clearly not there - except to divert from what looks like the obvious truth.

Why don't you for a moment forget who is posting this and focus on the subject matter.

Facts are:

Claims have been made in written form on two different threads as well as on a blog (and otherwise which I will present here in due course).

None of the claims have any substance unless evidence is shown.

Claiming to have entered trades at specific times (and specific levels) does not represent proof of the trades actually having been taken.

If I say that I went long on a public thread, I can send you a statement (audited if necessary - especially if I ask for money in return to send people the entry/exit levels).

Claims of having taken trades in a specific size does not constitute truth.

Sending out text messages with entry/exit points for a fee without proving to actually taking those trades constitutes a signal service.

Signal services according to FF are banned from the commercial section.

So, all the other stuff about me, the hair splitting comments of some members and even totally unqualified comments that have nothing to do with the actual points raised (like the assumed value of $700 to some) can safely be ignored.

Stick to the facts - or better in this case to the non-existence of facts.
The non-existence of proof in spite of the ease of the possibility to produce the evidence asked for, (should it really exist), in contrast to the incredible amount of resistance and arguments brought here in order to stop a perfectly normal process from happening.

The process of asking for verification of claims is the most basic process in science and in business. Why (again) is there so much effort put in to barricading and slowing down that process.

Does the argument that people should do their own due diligence mean that businesses should stop coming forward with proof of their legitimacy until it will be found out that they might not be legitimate?

Does it make it right to operate a business in the fashion of saying: 'well, I am getting away with it until someone asks questions?'

People, it does not matter who asks the question or demands proof! It should be available freely upon request from any business anywhere.

Here, it was me who asked first - and not because I have some personal vendetta, but because it is a normal and legitimate question/demand to make on a business - specifically when it has been promoted/advertised in here.

Should it make a difference who asks for it? Is it easier to fob-off a new member with less experience? Would that really be the right moral stance to take?

In reality, there is no way that anyone could seriously and with a clear conscious answer any of those question positively.

regards
daytrading

Good morning.

This week I will start off with an example of what type of information one will receive if interested in becoming a paying member of the 'service' in question.

The due diligence that has been discussed here for newbies to carry out.

The following is a conversation that has taken place on a personal level (a kind acquaintance has helped me out and with all private sources of information, I am obliged to keep such information confidential).




Saturday, 28 November, 2009 20:00:21

Dear Mr. Jackson,

I have seen you on forex factory and would like some information about your service and yourself if that is possible.

Having read through some controversial material, I would like (before making the decision to spend any money) to know a little more on your background.

On your blog, you mention that you have been trading for some 15 years on the futures market before starting to trade spot FX in 2006. In one of the threads I came across a post where you mention that you have been trading for 30 years now. Which one is it? How old are you?

What type of returns have you generated on average for the last 3-4 years?

Would you manage clients funds upon request?

Would you be able to provide any statements if necessary?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX


I have discussed this on an ethical basis with several friends in the business and have not found the construction of the questions in any way unclear or that we were asking for anything out of the ordinary.

Now, lets have a look at the first answer - which to no surprise omits the most important information - proof and numbers. No answers whatsoever about return, statements or anything that would be expected from a credible business that in its first reply asks for more details form the potential customer in order to forward payment details for the SMS signals to be sent out.


Here we go:


Hi XXXXXXX,

My name is Wayne Jackson,

As outlined in my post, I am looking for serious and committed traders who wish to learn how to trade.

What I am offering is:

1. Instant notification of all trades (all notification by SMS to personal cell-phones*).

2. Daily educational discussion of up coming trades and my reasons for "taking the trade" on a private website.

3. Followed by educational discussion of trading techniques including questions and answers from group members on a private website,.

4. I also attempt to answer all one on one emails from the group members within 24 hours (except on weekends)

5. In addition, you will have access to ALL the past information since the first group was formed, including selected questions from traders in the group.
*This will be of educational value because it allows you to see the exact time of the decision and you can then verify the time against my weekly educational discussions.
The cost of this "educational training" is USD$700 for a 12 month period (This fee is to ensure that only traders who are serious about trading are involved). Also, this covers the cost of international SMS messages for one year. The cost is based on less than $2 per day.

As you would be aware, this will be my second small group. I would expect this group to also be a small but serious and committed group. No member of the first group is in loss and ALL have significantly improved their trading with resultant increases in profitability.

What we require from you is:
1. Your name and country
2. Your personal cell phone number, including your country code
3. Your preferred email address
4. OPTIONAL..Any other personal details (trading experience etc) that you wish to add.

I will then forward our bank details and after payment of USD$700 has been received we will commence our SMS and emails to you within 7 days. This will continue for a minimum of 12 months from that date.

We are reasonably comfortable that, should it go as well as I hope, that we will all be friends with a common passion rather than business acquaintances.
I am really excited by this project and am seriously looking forward to building a really solid core of successful trend traders.



Best regards,

Wayne Jackson



Now, all this I know from the blog and the thread on FF - as stated in my initial e-mail request. Why would I want that repeated and the main questions I asked not to be answered is a mystery.

