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  • #821
  • Nov 22, 2009 2:19am Nov 22, 2009 2:19am
Quoting LasVahGoose
As far as outbursts go, this one is the best

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=753

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that post, it's factual, relevant, no name-calling or infantile insults, accusations, or allegations, no childish jpegs, nothing about nationality or race.......yep, a few here could do with following that example, d'ya know what I mean there Goosey?
  • #822
  • Nov 22, 2009 2:27am Nov 22, 2009 2:27am
Quoting pipmutt
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that post, it's factual, relevant, no name-calling or infantile insults, accusations, or allegations, no childish jpegs, nothing about nationality or race.......yep, a few here could do with following that example, d'ya know what I mean there Goosey?
You didn't like the award I gave you?
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #823
  • Nov 22, 2009 2:35am Nov 22, 2009 2:35am
Quoting LasVahGoose
You didn't like the award I gave you?
No on the contrary I thought it was great, it showed me that not only couldn't you support your views with reason and logic but the best reply you could come up with was a childish jpeg!

It's ok, I understand, it must be difficult trying to defend the indefensible, especially when you lack the wherewithal to even attempt it!

You're a Jacko groupie aren't you? 'nuff said.....
  • #824
  • Nov 22, 2009 2:36am Nov 22, 2009 2:36am
Quoting pipmutt
No I thought it was great, it showed me that not only couldn't you support your views with reason and logic but the best reply you could come up with was a childish jpeg!

It's ok, I understand, it must be difficult trying to defend the indefensible, especially when you lack the wherewithal to even attempt it!
A picture is worth a thousand words my friend. Saves me a lot of typing.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #825
  • Nov 22, 2009 2:46am Nov 22, 2009 2:46am
Quoting LasVahGoose
A picture is worth a thousand words my friend. Saves me a lot of typing.
lol, well why don't you save some more and just give up posting!

I noticed a few people are getting fed up with your nonsense, looks like the start of a trend to me! 'The trend is your friend' as they say.....or in your case not so much.

Anyway enough, ripping you isn't even sporting any more, let's get back to the issues......
  • #826
  • Nov 22, 2009 3:10am Nov 22, 2009 3:10am
Quoting pipmutt
I agree, real time trades posted before the moves would be sufficient, no-one can falsify them, either they made money or they didn't!
Have you seen this thread?
  • #827
  • Nov 22, 2009 3:34am Nov 22, 2009 3:34am
Quoting Zeke
Have you seen this thread?
Hmmm, as I remember there were a lot of questions and controversy over the timing of posts and the non-live management of trades, ie claims after the event.

Anyway he's got a thread here, why not just use that?

It's academic anyway, we all know it's never going to happen.
  • #828
  • Nov 22, 2009 3:58am Nov 22, 2009 3:58am
Quoting pipmutt
Hmmm, as I remember there were a lot of questions and controversy over the timing of posts and the non-live management of trades, ie claims after the event.
Anyway he's got a thread here, why not just use that?
It's academic anyway, we all know it's never going to happen.
If you are really that desperate to see live calls and live trade management, just put down the $700 bucks and join the blog.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #829
  • Nov 22, 2009 4:10am Nov 22, 2009 4:10am
Quoting LasVahGoose
If you are really that desperate to see live calls and live trade management, just put down the $700 bucks and join the blog.
Of course, I mean heaven forbid that in a business where so many scams exist I would want to see with my own eyes some evidence that the person I'm giving money to can actually trade profitably! Whatever next!

Even when it comes to mentoring I would want to know that the person I've chosen as a prospective mentor has what it takes to mentor me, even if it was free!

