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so i've lost half my capital

  • #61
  • Oct 13, 2009 10:52am Oct 13, 2009 10:52am
Quoting Forex4pty
Lets see if this helps, try to Demo with the same amount of money you are going live....
Exactly Forex4pty, you can start off with $500 and still make a income, granted it won't be primary income, but it's extra pocket money where once there may not have been any.

I think 50 pips is a reasonable goal on a per day basis, just don't overload your position, and you should be good.

The reason you trade demo all good, then go live and lose is this.

When you execute a trade, you are mentally unprepared to handle the loss, while you "deal with it" after it happens, you might not be able to deal with it, AS it's happening, which could cause you to close the position, then immediately look for another entry to repair the damage done to both your account, and your self worth (in forex, you could still be a father and have tones of self worth as a father, but lose all self worth for trading forex) which causes uninformed trade decisions, which ultimately ends is going broke.

Forex is great fun, but if you feel your stress level goes much higher (I know mine did when I started live). Sit back, take a break, seek within yourself if your ready to handle that kind of stress, or at least... figure out if you can supress it, because stress leads to fear, and fear leads to loss.

The fact your asking all of these questions is the first sign that you are serious about it, Will you make your break on this $500 deposit? No, I don't think so... BUT... think about what you've learned, about forex, AND about yourself, that was a $500 lesson that IMO was WELL worth it.
  • #62
  • Oct 13, 2009 11:33am Oct 13, 2009 11:33am
Pharoah this has been the best explanation anyone has given me so far.
And im willing to bet its absolutely true.

I opened yersteday a demo account with MBT trading, using initial deposit of $10.000, trading minilots, and will use it only for 15 min trading.

At this point im thinking that the small capital ($400), together with a tight stoploss, a blurry exit strategy, overtrading, and well, inexperience were the primary reasons that i lost all that money.

Im sitting here, trading demo on 15min, and I am calm as hell, taking smalll profits. Why on earth can;t i do the same with a my micro live ? Especially since the amount to be lost/gained is so small ? I do not know, but i am certain it has to do with my psychology.

Trading daily and weekly charts is how i started 10 months ago, and i was doing fine. Nothing spectacular, but on the profitable side.

So, another important lesson learned, don't test new timeframes, strategies and methods on my micro live.

At this point im not willing to trade with $80 on a 15min, so i will try trading only one position per time on a daily chart, and see if i can make some money out of the account i almost blew away.

If not, i will keep trading demo, untill i can be profitable on a daily basis for at least 3 months.

Of course I could had read all this info here on the forum (there are a few articles on this for us newbees), but sadly im the kind of person who learns the hard way.

Also not that I am attempting to put the blame about my loss on anyone else, but why is it that MBT, Alpari and other brokers have less noise on their 5 & 15 minute charts than FXCM? Slippage and spreads are terrible with FXCM, and trading for a target of 20 pips per swing is hard with a 5 pip slippage and a 3 pip spread, but there are spikes, stoploss hunts that do not appear on charts of other brokers. I am really puzzled about this.

Next live account i will open will be a micro account were i will trade daily and weekly charts ONLY.

Thanx for the input boys and girls, you have been really helpfull
  • #63
  • Oct 13, 2009 11:46am Oct 13, 2009 11:46am
Quoting GreedyPIPs
hehehe
i think losing 2/3 of my capital was enough of a kick in the aR$e....
but yeah, u guys r right.
IT seems like whenever im thinking what ive done wrong after all positions are closed, everything seems crystal clear.

However when theres money at stake, i cant think straight.

Is something wrong with me ?
Nope, nothing wrong with you at all. It's a matter of loss, everyone feels that way when they see a negative floating balance, it's human nature to feel things when something is at stake. The trick is to overcome these emotions, and not let them control your decisions. All of my first trades started off in the negative, and I cursed the gods both times up and down until the trade went in my favor, this only happened once, the second time I nearly lost my mind...

Trust me, there's absolutely nothing wrong with you. What you feel is letting you know that you are in fact human, it will definitely help you realize your threshold and will ultimately lead you to placing much safer positions. Trial and error my friend... it's the human way.
  • #64
  • Oct 13, 2009 11:52am Oct 13, 2009 11:52am
Quoting GreedyPIPs
So, another important lesson learned, don't test new timeframes, strategies and methods on my micro live.
And to be honest... this is a VERY good lesson to learn. By testing new systems (I'm assuming systems not made by you) on a live account, you're essentially putting your finances in the hands of someone you have no idea about, who may have less experience that you do. Always test strats or new timeframes on a demo.

And the reason you don't feel anything when trading on a demo account is this.

