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Where to start, I'm overwhelmed..

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 29, 2009 8:12am Sep 29, 2009 8:12am
Hi all,

First a quick introduction. I'm a 22 year-old from the Netherlands. I currently work at Rabobank 4 days a week while I am completing my Bachelor in Management and Economics.

I'm a rather successful poker players but I realise that poker is not here to stay, and thats why I'm here. Due to my background in poker I think trading is a logical first step. In my opinion successful traders and pokerplayers share the same personality traits.

After doing some research about the Forex market I am very interested but also a bit confused. There's so much information available that it is a bit overwhelming.

My idea is to trade in the evening (that would be 7pm till 9:30pm London time). This is the end of the Wall street session. Does this sound like a reasonable idea?

Also, I think getting a mentor would be of tremendous value, especially at the beginning of my trading career. I've had some mentors/coaches in poker and that has always been very useful. Does anyone have a suggestion here?

Also, what is the best way to start trading. I have to start from scratch but I'm willing to put in the hours necessary.

Hope to get some valueable replies, thanks in advance!
  • #2
  • Sep 29, 2009 2:54pm Sep 29, 2009 2:54pm
That's funny how people ask for advices and then do whatever they do anyway. Sorry, no offense. Here is my 2c. Seriously, if you are really successful in poker and also like it then don't change anything. I know people who make living by poker, you could be one of them too. The fact you are familiar with science of probabilities unfortunately doesn't mean you going to be a good trader, especially in forex unless you desperately want to be a forex trader. Currencies movements are affected by thousands of factors like news, big banks interventions, etc. Even if you learn technical analysis really good it won't work every time. I would strongly suggest to look into stock/options market instead. I've wasted a few years in forex by myself and I regret it.

Quoting Noisse
Hi all,

First a quick introduction. I'm a 22 year-old from the Netherlands. I currently work at Rabobank 4 days a week while I am completing my Bachelor in Management and Economics.

I'm a rather successful poker players but I realise that poker is not here to stay, and thats why I'm here. Due to my background in poker I think trading is a logical first step. In my opinion successful traders and pokerplayers share the same personality traits.

After doing some research about the Forex market I am very interested but also a bit confused. There's...
  • #3
  • Oct 1, 2009 1:27am Oct 1, 2009 1:27am
Hi Noisse. Welcome to Forex Factory. Answers in blue.

1. First a quick introduction. I'm a 22 year-old from the Netherlands. I currently work at Rabobank 4 days a week while I am completing my Bachelor in Management and Economics. That's the way to make money! Forget Forex for now - concentrate on your studies - you picked a tough subject.

2. I'm a rather successful poker players but I realise that poker is not here to stay, and thats why I'm here. Due to my background in poker I think trading is a logical first step. In my opinion successful traders and pokerplayers share the same personality traits. True, if you are talking about money management.

3. After doing some research about the Forex market I am very interested but also a bit confused. There's so much information available that it is a bit overwhelming. There is a lot to learn. See 1. above.

4. My idea is to trade in the evening (that would be 7pm till 9:30pm London time). This is the end of the Wall street session. Does this sound like a reasonable idea? Possibly the worst time you could choose. Why? because this is when the markets slow to a stall. Low volumes can cause unpredictable price movements.

5. Also, I think getting a mentor would be of tremendous value, especially at the beginning of my trading career. I've had some mentors/coaches in poker and that has always been very useful. Does anyone have a suggestion here? Look at learning the basics first. Read the J16 thread if you must.

6. Also, what is the best way to start trading. I have to start from scratch but I'm willing to put in the hours necessary. Daily charts, on a demo. See 1. above

7. Hope to get some valueable replies, thanks in advance! You're welcome!

(By the way. See 1. above)
Gone to a better place
  • #4
  • Oct 2, 2009 1:20am Oct 2, 2009 1:20am
Hi Noisse

Read my very similar first post a while ago, I'm also a poker player trying to get into trading and have similar time constraints. Maybe I can tell you what I've learned so far... PM or email me.
  • #5
  • Oct 2, 2009 1:35am Oct 2, 2009 1:35am
where to start?

start trading the daily

read all this

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=39892
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #6
  • Oct 2, 2009 8:00am Oct 2, 2009 8:00am
Thanks for the replies so far guys, been useful. As for the comment made by smikester, I am ofcourse focusing on my studies. However I'm nearing graduation so it's time to start looking beyond that point.

@pasopvirpot: I'll shoot you a PM, there should be some similarities between us.

@silverheat: Already started with some of the articles on that page, noticed it between the Sticky threads. Very useful so far and I'm gonna keep on reading. Thanks!
  • #7
  • Oct 2, 2009 9:14am Oct 2, 2009 9:14am
I mention this site to most who are starting out because it can offer the basics and then build from there.