It's interesting that some sellers are very reluctant to offer a (free) trial, why is that, or is the reason obvious?
  • #830
  • Nov 22, 2009 4:16am Nov 22, 2009 4:16am
Quoting pipmutt
Of course, I mean heaven forbid that in a business where so many scams exist I would want to see with my own eyes some evidence that the person I'm giving money to can actually trade profitably! Whatever next!
Even when it comes to mentoring I would want to know that the person I've chosen as a prospective mentor has what it takes to mentor me, even if it was free!
It's interesting that some sellers are very reluctant to offer a (free) trial, why is that, or is the reason obvious?
It's just a suggestion and it is a simple and easy way to settle the debate for you, I mean you can once and for all really know the truth.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #831
  • Nov 22, 2009 4:28am Nov 22, 2009 4:28am
Quoting LasVahGoose
It's just a suggestion and it is a simple and easy way to settle the debate for you, I mean you can once and for all really know the truth.
No fair enough, it was a suggestion, it's just not one which I personally would take up.

Although it's up to the buyer to perform his own due diligence it's also up to the vendor to demonstrate that what he's selling is worth buying, it's something which most responsible vendors do, especially in this business.

In my experience if a seller is confident in his product then he'll have no problem with allowing prospective purchasers to have a preview. If he's not so confident then he'll want the money up front before letting anyone look inside the box!

I dunno, to me it just seems like common sense.....
  • #832
  • Nov 22, 2009 8:38am Nov 22, 2009 8:38am
Quoting pipmutt
No fair enough, it was a suggestion, it's just not one which I personally would take up.

Although it's up to the buyer to perform his own due diligence it's also up to the vendor to demonstrate that what he's selling is worth buying, it's something which most responsible vendors do, especially in this business.

In my experience if a seller is confident in his product then he'll have no problem with allowing prospective purchasers to have a preview. If he's not so confident then he'll want the money up front before letting anyone look inside...
Very true, however I am not sure that the phrase common sense should be used on this particular thread. There are those that rely on blind faith to guide their way, and leave common sense to the other guy.
  • #833
  • Nov 22, 2009 11:36am Nov 22, 2009 11:36am
Quoting GubyIQ
this isn`t just a futile argument, not when newbies and 700$ are involved.
it is about much more, daytrading and pipmutt have put it in their posts better than I could. (english is not my mother tongue).
I agree that proof of performance is a perfectly reasonable thing to request. In fact, I would always encourage prospective buyers to perform extensive due diligence before buying ANY forex product. But, if I understand correctly, Mr Jackson has already indicated that he will not publish his account statements, or any other kind of hard evidence, here. So by 'futile' I mean that it's pointless for people to keep on insisting that he does.

Let's suppose (hypothetically) that he did post an account statement, showing some very big position sizes, a high percentage of winning trades, and a balance of several million dollars. All of his detractors could simply say that the statement has somehow been faked, or edited in some way, or that only his most profitable run of trades has been posted, or that it's a demo account. So it wouldn't necessarily change anybody's opinion.

At the end of the day, people can either choose to believe what the members of Jacko's group are saying, or not. If they want to pay the $700 to learn more, that's their choice. If they don't, that's perfectly understandable, but then they will only ever be able to speculate.

I see the argument as being 'futile' because nobody in either camp is really in a position to prove anything. Consequently, the thread can never become anything more than an exchange of unsubstantiated opinions and allegations.
  • #834
  • Nov 22, 2009 12:02pm Nov 22, 2009 12:02pm
Quoting hanover
I see the argument as being 'futile' because nobody in either camp is really in a position to prove anything.
It's a bit like trading really, in the absence of evidence one works on the 'balance of probability' premise.

What I find amusing is the fact that no-one, not even one of his followers, will provide one shred of anything to substantiate their claims, it wouldn't take a lot!

I agree that the authenticity of statement screenshots could be questioned/questionable, and to have accounts audited would seem a little too much to ask/expect, but surely one of his many profitable followers who apparently make hundreds and thousands of pips could spend a few moments to post a few live trades before the move, after all they seem to find time to tell us how many pips they've made in the past!

The more reluctant they are, the more suspicious it becomes in my opinion!

Will anything conclusive come out of the thread? No, I doubt it, but if nothing else it may encourage prospective purchasers to carefully consider what they're buying into before handing over their hard-earned cash.