If you blow that demo account... you still have all your money, if you blow a live account, you're out that money.

Also, do your research on Brokers.. dozens upon dozens of them will feed you a bunch of crap just to get you to join with them... only when they have your money do their colors really start to show.
  • #65
  • Oct 13, 2009 10:52pm Oct 13, 2009 10:52pm
"95% trader lose money" maybe misleading. Trend trader would lose money during a range maket, vice versa. I guess (no proof) same money is keep going in circle. Day trading is a business management job, not a technical job. Technical analysis is a technical job. Most new trader got caught up in technical analysis and can not handle business management.
Have a nice day! I hope everything is going well for you!
  • #66
  • Oct 14, 2009 7:50am Oct 14, 2009 7:50am
Hey Titan trader, what do you mean by business management job ?
  • #67
  • Oct 14, 2009 9:48am Oct 14, 2009 9:48am
He's talking out of his bottom.
PM Me If You Need Help!
  • #68
  • Edited 10:19pm Oct 14, 2009 10:17pm | Edited 10:19pm
"business management" included money management, stress management, find the market that fit your personal style, etc. Everybody knows these issues are important but it is a completely different mentality. Many day trading books only have 1 chapter on money management, trader psychology, and other chapters are about fancy trading system. These books are similar to books that teach you to paint , but does not say much about running a painting business. GreedyPIPs mention earlier that "All i want is 50 pips a day. Small steady profits." Do you think running a successful long term business is an easy and steady pay job? Not just day trading business, any kind of business?
Have a nice day! I hope everything is going well for you!
  • #69
  • Oct 14, 2009 10:30pm Oct 14, 2009 10:30pm
Quoting Titan Trader
"business management" included money management, stress management, find the market that fit your personal style, etc. Everybody knows these issues are important but it is a completely different mentality. Many day trading books only have 1 chapter on money management, trader psychology, and other chapters are about fancy trading system. These books are similar to books that teach you to paint , but does not say much about running a painting business. GreedyPIPs mention earlier that "All i want is 50 pips a day. Small steady profits." Do you...
I agree that business management plays a role in the success of a trader... but Greedy's problem is DURING the fact, not after it.

No matter what your business management is, if you have floating P/L your "business mind" shouldn't have any effect on your trading decision.

Business management is accounting, looking at the data, after it's been done not while it's happening. Do you think CEO's know what's going on in their little franchise stores across the country? No, they don't have 2 clues... not until it's already been done.

I think you have a misunderstanding of "Business management" and how it plays a role in Forex Trading.
  • #70
  • Oct 14, 2009 11:10pm Oct 14, 2009 11:10pm
1 person day trading is a small business. That person should know everything going on inside his head. Different industry has different "business management". I guess what I mean to say is that GreedyPIPs need to have a business mentality. I am assuming if brokers advertise day trading as running your own business then less people will sign up to trade because most people don't want to run their own business. Most people want a steady pay and less stress. Running your own business is just too much for some people.
Have a nice day! I hope everything is going well for you!
  • #71
  • Oct 14, 2009 11:13pm Oct 14, 2009 11:13pm
Quoting Titan Trader
1 person day trading is a small business. That person should know everything going on inside his head. Different industry has different "business management". I guess what I mean to say is that GreedyPIPs need to have a business mentality. I am assuming if brokers advertise day trading as running your own business then less people will sign up to trade because most people don't want to run their own business. Most people want a steady pay and less stress. Running your own business is just too much for some people.

People who want a steady pay and less stress should not be viewing trading as the answer. Trading can be very stressful and the rewards are not steady like a pay packet. But the life style is second to none.
  • #72
  • Oct 14, 2009 11:17pm Oct 14, 2009 11:17pm
Quoting Titan Trader
1 person day trading is a small business. That person should know everything going on inside his head. Different industry has different "business management". I guess what I mean to say is that GreedyPIPs need to have a business mentality. I am assuming if brokers advertise day trading as running your own business then less people will sign up to trade because most people don't want to run their own business. Most people want a steady pay and less stress. Running your own business is just too much for some people.
And this is why I agree, because after the fact, calculating your income, drawing up your taxes etc, this is all stuff that you need you're business mentality for, because you get ALL of your profits less transfer fee, it's up to you to manage that money after the fact.

But the underlying problem greedy is having has nothing to do with AFTER he received his profits, it's accumulating the profits, this is where your trader mentality is required, and your business mind left at the door.

Unrealized money (money not yet withdrawn) cannot be taken into consideration when doing taxes, drawing up profit charts on a business level. This is done on a trading level.

