Moving stops to BE | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Broker that has fixed buy-stops/sell-stops, min/no slippage? 5 replies

Fixed stops loss or atr stops ? 0 replies

Mental stops vs hard stops 1 reply

I am looking for EA to put Buy Stops, Buy limits, Sell limits, and Sell Stops. I will 0 replies

Query: Moving Stops to Breakeven 89 replies

Moving stops to BE

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 29, 2009 4:45pm Oct 29, 2009 4:45pm
If you move your stops to BE too quickly, you're trading to NOT LOSE, instead of trading to win.

Just thought I'd pass that on.
  • #2
  • Oct 29, 2009 5:03pm Oct 29, 2009 5:03pm
Very well said, also I have never found a system that would give better results when some kind of "sl to be" is added to the rules.
  • #3
  • Oct 29, 2009 5:06pm Oct 29, 2009 5:06pm
Yes must give the trade some room before moving stop to b/e. B/e in place once the trade has moved further towards my goal, the main point is to let it run to maximize profit with no risk.
  • #4
  • Oct 29, 2009 5:12pm Oct 29, 2009 5:12pm
Once price moves away from my entry I take a portion that will pay for my stop that is positioned behind the last support level, once price makes a new higher/lower level in my direction the remainder is brought to entry and the remaining average is not allowed to go negative.

If that's trading not to lose it's ok by me, the risk is really the only thing I can control.
  • #5
  • Oct 29, 2009 5:13pm Oct 29, 2009 5:13pm
I was just thinking about getting rid of the b/e stop from my trading. I'm noticing i'm just setting myself up to be taken out by random noise. I'm finding that it is more profitable to let trades hit my TP
  • #6
  • Oct 29, 2009 5:19pm Oct 29, 2009 5:19pm
Quoting auxesis
Once price moves away from my entry I take a portion that will pay for my stop that is positioned behind the last support level, once price makes a new higher/lower level in my direction the remainder is brought to entry and the remaining average is not allowed to go negative.

If that's trading not to lose it's ok by me, the risk is really the only thing I can control.
What you are basically doing is trading two systems simultaneously - one that is your original and one (with the same size) that uses 1:1 rr (adjusted to hh/ll you mentioned) with the sl and open that are the same as with your original trades. It's quite easy to see if that helps or not, just simulate/do a manual backtest for just that 1:1 rr system and you'll see what it does to your total results.

(this doesn't cover psychological aspects of course)
  • #7
  • Oct 29, 2009 5:19pm Oct 29, 2009 5:19pm
Quoting mikkom
Very well said, also I have never found a system that would give better results when some kind of "sl to be" is added to the rules.
In my opinion, the only effect of moving SL to BE is in the psychological sense that it gives the trader a secure feeling. It is some kind of stress relief valve, which also makes it deadly for (especially) beginning traders - because as people want to achieve this state of security quickly they move the stop too early, allowing the short term price fluctuations to take them out on an otherwise profitable trade.

Of course there's no rational logic behind it, because to markets as well as one's system, the BE level is not different from any other price level.
The nail that sticks out gets hammered back in
  • #8
  • Oct 29, 2009 5:31pm Oct 29, 2009 5:31pm
you gotta use common sense when using b/e. If price has pierced several significant s/r's on its way to your tp, and it's just hovering near it, you might want to put your b/e stop on. Because chances are if price reversed on you breaking all those s/r again, then it might be a reversal coming.
  • #9
  • Oct 29, 2009 6:06pm Oct 29, 2009 6:06pm
Quoting auxesis
Once price moves away from my entry I take a portion that will pay for my stop that is positioned behind the last support level, once price makes a new higher/lower level in my direction the remainder is brought to entry and the remaining average is not allowed to go negative.

If that's trading not to lose it's ok by me, the risk is really the only thing I can control.
Hi Auxesis!

You are absolutely correct, I think this is definitely one of the best way to "change SL to BE" Assuming you took profit but left the rest with the original SL (to give it some room)...

But do you target profits like target 1, target 2, target 3 also?
I feel that every time I am positioned right target 2 should be add on and not profit taking...
  • #10
  • Oct 29, 2009 6:39pm Oct 29, 2009 6:39pm
Quoting mikkom
What you are basically doing is trading two systems simultaneously - one that is your original and one (with the same size) that uses 1:1 rr (adjusted to hh/ll you mentioned) with the sl and open that are the same as with your original trades. It's quite easy to see if that helps or not, just simulate/do a manual backtest for just that 1:1 rr system and you'll see what it does to your total results.

(this doesn't cover psychological aspects of course)
If your trading a set r:r entry/target setup, assuming your edge is profitable, its statistically advantageous to let your full position run to the intended target, imho however somewhere in the mix there's a point where you have to protect yourself.

The psychological aspect is correct, once the position is covered, the bulk is targeted, but a small portion is left to run or trailed, as I can never call the end.
  • #11
  • Oct 29, 2009 6:48pm Oct 29, 2009 6:48pm
Quoting Noloqy
because to markets as well as one's system, the BE level is not different from any other price level.
This is IMHO one of the most important aspects new traders don't get - that's why there are these sl to be / martingale / other methods where the traders are trading their own trade/account instead of market everywhere.

