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4H Banker Buster

  • #61
  • Oct 6, 2009 9:29pm Oct 6, 2009 9:29pm
Quoting buffalopip
Hi all , and thanks for the back test results ... looks very promising indeed... Just wondering ... at what point would it be fesiable to start to...
Well, the EA uses available equity and not account for lot size calculations. I also believe the way I have it is the % you're risking, is the total % you can lose on that trade, and nothing more (This is assuming the trade triggers, then stops out at default SL) because of this, it allows for some trades that have tight stoplosses to accumulate HUGE profits because of the lot size, yet if the SL is like, 150 pips away, the lot size is much smaller. This reduces the risk involved which overall increases the profits gained. This can be seen in the backtesting results from jan 2007-now when compared to it's parent system (My version of Ace's system with stoploss), or it's grandparent system (Ace's system).

2007-2008 unfortunately would not have been enough for my Smartstop alone to to turn profitable. While in 2008 my original variation of Ace's system broke even, which was a good thing. Since then, as you can see, we've been turning one losing year after another, into winners.
  • #62
  • Oct 7, 2009 12:56am Oct 7, 2009 12:56am
Quoting Pharoah
Hi all, just an update on the EA for this system.

We have turned 2008 into a profitable year (was unprofitable with the original breakout system in which this was derived from).

Here's 2009

Start: January 5, 2009
End: October 9, 2009
Deposit: $10,000
Net Profit: $12,946.14
Profit Factor: 3.31
Total Trades: 55
Profit Trades %: 69.09%
Loss Trades %: 30.91%
Maximal Draw Down: 10.82%

Here's 2008

Start: December 31, 2007
End: Januray 2, 2009
Deposit: $10,000
Net Profit: $5,606.44
Profit Factor: 1.85
Total Trades: 61
Profit Trades %: 54.10%
Loss...
I would also like to note that these results were derived based on risking around 3.3% of account equity per trade.
Addicted and proud of it!
  • #63
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:00am Oct 7, 2009 1:00am
Quoting PiPsAddict
I would also like to note that these results were derived based on risking around 3.3% of account equity per trade.
Nice work, PipsAddict. With all the suggested changes, modifications, and adaptations to the original system, though, I've gotten a little confused on what your ground rules were for the back testing.

In other words, what's been changed from the original system besides adding the Smart Stop? Thanks.
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #64
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:17am Oct 7, 2009 1:17am
Quoting yen44x
Nice work, PipsAddict. With all the suggested changes, modifications, and adaptations to the original system, though, I've gotten a little confused on what your ground rules were for the back testing.

In other words, what's been changed from the original system besides adding the Smart Stop? Thanks.
Besides the SmartStop, it uses a 70 pip breakout box from 1st 4H bar close of the week (35 above, 35 under). Trading once per week, using MM rules that differ from your standard rules, these money management rules consider default SL position, and assigns lot sizes according to that in conjunction with your equity, instead of just %equity. This can allow for HUGE profits if the stoploss is rather tight, and minimizes large losses if the default SL is very far.

Other than that we have not employed the Box Move technique as there is only placing 1 trade per week. We are still tweaking the settings to determine the most profitable, and so far 70 pip box size seems to fit just right, we've tested between 40-75 so far.

We are being VERY thourough in this, optemizing 1 setting at a time. Once we have the best working settings for a 70 pip box size, we will work on other box sizes to attempt to create profit where there is currently loss in hopes to "get us in that trade early" while still minimizing our losses like we are currently accomplishing.
  • #65
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:23am Oct 7, 2009 1:23am
Quoting Pharoah
Besides the SmartStop, it uses a 70 pip breakout box from 1st 4H bar close of the week (35 above, 35 under). Trading once per week, using MM rules that differ from your standard rules, these money management rules consider default SL position, and assigns lot sizes according to that in conjunction with your equity, instead of just %equity. This can allow for HUGE profits if the stoploss is rather tight, and minimizes large losses if the default SL is very far.
Thanks Pharoah . . . nicely explained.

