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4H Box Breakout

  • #4,941
  • Oct 15, 2009 12:54am Oct 15, 2009 12:54am
Quoting Bobcat2
Yen, If having used all your jokes is the reason you are leaving the thread, then I hope to provide a solution. I hereby bequeath all my lame category unused jokes for your use on this thread. There are so many that it should keep you going for several more years. I guarantee they are primo lame quality jokes. For quality assurance I intoduced them to your burros to get their reaction, first. Remember when you thought the burros had been exposed to the flu pandemic? Sorry, but it was really my lame jokes pandemic. All the best, Your Wisconsin friend...
Bobcat . . . I'm so glad you told me about the lame jokes . . . I got this alert on the computer earlier tonight and couldn't figure it out until now . . .
Attached Image


All the best to you as well, my friend. I'm sure we'll bump into each other here on FF again. Speaking of bumping, Catalina mentioned she has a special fondness for Wisconsin cheeseheads . . .
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #4,942
  • Oct 15, 2009 1:05am Oct 15, 2009 1:05am
OK . . . the farewell tour is just about to end.

I wanted to do something special for everyone here on the thread before I checked out, so I went out and found Ace for you . . . it appears he used his Forex winnings to open a hardware store.

Is it just me, or does Ace look a LOT like John Madden?

Good luck and good trading to all!
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Click to Enlarge Name: 1992-ace-guy.jpg Size: 66 KB
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #4,943
  • Oct 15, 2009 9:07pm Oct 15, 2009 9:07pm
Wow, I just spend +3 days (+60 hrs) reading this post from A to Z and have to admit that I was really dazzled with this system. I even thought at one moment, wow, we have a winner here. I even traded some positions with this system and managed +400 pips on tuesday and yesterday.

First of all, I'd like to gratefully thank all of those who made this thread an interesting source of knowledge, humor, and friendship. Thanks Ace, Roland Raygun, dRoland, Pharoah, Yen, Shiko, PipsAddict and all of those whose names I can't remind right now. You guys altogether make an infinite source of knowledge.

This is my first post in this forum because I got so excited reading through this thread (I had already read other systems in this forums but found them to complicated or too time demanding) that I even subscribed to this forum, hence my 1st. post. After reading, I feel like I know you guys from the beginning. Got to admit that your jokes (Yen) made more than once my day worthwhile.

I feel sorry that this thread is being left for dead; I had high expectations as I read the 330 pages here only to find out that at the end everyone is taking their own paths. I urge you to reconsider or at least keep posting together in order not to end with all of the expertise and opinions that can be summed altogether.

Count me in as a new friend in a new community that would like to keep learning, have a few laughs, and discuss anything from trading systems to which is the best beer in Mexico to Yen's burro's (you have got to go to Tijuana and see the donkey and the bride show) LOL.

Anyways, I'd like to keep in touch, follow your lead and make my way from a simple Padawan to a Master Jedi in FX. I can't post any PM's since I'm a new member so I really ask for all of you mentioned above not to leave me left over since you guys were responsible (in a good way) for me to enroll in this forum and look up to you, so don't let me down.

Enough said, so, thanks again and forward to hear from all of you.


Greetings from Cuernavaca, Mexico
VIVA MEXICO CABRONES!!!

Carlos
  • #4,944
  • Oct 16, 2009 4:03am Oct 16, 2009 4:03am
Quoting chano12
Wow, I just spend +3 days (+60 hrs) reading this post from A to Z and have to admit that I was really dazzled with this system. I even thought at one moment, wow, we have a winner here. I even traded some positions with this system and managed +400 pips on tuesday and yesterday.

First of all, I'd like to gratefully thank all of those who made this thread an interesting source of knowledge, humor, and friendship. Thanks Ace, Roland Raygun, dRoland, Pharoah, Yen, Shiko, PipsAddict and all of those whose names I can't remind right now....