I just want to clarify: I don't mean it's a bad thing to move sl to be if it's because market says it's a good level for your stop.
  • #12
  • Oct 29, 2009 6:58pm Oct 29, 2009 6:58pm
Quoting Larseg
Hi Auxesis!

You are absolutely correct, I think this is definitely one of the best way to "change SL to BE" Assuming you took profit but left the rest with the original SL (to give it some room)...

But do you target profits like target 1, target 2, target 3 also?
I feel that every time I am positioned right target 2 should be add on and not profit taking...
Larseg,

I'm a little unorthodox compared to the norm in trading, so to say I define a static target for each trade wouldn't describe it very well. I like to trade the intraday legs, and will scale in and out on the individual waves of the move as it unfolds. I do have an overall area and time for the intraday move to complete, but I let the current price action dictate. Depending on where I am in the overall picture delegates my risk. I have no absolute rules for entry or exit. I do look for the current wave to equal the prior, think measured move, channeling ect... when price exceeds or falls short of that mark speaks volumes.

fwiw,

regards
  • #13
  • Oct 29, 2009 7:56pm Oct 29, 2009 7:56pm
Quoting auxesis
Larseg,

I'm a little unorthodox compared to the norm in trading, so to say I define a static target for each trade wouldn't describe it very well....
I admire your skills and I wish I could trade like that, unfortunately I am to emotionally evolved and have to take pure Set & forget signals.

But in my trading setups I have some specific times I can come back and take a small profit out instead of changing the SL if the price is right.
  • #14
  • Oct 29, 2009 8:08pm Oct 29, 2009 8:08pm
Quoting Larseg
Hi Auxesis!

You are absolutely correct, I think this is definitely one of the best way to "change SL to BE" Assuming you took profit but left the rest with the original SL (to give it some room)...

But do you target profits like target 1, target 2, target 3 also?
I feel that every time I am positioned right target 2 should be add on and not profit taking...
BINGO!
  • #15
  • Oct 29, 2009 8:08pm Oct 29, 2009 8:08pm
Quoting Larseg
I admire your skills and I wish I could trade like that, unfortunately I am to emotionally evolved and have to take pure Set & forget signals.

But in my trading setups I have some specific times I can come back and take a small profit out instead of changing the SL if the price is right.
Everyone is hardwired a little different, finding your optimal trading level is key, that helps keep the emotions in check, stepping outside your comfort zone can cause a flood of emotional stimulus which is normally bad for trading. It does not matter what size your account is, if you feel undue stress trading 1 lot, then drop down to mini's or micro's and slowly work up increasing your risk appetite.

Find that MM, size level, that works profitably for you and then analyze your weaknesses and work to slowly correct them, like that frog in the boiling pot adage.
  • #16
  • Oct 29, 2009 8:17pm Oct 29, 2009 8:17pm
Quoting MackS10
Yes must give the trade some room before moving stop to b/e. B/e in place once the trade has moved further towards my goal, the main point is to let it run to maximize profit with no risk.
I agree with this 100%. What about trailing the PA once you have moved to BE . .. Do you? or do you just let it ride in the direction of interest differential positive?
  • #17
  • Oct 29, 2009 8:40pm Oct 29, 2009 8:40pm
Quoting andante9
I agree with this 100%. What about trailing the PA once you have moved to BE . .. Do you? or do you just let it ride in the direction of interest differential positive?
You can def. trail the trade, however i keep it simple and use timed exits.
  • #18
  • Oct 29, 2009 8:45pm Oct 29, 2009 8:45pm
Quoting MackS10
You can def. trail the trade, however i keep it as simple and use timed exits.
Ok fine, I'll bite. Timed exits, thats great, but based on what? Are all trades given the exact same time to be profitable? Like one hour, one day, one whatever? I'm not saying you are wrong (or right for that matter) just trying to understand a concept you have put forth. My question comes without malice - I'm just trying to understand another point of view. . .
  • #19
  • Oct 29, 2009 8:55pm Oct 29, 2009 8:55pm
Quoting andante9
Ok fine, I'll bite. Timed exits, thats great, but based on what? Are all trades given the exact same time to be profitable? Like one hour, one day, one whatever? I'm not saying you are wrong (or right for that matter) just trying to understand a concept you have put forth. My question comes without malice - I'm just trying to understand another point of view. . .
Well it really depends on how you like trading and/or the system you are trading. For example when I used to work only with 1H frame i would close my trades at my initial target, but at times I was cutting on profit potential as the trade would go further in my direction. I decided to look into my system further and figured that at times it was best to let the trade run till the end of the day protected by b/e point.
  • #20
  • Oct 29, 2009 9:00pm Oct 29, 2009 9:00pm
Fine. But tell me this, are you not still limiting your trade potential by using a timed stop? ie. since you decided not to use a profit target like a given pip amount to increase profit potential what is the difference if you use an end of day stop (the price could still keep on going in your direction!).
0 traders viewing now