One more question regarding using the close of the candle. I know Yonnie suggested it, but then later mentioned he wasn't using it, which caused me to wonder about its validity. Is the use of the 4H candle close proving to be the optimal choice, or have other alternatives been tested yet?
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #66
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:30am Oct 7, 2009 1:30am
Quoting yen44x
Thanks Pharoah . . . nicely explained.

One more question regarding using the close of the candle. I know Yonnie suggested it, but then later mentioned he wasn't using it, which caused me to wonder about its validity. Is the use of the 4H candle close proving to be the optimal choice, or have other alternatives been tested yet?
Other alternatives have not been considered just yet. So far this is based on the theory that it doesn't matter how or when you enter the trade, it's all about managing a trade once your in it (which in all honesty, all breakout systems are, because there is NO technical indication what so ever) It's all about finding that sweet spot.
  • #67
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:32am Oct 7, 2009 1:32am
Quoting Pharoah
Besides the SmartStop, it uses a 70 pip breakout box from 1st 4H bar close of the week (35 above, 35 under). Trading once per week, using MM rules that differ from your standard rules, these money management rules consider default SL position, and assigns lot sizes according to that in conjunction with your equity, instead of just %equity. This can allow for HUGE profits if the stoploss is rather tight, and minimizes large losses if the default SL is very far.

Other than that we have not employed the Box Move technique as there is only placing...
I would like to correct you on one thing Pharoah... the box size is actually 140 pips (70 above close/70 below close). The figure entered into the parameters only accounts for one side and then doubles it when it draws the box.
Addicted and proud of it!
  • #68
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:33am Oct 7, 2009 1:33am
Quoting Pharoah
Other alternatives have not been considered just yet. So far this is based on the theory that it doesn't matter how or when you enter the trade, it's all about managing a trade once your in it (which in all honesty, all breakout systems are, because there is NO technical indication what so ever) It's all about finding that sweet spot.
Thanks . . . if nothing else tonight, I'm managing to keep you hopping between the two threads. Hurry on over to the other . . . there's already a new question waiting.
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #69
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:34am Oct 7, 2009 1:34am
Quoting PiPsAddict
I would like to correct you on one thing Pharoah... the box size is actually 140 pips (70 above close/70 below close). The figure entered into the parameters only accounts for one side and then doubles it when it draws the box.
That makes sense . . . 35 seemed really tight. I like the idea of 70 much better right off the bat.
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #70
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:38am Oct 7, 2009 1:38am
Quoting Pharoah
Other alternatives have not been considered just yet. So far this is based on the theory that it doesn't matter how or when you enter the trade, it's all about managing a trade once your in it (which in all honesty, all breakout systems are, because there is NO technical indication what so ever) It's all about finding that sweet spot.
Now get back to this thread, Pharoah . . . I've got another question.

If it doesn't really matter when you enter a trade, have you thought about back testing based on the open of the 4H candle (much like the First Strike Plus system suggests)?

I mean, if it really doesn't matter, why wait 4 hours when you could already be in on the start of a trend that much earlier?
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #71
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:41am Oct 7, 2009 1:41am
Quoting yen44x
That makes sense . . . 35 seemed really tight. I like the idea of 70 much better right off the bat.
Being that we are dealing with "the beast" in this pair, it is fair that she needs a little more breathing room than most other pairs. In back testing I was seeing that setting the box higher/lower than 140 pips was yielding lower net profits, less win %, and a higher maximal draw down.