I guess some newbies might give up asking further questions at this time - but please, If anyone had a different more enlightening experience, please come forward and share it here for all to read.

regards
daytrading

Good morning, daytrading.

I'm thinking that you really need to get out more.... this thread has become a personal fixation, however elegant & precise your command of the English language may be (and I have never doubted your ability as a trader). The only thing you have actually proved is that you have an even bigger ego than Jacko, the object of your fixation.

The thing about the witchhunts in the Middle Ages was that all the witches burnt by the righteous weren't actually witches...

Ok,

Here is another e-mail that was sent out in order to attempt once more to obtain the missing information.



Monday, 30 November, 2009 8:06:29

Dear Wayne,

Thank you very much for your reply - although I was already considering joining your group since the info you sent is available on your website.

Is there any possibility for clarifications of the questions in my original e-mail?

Since it is almost 2010, I thought that if we can sort those points out, I can get myself a pay-as-you-go mobile solely for your text messages.

Kind regards,

XXXXXXX
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Again, nothing but due diligence on a private basis without having to share any relevant information on a forum - and please rest assured, my acquaintance would have kept any real evidence proving that the business was legitimate and confirming any trades that were taken (i.e. by a statement that was independently verified), as confidential.

Since the following reply contained nothing of the sort but instead the same evasive manoeuvres to distract from what looks extremely suspicious business practise, we feel there is value in disclosing it here.




Monday, 30 November, 2009 9:44:48

Hi XXXXXXX

see below

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 3:00 PM, XXXXXXX XXXXXXX<e-mail address removed> wrote:
Dear Mr. Jackson,

I have seen you on forex factory and would like some information about your service and yourself if that is possible.

Having read through some controversial material, I would like (before making the decision to spend any money) to know a little more on your background. Ok

On your blog, you mention that you have been trading for some 15 years on the futures market before starting to trade spot FX in 2006. In one of the threads I came across a post where you mention that you have been trading for 30 years now. I have been trading stocks for 30 years. I have traded futures almost as long, but initially just dabbled in them but became much more focused on futures 15 years ago Which one is it? How old are you? 55yo

What type of returns have you generated on average for the last 3-4 years? Very good, otherwise traders would not be recommending me

Would you manage clients funds upon request? No

Would you be able to provide any statements if necessary? You can see all my live trades on the blog. Statements are open to "photoshopping"

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards. Thank you

X XXXXXXX

In the previous post you can see highlighted in red the answers received.

Come on!

Are these the writings of a 30 year veteran in the business?

Is that what any potential client of the service (newcomer or not) can expect when asked to fork out $700?

Is that in fact what anyone should expect when carrying out his/her due diligence?

When replying to the questions about the last 3-4 years return: 'very good, otherwise trader would not be recommending me' - what kind of answer is that? It does not answer the anything! What traders have recommended him? A few noob's on a forum/blog who themselves have absolutely insufficient knowledge about whether what they are told is reality in respect of all the unsubstantiated claims presented to them.

To the question about managing clients funds, I will come to that at a later stage.

When asked for the provision of statements: again (in spite of being asked by a potential customer in an e-mail conversation away from the public sphere of a forum), no evidence but a mere referral to the claims (which proof nothing) from the blog.

Some people will tell me that for them, this is all proof of a true legitimate business which upon request delivers clear and hard evidence - whether publicly or in private and that there is absolutely no reason to doubt any of the claims made.

My question remains: Why would anyone choose not to reveal such information when it is claimed to exist? Why? What could be the drawback's of actually showing to the public (or more importantly to a private potential client) the proof that all the claims, which are the backbone of the business, are real (and not just some 'life-calls' made and therefore are nothing but a signal service)?

Photo-shop my a**! If want to prove that my statements are real, there is nothing easier than that. To actually refer to the possibility would put me off considering the service in the first place....but not for some - which is a matter of choice, of course.

regards
daytrading

hi
whats your point ? why u are posting this kind of email between u and jacko ?
you want to know if whats jacko offering deserve the 700 dollars , well i can tell u after 2 years with him , it does .
maybe not for a seasoned trader as yourself having more than 10 voucher and a few thread 1 page each !!
but for people seeking to learn forex sure it does .
regards

A few noob's on a forum/blog who themselves have absolutely insufficient knowledge about whether what they are told is reality in respect of all the unsubstantiated claims presented to them.


u consider yourself a veteran trader , u have 7 thread , one you are looking for priod seperator with color , one you are looking for dollars index , one you are looking for mt4 gmt broker , one u are looking for an indicator to plot dots on your chart .
come on man .
the noob is u . the 1 having absolutly insufficient knowledge is defiantly you
go play away .

Please do first try and understand the content of the thread and my posts.

You will also tell me about the 100's of pips he makes every day and week and that your due diligence (should you have carried it out) has shown that everything you have read is more than real.

Secondly, please don't go as far as to include every new trader in your assumption about your personal perception of the value of the service - that would go beyond even your knowledge.

Those e-mails are not mine (and that is irrelevant for the matter), since anyone could (and should) have sent them in order to find out what they are paying for.