Dead cat bounced
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  • #4,945
  • Edited 5:21pm Oct 16, 2009 10:18am | Edited 5:21pm
Quoting chano12
Wow, I just spend +3 days (+60 hrs) reading this post from A to Z and have to admit that I was really dazzled with this system. I even thought at one moment, wow, we have a winner here. I even traded some positions with this system and managed +400 pips on tuesday and yesterday.

First of all, I'd like to gratefully thank all of those who made this thread an interesting source of knowledge, humor, and friendship. Thanks Ace, Roland Raygun, dRoland, Pharoah, Yen, Shiko, PipsAddict and all of those whose names I can't remind right now....
Timing is everything.
  • #4,946
  • Oct 17, 2009 1:08pm Oct 17, 2009 1:08pm
I am sure the system is not dead yet. Some modifications could be done to the system making it work even in the most tough years. backtesting in progress.....
  • #4,947
  • Oct 17, 2009 1:21pm Oct 17, 2009 1:21pm
Quoting dannywmk
I am sure the system is not dead yet. Some modifications could be done to the system making it work even in the most tough years. backtesting in progress.....
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...84#post2997584

I'm gonna run a forward test with danno's variations as detailed above. Haven't started yet but feel free to follow here - http://www.myfxbook.com/members/aran...ariations/3327

If someone could make an EA with his money management that'd be awesome
  • #4,948
  • Oct 17, 2009 1:22pm Oct 17, 2009 1:22pm
Quoting dannywmk
I am sure the system is not dead yet. Some modifications could be done to the system making it work even in the most tough years. backtesting in progress.....
History of this system (Backtested vigorously)

2006 = account death
2007 = account death
2008 = profits show for the first real time
2009 = vast improvement in profits
Pre 2006 = account death

There have been many modifications so far on this system, Yonnie's 100 pip box no matter what is one of them, my smartstop system is another, I think it was yen who had suggested closing half the position at the TP1 mark as it gets reached at least 60% of the time, the addition of BoxTrail is proving to be a vital tool for this system. There has already been many many modifications that have not only improved the innitial R:R, but have also reduced drawdown, and improved %win rate over a longer period of time than the original system.

So far, we've turned 2006 and 2007 into profitable years (not as much as we would like to see, but that's WIP), while still harnessing the full potential of 2008 and 2009.
  • #4,949
  • Oct 17, 2009 1:49pm Oct 17, 2009 1:49pm
The way I took my trades was in consideration of locking profits as soon as I can, so instead of putting 2 pending trades (one for long and one for short), I put 8 pending orders (4 and 4), for example:

Trade 1 - enter at Buy, SL at other side of box, TP at TP1
Trade 2 - enter at TP1, SL at Buy entry, TP at TP2
Trade 3 - enter at TP2, SL at TP1, TP at TP3
Trade 4 - enter at TP3, SL at TP2, TP at TP4

And so on, same works for sell orders. What this does, instead of waiting for TP2 to be hit in order to move SL to BE (as stated by Ace) with this slight mod we can take small profits earlier into the trade. Why? What if trade already hit TP1, your SL is still at other side of the box, then moves 50% into TP2 but it retraces all the way back until your first SL is hit; result = you end up with a loss. This taken into consideration that you are not able to follow the screen or following to rules of "set & forget".

Since I work in my own business I can have open the MT4 and monitor constantly the trades. So if my TP1 is hit, I close the trade and already banked some profits, and increased my margin slightly; but if in the path from TP1 to TP2 the trade retraces, I can stop the trade early or let it hit SL which will mean either I will break even (no profit, no loss) or at least bank half the profits if I manually close tha trade.

As stated, this is just a slight mod taking into consideration that you can monitor the trade constantly. No offense intended for the creator or other contributors nor a mean to change the core of the system.

Maybe RR can code an EA that will close a trade at first TP, then open a new one for TP at the next level.

Greetings all!!
  • #4,950
  • Oct 17, 2009 2:39pm Oct 17, 2009 2:39pm
no offence here...

most of the modifications seen so far concern only one of the possible dimensions only...

where to place entry, 10 pips buffer, 20 pips buffer, 50 pips from the close of the 1st bar...

where to place stop loss, 100% of the bar, 50%, 30%, MA trailing the stop loss...

some would suggest delaying the bar to the 3rd one, but why? why not the 2nd one or the 4th one...

now i guess i understand why Ace's new modification would have only one trade per week at most....