Whether people can become consistently profitable by paying $700 to subscribe to a blog, well that's another issue......
  • #835
  • Nov 22, 2009 12:10pm Nov 22, 2009 12:10pm
Quoting endroute
Very true, however I am not sure that the phrase common sense should be used on this particular thread. There are those that rely on blind faith to guide their way, and leave common sense to the other guy.
Yep, it was a bad choice of words!
  • #836
  • Nov 22, 2009 12:18pm Nov 22, 2009 12:18pm
I think this should now just head into one final zone, theres no joy in unnecessary conflict where the actual core of this discussion is lost amidst a void.

Daytrading has called Jacko out and requested some corroborated proof to support his brand.

Jacko: Should either comply and provide OR politely decline elucidating why.

Honestly i have not read the entire thread, if Jacko has indeed done the above (Declined and expounded why) i sincerely apologize. Bickering back and forth isn't getting us anywhere. I have no prejudice or passion for either side, however i've been through an evolutionary process myself, and personally would never buy a product or service until i have all the required information on that subject. Now those are consumables, if it were Forex id get just more skeptical.

Yes Jacko isn't obligated to manifest results, hence he could even provide audited documentation via PM to those that show interest, but the most accoladed businesses in this world have one similarity, namely Transparency, thats what fuels long term success in any realm.
  • #837
  • Edited Nov 23, 2009 12:24pm Nov 22, 2009 12:52pm | Edited Nov 23, 2009 12:24pm
Quoting pipmutt
It's a bit like trading really, in the absence of evidence one works on the 'balance of probability' premise.

What I find amusing is the fact that no-one, not even one of his followers, will provide one shred of anything to substantiate their claims, it wouldn't take a lot!

I agree that the authenticity of statement screenshots could be questioned/questionable, and to have accounts audited would seem a little too much to ask/expect, but surely one of his many profitable followers who apparently make hundreds and thousands...
I respect your views, and I find myself agreeing with much of what you've said, in principle, throughout this thread: the vast majority of forex vendors unashamedly sell snake oil; skepticism is healthy and all questions should be welcomed by honest educators, IMO.

The posting of one live trade, in itself, wouldn't convince me, though. For the sake of statistical validity, I'd want to see a bare minimum of 500 trades, before I formed any kind of opinion (although it's probably a bit unreasonable to ask for that many, LOL). I've seen an overall unprofitable EA make 12 winning trades in succession, so IMO one winning call doesn't really prove much.

Using your "balance of probability"..... from what I've read elsewhere, my guess is that Mr Jackson is a very profitable trader, but I don't think that his 'turtles' have done anybody any favors with their blatant, unsubstantiated promotion, and their subsequent unwillingness to answer questions (and then calling anybody who dared to ask them a troll) in this thread. As always, the quality (or otherwise) of a discussion speaks for itself.
  • #838
  • Edited 1:54pm Nov 22, 2009 1:28pm | Edited 1:54pm
Quoting hanover
As always, the quality (or otherwise) of a discussion speaks for itself.
The same goes for the forum in general, the fact that this thread has dragged on for so long speaks volumes about the lack of any quality discussion on trading (to the annals of which I am now ironically adding). This is not unique to FF, all public forums eventually converge to the lowest common denominator. As for the contents of the thread, all I have to say is, successful traders don't duke it out in public forums, because successful traders have nothing to prove to themselves or others.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #839
  • Nov 22, 2009 3:27pm Nov 22, 2009 3:27pm
Quoting hanover
As always, the quality (or otherwise) of a discussion speaks for itself.
Good point, which is why I believe that although the argument has been futile the thread itself has in fact been quite useful.

It's been an insight into the caliber of the (average?) satisfied customer and even the man himself, it would be up to the individual to decide whether he thinks it's a professionally run set-up with discerning clientele and whether subscribing would be value for money, offer enough to help his trading, and meet his expectations.
  • #840
  • Nov 22, 2009 3:27pm Nov 22, 2009 3:27pm
Thanks garrye,

that's what we all need, a promising path to follow, for any one if interested.
Very informative thread,
thanks every one.
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