Forex courses.... hmmm are they worth it.

Hello,

I am a fairly new trader and I am extremely frustrated. I feel like I have information overload and I just can't seem to decide which methods will work for me in the long term. Can someone help point me in the right direction.
So far I have used Bollinger Bands a little and so far they seem o.k not always accurate, but o.k.
Also I've tried the whole moving average crossover ( with trend of course) and I feel like I am not getting in early enough and stops get hit to often.
I am now looking at learning just plain price action, using simple moving average 30,60 and 100 to determine support/resistance levels and also Fibs 38 and 62%. On top of that I am learning about chart patterns... triangles etc and using a breakout of the pattern plus a pull back.... ( this I am learning from the Hector Trader Course) I like the course but there seems to be so much involved in just finding a trade set up...... there must be a simpler way.

I was talking to a trader who used to work at the dealers desk etc for some of the big banks and of course he was offering a course ($3800) it seems expensive, however he suggested that all i need to know if Support and resistance. Can someone please tell me how I would determine good entry and exact points, how to manage the trades like these ( I get stuck with where I should put my profit targets.) I am thinking that I will give it a 3:1 ratio, just a thought. Even a suggestion on some threads that might talk about this etc... would be greatly appreciated.

If you are starting out I'd read these (2) books:

Trade You Way to Financial Freedom by Van Tharp
Martin Pring on Price Patterns by Martin Pring


Then I'd spend a few months reading through the various threads here at Forex Factory. Some good places to start are:

James16
Jacko's house of pleasure and pain
No Brainer Trades
DIBS Method

Once you've spent a 3-6 months going through the threads and practicing in demo, then worry about taking courses.

Oh, also if you haven't already, go to babypips school. Just do a search.

Ill second LasVahGoose here but also add that you read Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas as i believe 95% of trading success is controlling YOUR emotions.

Good call on Mark Douglas, good read for sure.

I just thought of at least 1 thread you should read for sure, if you haven't already:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=39514

magisana,

If you follow the kind suggestions given by LVG you will be many steps ahead on your jouney to success.

I always feel like my words are being spoken to deaf ears when i suggest these things to new traders (I hope not) but what you have just been given is pure Gold if applied properly.

Invest time in self-education. If you start off with a small budget, better to self-educate than to pay to learn from someone. Reason: most will only teach the basics, and keep their true techniques to themselves. If you absolutely need to and have the budget for it, pay to learn from the real & successful traders, not successful course sellers.

Books:
Trading in the Zone - Mark Douglas
Art of the Trade; Trading Rules that work - Jason Janovsky
Market Wizards - Jack Schwager (not a forex or trading book, but written about successful traders/investors. their secret: they found a niche in an instrument/timeframe which they excel)

FF Threads by real traders:
James16 and Jacko

Thanks for the responses, I will get reading on both the James 16 threads and jacko's thread as these both seem to be highly regarded. Great advice guys.

Hi

I'm new to the use of Forums, although I have been activly trading the Futures and Forex markets for over ten years. Reading through the various posts I would agree with most of whats been said and espeacially the use of self education. The availability of demo accounts gives you the opotunity to try out loads of different techniques and strategies without running any financial risk, as long as you realise that its a different mind game when it comes to trading real money. Education for free is also a great idea, lots of forex firms provide webinars and you can join free seminars at many Forex Expo's.

Any tips you can give me regarding the best way to post replies on the Forum whould be much appreciated.

Knell

Hi

When I first started trading I paid a huge amount of money attending trading seminars. Seminars where people would tell you that their system was the best and the most profitable system out there. As a new trader these wonderus techniques they would willingly impart for a price, seemed to be at the cutting edge, although in reality were just run of the mill lagging indicators or some other price pattern recognition system.

TraderTT is definately right, if a trader has something speciial to offer, he's got to be on the verge of sainthood to give it to you at a seminar. What I have found is that you educate yourself by reading as many books as you can, attending free seminars, webinars (also free) and formulate a trading method that works for you, you then trade it and fine tune it using demo accounts. I personally use an arbitrage method, it is slow, but its profitable and very safe, giving me a good return whilst providing the highest level of protection for my capital. Also by its very nature it doesnt need much supervision which allows me to get on with other things.

hope this helps.

Knell

Hi Knell

Welcome to the FFF.
Could you please give me some more information with regards to your arbitrage method, l like the idea that its safe and profitable.

Thanks in advance

Free seminars and webinars are particularly useful. What i found is that many paid seminars don't give you as much value for money, as the free or cheap ones.

And if you start as a retail trader and try to learn from seasoned professionals from the industry (whether fund managers or brokers), you may end up not learning as much. Learn from someone who has been through the retailer path, i.e. the school of hard knocks and small account sizes, and you would probably find it more applicable to yourself.

A good course is worth every cent. A bad course is not.
Check to see if the course gives you an outline of the trading system. Check to see if the trainer is a real trader. Check to see some of his live trading. Check to see if he is a successful trader over time. Check to see if he is an experienced trader in diifferent fields. Check to see if he is transparent in his trading with existing members. Check to see if existing members are recommending him.
Good luck

A good course is worth every cent. A bad course is not.
Agree with you 100%. Knowledge is king, and a good course will pay for itself quickly, and many times over. A bad course will not only cost you the subscription fee, but money lost in live trades (unless you demo it first). Unfortunately, the vast majority of educators are failed traders who sell worthless material.