Quoting Pharoah
History of this system (Backtested vigorously)

2006 = account death
2007 = account death
2008 = profits show for the first real time
2009 = vast improvement in profits
Pre 2006 = account death

There have been many modifications so far on this system, Yonnie's 100 pip box no matter what is one of them, my smartstop system is another, I think it was yen who had suggested closing half the position at the TP1 mark as it gets reached at least 60% of the time, the addition of BoxTrail is proving to be a vital tool for this system. There has already...
  • #4,951
  • Oct 17, 2009 2:40pm Oct 17, 2009 2:40pm
Quoting chano12
The way I took my trades was in consideration of locking profits as soon as I can, so instead of putting 2 pending trades (one for long and one for short), I put 8 pending orders (4 and 4), for example:

Trade 1 - enter at Buy, SL at other side of box, TP at TP1
Trade 2 - enter at TP1, SL at Buy entry, TP at TP2
Trade 3 - enter at TP2, SL at TP1, TP at TP3
Trade 4 - enter at TP3, SL at TP2, TP at TP4

And so on, same works for sell orders. What this does, instead of waiting for TP2 to be hit in order to move SL to BE (as stated by Ace) with this...

If I'm not mistaken, price never had to hit TP2 for SL to be moved to BE, it's actually strongly encouraged to adjust SL to BE at TP1. Check out 4H Banker Buster, I think that will be right up your ally, as it's essentially exactly what your describing there without having to pay broker spread every TP point.
  • #4,952
  • Oct 17, 2009 2:46pm Oct 17, 2009 2:46pm
Quoting dannywmk
no offence here...

most of the modifications seen so far concern only one of the possible dimensions only...

where to place entry, 10 pips buffer, 20 pips buffer, 50 pips from the close of the 1st bar...

where to place stop loss, 100% of the bar, 50%, 30%, MA trialing the stop loss...

some would suggest delaying the bar to the 3rd one, but why? why not the 4th one, the 5th one...

now i guess i understand why Ace's new modification would have only one trade per week at most....
No offence taken.

But I think you misunderstand the purpose of My particular modification, look at 4H Banker Buster http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=199622 and you'll learn that my particular modifications have turned this typical breakout system into a S&R finding Breakout system.

I guess to understand what I mean by many improvements already you would need to visit the 4H Banker Buster thread. You'll see in there that the system has evolved from your typical breakout system. And is currently undergoing tests and continual development to further improve R:R and further improve Win% rate.


I understand this is a KISS system... but lets face it... just how many KISS systems have a life longer than 6 months?
  • #4,953
  • Oct 17, 2009 9:28pm Oct 17, 2009 9:28pm
Quoting chano12
The way I took my trades was in consideration of locking profits as soon as I can, so instead of putting 2 pending trades (one for long and one for short), I put 8 pending orders (4 and 4), for example:
Trade 1 - enter at Buy, SL at other side of box, TP at TP1
Trade 2 - enter at TP1, SL at Buy entry, TP at TP2
Trade 3 - enter at TP2, SL at TP1, TP at TP3
Trade 4 - enter at TP3, SL at TP2, TP at TP4
I think Pharoah already hinted at this, but you`re better off in my opinion to move your SL up 1TP each time you hit a higher TP.
In that way you dont have to open a new position every time and pay the spread again.

So price up to TP1, move your SL to BE; price to TP2 change SL to TP1; price at TP3 move your SL to TP2 etc. etc.
In that way you save yourself a lot of pips.