I hope you understand what I mean.
  • #73
  • Oct 14, 2009 11:20pm Oct 14, 2009 11:20pm
hi if you want to survive give up the intraday charts find something that is trending and follow in a daily chart.
The people making makin the most from short term trading are the brokers.
there are several trend following threads on this site pick a good one which uses sensible stops and stick to its rules
another tip look at which pairs are paying interest for going long and only trade them and also only trade them long that way the broker will pay you for holding the position.
Pairs the pay you interest tend to trend upward as the big players buy them for cary trades.
Hope this helps bet of luck
  • #74
  • Edited 11:59pm Oct 14, 2009 11:57pm | Edited 11:59pm
base on everything GreedyPIPs say so far, I agree with Stumpy1 that GreedyPIPs should give up the intraday charts. Successful business management is more than just accounting paperwork. Successful business management can find a suitable maket niche. I don't think intraday charts is the right market niche for GreedyPIPs.
Have a nice day! I hope everything is going well for you!
  • #75
  • Oct 15, 2009 6:56am Oct 15, 2009 6:56am
Well i've given up intraday, something i should had done weeks ago...

I'll keep trying in a demo account, and i will give a demo shot at other products such as indices and futures hoping to find something less volatile and with better entry points.

As far as forex goes, I will stick to daily charts, i was doing fine with them before, and I hope i will keep doing fine.

Funnily enough, i trade carry trades not only for their roll over intrerests, but because they have steady and healthy swings.

AUDCAD had 0.15 pips roll buy and all of a sudden FXCM changed it to 0.05 pips. same with AUDUSD. Watsup with that ?
  • #76
  • Oct 16, 2009 5:20pm Oct 16, 2009 5:20pm
Quoting Xaron
There are no official numbers. But if I look at both live trading contests at FxStreet.com in 2007 and 2009, 95% looks real.

In 2007 only 2 of 60 contestants ended positive: ~3%
In 2009 only 3 of 43 contestants ended positive: ~7%
These trading contests attract all the newbies and part-time traders that want to risk insane trading levels to get the highest return. No professional trader would enter a contest like these because it is like going to work and doing their job again. They KNOW that insane MM will result in blow-ups. It is only a question of how long it takes to blow up the account. I have been reading all of this thread for two weeks. Its a long thread. But he knows how to trade. His results are impressive And his AntiHedge system is genius. It is clever.
The Forum here is full of surprises and good things.
  • #77
  • Oct 17, 2009 9:25am Oct 17, 2009 9:25am
read this
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=34249
Have a nice day! I hope everything is going well for you!
  • #78
  • Oct 17, 2009 11:00am Oct 17, 2009 11:00am
Quoting GreedyPIPs
Well i've given up intraday, something i should had done weeks ago...
You may consider editing your Contacts to allow PMs....
  • #79
  • Oct 17, 2009 5:05pm Oct 17, 2009 5:05pm
Quoting GreedyPIPs
Well i've given up intraday, something i should had done weeks ago...

?
I work in import/exports for a large multi-national company, hedging for protection from loss. I have always believed that the big profits that we make from our long term positions is made from the short term losses of all the daytraders/scalpers. My bosses who are hardened and experienced traders are very scathing of scalpers. They say that scalping is a losers game. Every one of them tells me that unless you are trading from Daily and even weeklys charts, then you have to be a genius to beat the long term traders. Short term traders get frightened and react to minor losses and dump their positions. All the short term losses add up to our profits
  • #80
  • Oct 17, 2009 7:32pm Oct 17, 2009 7:32pm
Quoting zarraman
I have always believed that the big profits that we make from our long term positions is made from the short term losses of all the daytraders/scalpers. My bosses who are hardened and experienced traders are very scathing of scalpers. They say that scalping is a losers game. Every one of them tells me that unless you are trading from Daily and even weeklys charts, then you have to be a genius to beat the long term traders. Short term traders get frightened and react to minor losses and dump their positions. All the short term losses...
The bolded ones....

You have anything more to support that supposition, or just your bosses says?

Anyway, does anybody here in FF even dream to try to beat any long term traders?

Me, my dream is simple. To be able to withdraw US$1,000 every month, which will afford me more than a descent living here in home town. Double that and I'll be rich from my countrymen point-of-view. Triple it and I'll live like king.

So let be generous and say I dream to be able to withdraw US$5,000 a month. Is it closer to your bosses big profit? Personally, I think not. But who gives a damn? Even after a part of my dream came true, I still can't think what the heck am I gonna do with over US$5,000 a month. Pity, huh?

Maybe...

But I got no boss to answer to beside myself. And I can sleep well at nights cos I see no need to beat anyone in this game but myself---which I already did, thank you. And I'm as happy as a lark cos now I have time to pursue my other dream, which is out of this forum context.
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