If you up for some reading then J16s thread is great, Strats thread is very valuable for the traders looking to focus on daily and weekly charts, which in my opinion would be best for you. Your trading time is as mentioned, starting when the world is asleep (asia never sleeps) so getting a focus for the higher TFs, taking setups based on these would probably help. Plus the background in poker would show that you have a certain level for tolerance and longevity, in that you can be patient and wait for your moment to strike.

It is not a short journey and few reach the summit, but being 22 (I was 23 when I started and 4 years later I am starting to get there) gives you plenty of time.

Wish you best in your studies and future

Razor
  • #8
  • Oct 2, 2009 5:24pm Oct 2, 2009 5:24pm
Quoting Noisse

My idea is to trade in the evening (that would be 7pm till 9:30pm London time). This is the end of the Wall street session. Does this sound like a reasonable idea?
It's popularly estimated that one must watch and actively engage oneself with a live-tick chart for at least 1000 hours before getting a 'gut feel' for trading, even if you trade with regular chart indicators.

1000 hours of live-tick chartwatching / 2.5 = 400 days; 400 / 250 days a year Wall Street stock market is open (source) = 18 months

It's your guess as to how to be actively engaged. Maybe extra technical study and some kind of psychological preparation are necessary, which can cost several hours a day, counselling to ask why the heck you're doing this, or 'sacrifice' cash to see how emotional trading real money is.
Usually being correctly in tune with how a chart moves arrives to a person much earlier than knowing how to deal with or take advantage of this internal information. Be prepared for many years' work.
  • #9
  • Oct 7, 2009 9:40pm Oct 7, 2009 9:40pm
Just a thought, You may want to pick a pair that has activity when you want to trade. Try this one pair and learn its rythem and actions. You will gain a lot of information adn confidence to learn a sytem method and mindset to trade by.

TraderEdge
Tom Newman (Trade a Wave)
  • #10
  • Oct 7, 2009 10:59pm Oct 7, 2009 10:59pm
Quoting Noisse
Hi all,

First a quick introduction. I'm a 22 year-old from the Netherlands. I currently work at Rabobank 4 days a week while I am completing my Bachelor in Management and Economics.

I'm a rather successful poker players but I realise that poker is not here to stay, and thats why I'm here. Due to my background in poker I think trading is a logical first step. In my opinion successful traders and pokerplayers share the same personality traits.

After doing some research about the Forex market I am very interested but also a bit confused. There's...
forex is like school.. u need to learn do your homework know the environment and execute well planned trades with proper money management..

and really do not risk say more than 2% of your $ at any time?

you can read on basic forex articles at my blog..

www.thegeekknows.com

hope u do well
  • #11
  • Oct 8, 2009 1:51am Oct 8, 2009 1:51am
How much do you do with poker?

5,000 dollars per month or more?

If the answer is yes, then keep doing it.

One thing I agree with you is that in Forex you need to have mentors too, otherwise you will never find success in the short term and you will eventually lose A LOT OF MONEY. You need someone you trust to tell you the "secrets" of forex.

95% of people lose money in forex.

Only 5% make money. And those are PROs and Brains with PhDs in economy and years of experience. So what makes you think that all of a sudden you will join this biz and make money? sounds too easy? Exactly.
Why do we fall? "So we can learn to pick ourselves up."
  • #12
  • Oct 8, 2009 2:30am Oct 8, 2009 2:30am
Quoting ForexDude
How much do you do with poker?

5,000 dollars per month or more?

If the answer is yes, then keep doing it.

One thing I agree with you is that in Forex you need to have mentors too, otherwise you will never find success in the short term and you will eventually lose A LOT OF MONEY. You need someone you trust to tell you the "secrets" of forex.

95% of people lose money in forex.

Only 5% make money. And those are PROs and Brains with PhDs in economy and years of experience. So what makes you think that all of a sudden you will join...
You've got the definition of mentors all wrong...there's nothing out there which the 5% have and you don't. Your success has a lot to do with embracing this...the markets hide nothing from you, these ppl hide nothing from you...it's you hiding behind such futile claims in the face of inconsistency. think...


Quote
And those are PROs and Brains with PhDs in economy and years of experience.

You're Absolutely right with the experience and absolutely wrong on the phd part. trading doesn't want you to be an economist, being one would help but it's not the common thing in your group of 5%. Being able to apply common sense could be one...

g.
I believe . . .
  • #13
  • Edited 11:23am Oct 8, 2009 9:46am | Edited 11:23am
My recommendation is to not take advice from anyone unless they are trading a live account with full sized lots and making money consistantly (ask to see their results). Otherwise you risk being "taught" trading methods and psychology that may not yet been proven to work.....and you will be using your time and money to make that determination. Just keep in mind if an unsuccessful person teaches you everything they know, the best you can typically hope for is to be as unsuccessful as they are.