Check to see if the course gives you an outline of the trading system.
A person who is a complete newbie probably won't be smart enough to know whether the trading system is profitable, just by looking at the system rules and concepts. Also, the rules are not necessarily everything: some profitable traders apply their experience and discretion, i.e. they know when to break the rules; in some cases, this is where their real 'edge' lies.

Check to see if the trainer is a real trader. Check to see some of his live trading. Check to see if he is a successful trader over time.
Most educators won't post their live results publicly, so this is not possible. And with those that do, many of the results posted are either false, incomplete (many losing trades, or unprofitable accounts, are omitted), doctored using something like photoshop, or demo trades only.

Also, most newbies don't understand the importance of statistical validity. They think that 5 wins out of 5 is impressive, when it could be merely fortuitous. A track record of at least 3 years or 500 trades should be a bare minimum, IMO.

Check to see if he is an experienced trader in diifferent fields.
How can you ever really know? A snake-oil educator will tell everybody that he's successful, for obvious reasons.

Check to see if he is transparent in his trading with existing members.
This is only possible if member e-mail addresses are published, so that the prospective buyer can contact them. It doesn't often happen.

Check to see if existing members are recommending him.
Virtually every forex vendor has an impressive array of testimonials at his website. They are carefully selected, again for the most obvious of reasons. It's all part of the marketing plan.

Good luck
If you do manage to find a successful trader who is also a good educator, then you are indeed fortunate.

hanover sum it up very well.. this guy is just incredibly knowledgeble and eloquent.

This post should be a sticky!

Thanks for the feedback, guys, but I'm just stating what to me seems obvious. During my own journey I've foolishly spent money on worthless products; I'm just trying to save others from doing the same.

Of course prospective buyers should perform as much due diligence as possible. However, it's often very difficult to find unbiased, independent product reviews. And many reviews, whether positive or negative, may be flawed, even if the writers' intentions are genuine. For example, I've seen 5-star reviews from writers after they've only been using a product for a couple of weeks, or across a mere handful of trades. And I've seen negative reviews where it appears likely that the writer has not been following the system, or the instructor, correctly, but would rather blame the product, than himself, for his failure.

An educator's ultimate goal should be to prepare the student in such a way, so that he is eventually able to make his own trading decisions; to stand on his (or her) own two feet. Just like a good trading coach, a mother bird teaches her young ones to fly, by example; but then she pushes them out of the nest, allowing them to develop their own skills, into a world where only the fittest survive.

My very first post at FF was this one. My opinion, for whatever it's worth, hasn't changed much in (almost) 3 years.

If my experience is anything to go by, be prepared to spend at least 3 years of hard work and some money learning how to trade profitably. There is no perfect system and no shortcuts, just many hours of reading, testing different approaches, and (most importantly) studying price behavior. No point in repeating myself further, so I'll just post a link. I would point out that I'm still not consistently profitable, but I believe that I'm finally on the right track. Back in 2007 I gave up, but then returned after a couple of months, necessary to clear my head and make a fresh start. A couple of months ago, I was burnt out and ready to give up again, but that was an emotional decision following a couple of losing weeks, even though I was still ahead overall.

The Mark Douglas book Trading in the Zone frequently gets mentioned in these threads. IMO it's an inspirational rather than educational book. Intellectually, its message is simple: you must apply a genuine edge with consistent discipline. But if you're hoping that the author will teach you a trading methodology, you'll be as disappointed as I was, when I first read it. Discipline alone is not enough.

Apart from James16 and Jacko, IMO some threads worth a look are BRV (at the very least, read the PDF attached to post #1), fti, strat, wmd and possibly eohater. I couldn't make DIBS work profitably for me, but apparently many others have.

Good luck

I am sure surprised that it has taken you three years to learn to trade profitably. I went into profit much quicker than that. I am still learning and still tooling around with different pairs and reading up on different systems but I am using jackos trend trading as a base. I am a member of J16 and I compare everything in J16 against jackos trend trading and if it improves it I keep it, if it doesn't I boot it.

Congrats, well done.

From what I've read, the average time is anything from 2-5 years.

Anyway, I ain't giving up....... well, not yet.


[EDIT] I've just had a look thru the latter pages of Jacko's P&P thread. It looks like you guys trade the longer TFs, while I tend to stay intraday, where there is arguably more noise, so perhaps intraday takes longer to master? (Having said that there are scalpers here like Turveyd, eohater, magnumfreak, FXRichard etc who seem to be very profitable.) I have reasons for stubbornly persevering with shorter TFs: it means that I build up a database of trades more quickly, giving me plenty of practise entering and managing trades, and accelerating the attainment of statistical validity. Everything else being equal, faster turnover potentially means smoother income (less time between sequences of losses), and the opportunity to compound gains so much more quickly.

Anyway, I don't see this at as being a contest. You're obviously happy with Jacko's methodology, and with the profits that you're making. Good on ya, my friend, keep those $$$ rolling in!