And how high is your box? If it is Aces` original box then your stop loss can be a lot lower as already pointed out by quite a lot of people.
  • #4,954
  • Oct 17, 2009 9:32pm Oct 17, 2009 9:32pm
Quoting dannywmk
I am sure the system is not dead yet. Some modifications could be done to the system making it work even in the most tough years. backtesting in progress.....
what modifications are you backtesting at the moment?
  • #4,955
  • Oct 17, 2009 9:41pm Oct 17, 2009 9:41pm
Quoting dannywmk
no offence here...
most of the modifications seen so far concern only one of the possible dimensions only...where to place entry, 10 pips buffer, 20 pips buffer, 50 pips from the close of the 1st bar...where to place stop loss, 100% of the bar, 50%, 30%, MA trailing the stop loss...some would suggest delaying the bar to the 3rd one, but why? why not the 2nd one or the 4th one...now i guess i understand why Ace's new modification would have only one trade per week at most....
I dont exactly understand what you`re trying to say with this post?

I dont have xls and could you in short tell me what your findings were for the years post 2002 and what your parameters were for your test?

thank you for your time.
  • #4,956
  • Oct 18, 2009 12:14pm Oct 18, 2009 12:14pm
Quoting Pharoah
History of this system (Backtested vigorously)

2006 = account death
2007 = account death
2008 = profits show for the first real time
2009 = vast improvement in profits
Pre 2006 = account death

There have been many modifications so far on this system, Yonnie's 100 pip box no matter what is one of them, my smartstop system is another, I think it was yen who had suggested closing half the position at the TP1 mark as it gets reached at least 60% of the time, the addition of BoxTrail is proving to be a vital tool for this system. There has already...
Not sure where you got those backtest results from but I'm looking at danno96's manual backtest and it shows:

Ace's original strategy

2009 = 5028 pips
2008 = 4135 pips
2007 = 4215 pips
2006 = 1496 pips
2005 = 49 pips
2003 = 3468 pips
2002 = -519 pips

With danno96's variations

2009 = 6729 pips
2008 = 8006 pips
2007 = 7737 pips
2006 = 1944 pips
2005 = 752 pips
2003 = 4497 pips
2002 = 562 pips

  • #4,957
  • Oct 18, 2009 1:05pm Oct 18, 2009 1:05pm
Quoting lolpie
Not sure where you got those backtest results from but I'm looking at danno96's manual backtest and it shows:

Ace's original strategy

2009 = 5028 pips
2008 = 4135 pips
2007 = 4215 pips
2006 = 1496 pips
2005 = 49 pips
2003 = 3468 pips
2002 = -519 pips

With danno96's variations

2009 = 6729 pips
2008 = 8006 pips
2007 = 7737 pips
2006 = 1944 pips
2005 = 752 pips
2003 = 4497 pips
2002 = 562 pips


Hello,

I followed the whole thread but still confused about the many variations of Ace's rules.

Could you tell me in which post Yonnie's variation was mentionned ?

Thanks,
Billyjoe
  • #4,958
  • Oct 18, 2009 1:35pm Oct 18, 2009 1:35pm
Quoting Pharoah
If I'm not mistaken, price never had to hit TP2 for SL to be moved to BE, it's actually strongly encouraged to adjust SL to BE at TP1. Check out 4H Banker Buster, I think that will be right up your ally, as it's essentially exactly what your describing there without having to pay broker spread every TP point.

Thanks Pharoah! I am already following your thread! I'll be testing today but I'm still re-reading it to fully understand the MA's you use.
  • #4,959
  • Oct 18, 2009 2:13pm Oct 18, 2009 2:13pm
Quoting Billyjoe
Hello,

I followed the whole thread but still confused about the many variations of Ace's rules.

Could you tell me in which post Yonnie's variation was mentionned ?

Thanks,
Billyjoe
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...84#post2997584

He details it in the Excel file

Basically:

1) Move SL to BE + 20 pips once 1X TP is reached

2) Move SL to 1X when price reaches 2X

3) Move SL to 3X when price reaches 4X and let profit run to weekend

4) Do not trade when box size is > than 200

  • #4,960
  • Oct 18, 2009 2:17pm Oct 18, 2009 2:17pm
Hello guys,

I am still wondering why nobody came with an idea to increase the R:R as Ace mentionned for his new system, eveyone was claiming for this new system but nobody came with ideas (even dumb ideas).

Why ?


Billyjoe
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