Trading IS like poker in that it is a learned skill that takes some time to develop. But it is not gambling if done correctly. You need a proven strategy that fits your style of trading (long term vs. short term). You need experience gained from looking at the charts (see how the different time frames interact wih each other on a give currency pair). You need confidence that comes from trading a demo account as your learning grows (if you can make money on a demo, you can make money on a live account).

Be prepared to put in some time in front of the computer. If your studies are preventing that now, that's fine, spend the time you do have learning some basics (most platforms now have training materials on them). Then when you do have time, you will have an idea what you are looking at on the charts.

I wish you the best.
  • #14
  • Edited 12:47pm Oct 8, 2009 12:07pm | Edited 12:47pm
Quoting moneymaker2
Just keep in mind if an unsuccessful person teaches you everthing they know, the best you can typically hope for is to be as unsuccessful as they are.
A successful person may teach how to put it all together, where you want to go with it and the different variables you want to bother with, sure. What you put together, no, due to personality differences and technique equivalencies one can learn from anywhere. Learning, someone once told me, is rather being a matter of bridging the gap between the information received and the application to your need. Information, including general advice, learned can not only be copied, also it can be modified, included, divided, ignored, combined, replaced or improved upon.

Also, in demo, you have to get past its stumbling blocks, including that you may get overconfident about winning or blase about losing. These are useful in learning what information works, though.
  • #15
  • Oct 8, 2009 1:04pm Oct 8, 2009 1:04pm
HA-Pattern,

I agree. I used that quote because I used to use it as an instructor (I did add the term 'unsuccessful' this time) with the point being that somone struggling with a concept is not the best person to help you with the same concept. I do think that if you want to speed up the learning curve in currency trading, you need to find someone already succesful at it. That is certainly not to say that people trading demos or micro/mini accounts do not have something valuable to offer, just that I feel you will get to your destination faster if you can learn from those already where you want to be. I was speaking in time savings only and truely did not mean any disrespect to anyone.

As for a demo, I agree that it is necessary for honing technical ability, but it MUST be traded as though it is real money. Most demo accounts give you the ability to put the amount you want in there. I recommend no more than $5000, and when it gets to around $15K, reduce it back down. That helps to see what you trade in actual results, rather than able to trade 20-30 lots, getting lucky and making a lot of money quickly... I think that gives a false sense of security. But you have to treat your demo as real, or like you said, it means nothing emotionally. Some people I know just can't do that, so for them putting some real money in a micro/mini account helped them understand the sting of a bad trade.

Like you, I believe that something that is learned is only the foundation of knowledge. If necessary, it can be modified or improved upon, but I think any changes to it needs to occur only when you fully understand the initial concept and strategy/method. I have seen a lot of people try to modify a method they have just begun to learn and wind up with something that doesn't work as good as the original, so they get discouraged and move from one method to another. Frustration and impatience kill a lot of traders. People need to remember that trading is a skill and like any other skilled craft, takes time and effort and practice, so you have to be willing to put in the work AFTER you have learned the basics.

Good trading...
  • #16
  • Oct 8, 2009 2:57pm Oct 8, 2009 2:57pm
Quoting moneymaker2
My recommendation is to not take advice from anyone unless they are trading a live account with full sized lots and making money consistantly (ask to see their results). Otherwise you risk being "taught" trading methods and psychology that may not yet been proven to work.....

I wish you the best.

I agree. I have NEVER EVER SEEN someone trading live consistently and doing a profit consistently in Forex in all this time.

All these "gurus" I see in forums selling their online tutorials or classes, happened to be regular guys with a minimum income and living in a rented 1 room flat in the suburbs. They actually live off selling their classes to rookies, not from trading forex.

So everyone take care. Yeah a lot of people will quote these kind of message and say things like: "I'm sorry you don't make money in this, but I tell the newbies to keep trying because I make a lot of money with forex!!" A.K.A. "click on the banners a join that b.r.o.k.e.r now".

These are my two cents, take them or prepare yourself to lose your money.
Why do we fall? "So we can learn to pick ourselves up."
  • #17
  • Oct 11, 2009 11:11pm Oct 11, 2009 11:11pm
u can start here.
  • #18
  • Last Post: Oct 12, 2009 12:27am Oct 12, 2009 12:27am
Quoting ForexDude
I agree. I have NEVER EVER SEEN someone trading live consistently and doing a profit consistently in Forex in all this time.

.
You are wrong matey. Jacko has been a profitable trader consistently in forex for 3 or 4 years. I see all his live trades and can also see them all the way back to 2005.
Have a look here. http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...4&postcount=85
There is no shite in his blog. He is a deadset winner trader.
I am profitable too. Consistently.
Another trader fxtrader29 has also checked his record
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