I'll keep at it to see if I can create a better control.
Addicted and proud of it!
  • #72
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:43am Oct 7, 2009 1:43am
Quoting PiPsAddict
Being that we are dealing with "the beast" in this pair, it is fair that she needs a little more breathing room than most other pairs. In back testing I was seeing that setting the box higher/lower than 140 pips was yielding lower net profits, less win %, and a higher maximal draw down. I'll keep at it to see if I can create a better control.
Kudos, PipsAddict . . . nice job so far.
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #73
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:46am Oct 7, 2009 1:46am
Quoting yen44x
Thanks . . . if nothing else tonight, I'm managing to keep you hopping between the two threads. Hurry on over to the other . . . there's already a new question waiting.
It's thread tag, I'll get you... u wait lol
  • #74
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:54am Oct 7, 2009 1:54am
Quoting Pharoah
Besides the SmartStop, it uses a 70 pip breakout box from 1st 4H bar close of the week
One more question (I know, I know . . . it's about the third time I've promised that) . . . did the back testing include moving the SL to BE after the first lot hits TP1?

What made me think about it is the current Short trade. If the SL was moved to BE after the first lot closed at TP1, you would have been stopped out of the trade shortly after. On the other hand, if you're relying exclusively on the Smart Stop, you're well into a profitable trade.

So, I was curious how you handled it in the back testing.
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #75
  • Oct 7, 2009 1:59am Oct 7, 2009 1:59am
Quoting yen44x
One more question (I know, I know . . . it's about the third time I've promised that) . . . did the back testing include moving the SL to BE after the first lot hits TP1?

What made me think about it is the current Short trade. If the SL was moved to BE after the first lot closed at TP1, you would have been stopped out of the trade shortly after. On the other hand, if you're relying exclusively on the Smart Stop, you're well into a profitable trade.

So, I was curious how you handled it in the back testing.
No, the SL was not moved to BE. It allows for the use of SmartStop and/or a predefined TS. Pharoah is in the process of trying to find out from the programmer whether or not they work in conjunction or if we have the choice of using one or the other. What ever it's doing is working so far.... so at least we're on the right path...
Addicted and proud of it!
  • #76
  • Oct 7, 2009 2:00am Oct 7, 2009 2:00am
Quoting yen44x
One more question (I know, I know . . . it's about the third time I've promised that) . . . did the back testing include moving the SL to BE after the first lot hits TP1?

What made me think about it is the current Short trade. If the SL was moved to BE after the first lot closed at TP1, you would have been stopped out of the trade shortly after. On the other hand, if you're relying exclusively on the Smart Stop, you're well into a profitable trade.

So, I was curious how you handled it in the back testing.
All trades are handled by the SmartStop system, while it can be in use. If the MA was below the price when trade was entered, a trailing stop of I believe 75 pips was applied, and set to trail the MA once it crossed it.
  • #77
  • Oct 7, 2009 2:00am Oct 7, 2009 2:00am
Quoting PiPsAddict
No, the SL was not moved to BE. It allows for the use of SmartStop and/or a predefined TS. Pharoah is in the process of trying to find out from the programmer whether or not they work in conjunction or if we have the choice of using one or the other. What ever it's doing is working so far.... so at least we're on the right path...
Very good . . . thanks, my friend.
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #78
  • Oct 7, 2009 2:01am Oct 7, 2009 2:01am
Quoting PiPsAddict
No, the SL was not moved to BE. It allows for the use of SmartStop and/or a predefined TS. Pharoah is in the process of trying to find out from the programmer whether or not they work in conjunction or if we have the choice of using one or the other. What ever it's doing is working so far.... so at least we're on the right path...
Exactly
  • #79
  • Oct 7, 2009 2:01am Oct 7, 2009 2:01am
Quoting Pharoah
All trades are handled by the SmartStop system, while it can be in use. If the MA was below the price when trade was entered, a trailing stop of I believe 75 pips was applied, and set to trail the MA once it crossed it.
And thanks to you as well!
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
  • #80
  • Oct 7, 2009 2:02am Oct 7, 2009 2:02am
BTW, Pharoah, thanks for supplying me with a list of questions to ask on your thread . . . I agree, it's a great way to get people to take a look at the system.

But, I hope no one seriously thinks I would ask questions this stupid. (Oh, one more question . . . when can I expect my check in the mail?)
Greetings from Guanajuato, Mexico
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