Besides, what you can get on the 'free' sections is not debated here - this thread is asking a few simple legitimate questions about a business (to make it clear for you as well as for future posters who might need to ask the same question).

To your second (non-relevant and off topic) post:

I don't consider myself anything. Even if I would, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever who asks the questions - important is that they are being asked.

And what is your point in mentioning threads I have started in which I have asked for someone with programming knowledge to write indicators for me?

You have absolutely no idea why and in what context they were written.

Please tell me that it has something to do with the content and validity of this particular thread. If not, then please refrain in future from posting solely to improve your language skills.

regards
daytrading

Jtrade,

Thank you for your concern, but I am quite content with my personal time management - in fact, the time it takes me to string a few sentences together for a good purpose is minimal.

I am not quite sure your analogy with a witch-hunt is appropriate. Should it turn out that my suspicions are true (aside from the fact that it has already become relatively obvious), should this process be labelled this way?

What seems to be forgotten is this: What I am (and others by now as well) are asking for (proof of real trades in the size claimed being actually taken), either exists (which would be positive for the business and its vendor) or it does not exits (we all know what my personal believes are).

The point whether some of the people involved in the discussion think that it is up to the vendor whether he/she wants to reveal it here (or in private) makes no difference whatsoever.

If this whole issue was contained in a simple thread that has no financial motivation and could be described as purely philanthropic or the person in question was altruistic in nature, then I would not care at all about any of the claims made (despite the fact that I would still consider it morally wrong to make such claims if they were not the honest truth).

The only reason this keeps going on for the length of time it has, is the simple nature of the processes involved in creating a valid argument and collecting evidence. Once those tasks will be completed, it will all end rather quickly.

So many claims have been made on behalf of the business - by the business itself as well as by many members (paying ones or otherwise), but not one single splinter of real evidence has emerged - nothing. And to disprove a hypothetical statement (or a claim) is not the quickest of tasks.

The saying 'my word against his (or the others)' is not good enough - that is why I feel that if we don't see any evidence from the side that made the claims (for whom it would be the easiest thing to do, should it exist), I will try to present evidence on behalf of all who believe that my suspicions are correct.

regards
daytrading

Excellent research DT, a very logical and lucid presentation.

Now if we could just get Jacko and/or his contingent to participate in the discussion in a similarly logical and lucid fashion we may get some answers, if they have any. Going by previous responses both here and via email it looks unlikely but we live in hope!

Why don't we have a little survey here:

How many signals during the week of November 29th until December 4th 2009.

Just simply state how many signals received with entry/exit points and how much profit/loss on the trades.

I am sure there must be willing participants from the supporting crowd who are itching to help prove me wrong.

(and please for the sake of an unbiased result, no conferring between the posters - thank you)

regards
daytrading

P.S. we want to see real results - not just unsubstantiated claims. In the words of the business owner himself: 'no twinkies in this thread'. Post the messages received plus some evidence that the trades have taken place. Maybe this will bring the sender of the SMS signals to post some of his own trade results (with real proof).

Mods... is this thread still "Under Evaluation"??

If so... it might help to post the criteria for the eval process as it sure seems the thing fell off the cliff some time back.

If it's an "overworked and understaffed" issue, then that would explain it...




On the other hand, I am picking up a few new Big Words. :nerd:

I had my friend's son (don't worry, he's much smarter than I am) search FF and compile a XLS on the most 20+ popular trading systems here on the forum. These have been drawn from the Trading Systems, Trading Journals and Commercial areas. By 'popular', I mean the highest number of number of replies and views. A high star rating was also considered, and also the thread's longevity (how many days it's survived). Anyway, as to the criteria used, the judges' decision is final, LOL.

For whatever it's worth, Jacko's House of P&P is the 7th most durable, rates 10th in terms of views per day, is one of only 6 systems to have topped 10,000 replies, and is the 13th highest rated system (although to be fair, only 8 votes have been cast).

For the record, THV by Cobraforex appears to be the most popular system here. Cobra, take a bow.
James16 also scores highly on all fronts. Vic_elc's Ichimoku forever hasn't been around for so long, but scores very well on the replies/views per day.

So is Jacko up there with the best of them? What can be said for a thread that has a longevity of 2.6 years? Does any of this prove anything? Browse through the table, folks, and draw your own conclusions.

I'm sure you meant "they" and not "he"... and that's a tribute to you.

I've always hoped that not only my sons but also their friends would be not only "smarter" than me, but "much smarter" than me.

On reflection, it probably wasn't a very high bar...

Big Nod to you hanover for the original thought and Nods to the kiddo's as well... something Useful has managed to come out of this thread after all.

That was beginning to look like a Tall Order...

ak4x,

Nice of you to chime in.

I tell you what a tall order is (and has been for as long as I am writing in this thread):

For people (in this case the business in question) to substantiate any of the claims that have been flying around ever since it [the business] and its proprietor began to post.

The only matter of interest should be that when a business posts claimed results, that those can be verified. Show me any other business in the financial service industry that attracts clients in the real world, that would survive by not only refusing to come up with real evidence, but also publicly attacking the very people for asking to provide such evidence.

regards
daytrading