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How long to be profitable?

  • Poll

  • How long to be profitable
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  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 9:48pm Oct 1, 2009 9:20pm | Edited 9:48pm
I am hosting a poll about how many months/years of equivalent full-time work you have spent on trading in order to be profitable consistently. Free feel to vote.
  • #2
  • Oct 5, 2009 7:45am Oct 5, 2009 7:45am
Many thanks for those who have responded to this Poll. I am not one of the responded person, since I am not yet consistently profitable.

I have been spent for about 1 year on trading, and not yet consistently profitable, but I know I am close.

When I first began, I expected it would take months to achieve consistency. I am surprised most people here took 3 years to achieve.

Anyone can explain what the time have been spent for?
  • #3
  • Oct 5, 2009 8:15am Oct 5, 2009 8:15am
Quoting kk007
Many thanks for those who have responded to this Poll. I am not one of the responded person, since I am not yet consistently profitable.

I have been spent for about 1 year on trading, and not yet consistently profitable, but I know I am close.

When I first began, I expected it would take months to achieve consistency. I am surprised most people here took 3 years to achieve.

Anyone can explain what the time have been spent for?
Nothing in particular, the thing is.. when everyday you do the same thing, for years.. day after day week after week month after month year after year.. at a certain point you got it! (profitable), it's true for trading like for any other thing on earth, do it everyday for a big time and you will be successful on it, everything!
  • #4
  • Oct 5, 2009 8:16am Oct 5, 2009 8:16am
Thanks for the poll. I have two years and yet have not get at there. Letīs keep working.
  • #5
  • Oct 5, 2009 9:36am Oct 5, 2009 9:36am
Quoting tunera
Nothing in particular, the thing is.. when everyday you do the same thing, for years.. day after day week after week month after month year after year.. at a certain point you got it! (profitable), it's true for trading like for any other thing on earth, do it everyday for a big time and you will be successful on it, everything!
Tunera,

Thank you very much for your explanation. It seems that you have explained nothing, but in fact you've explained everything. I will remember your view and see it myself.

cheers,

kk007
  • #6
  • Oct 5, 2009 9:40am Oct 5, 2009 9:40am
I think this poll has probably explained why 95% private traders failed. I believe that 95% people would not expect and may not be willing to spend such amount of time to be consistently profitable.
  • #7
  • Oct 5, 2009 9:41am Oct 5, 2009 9:41am
Quoting trader_ash
Thanks for the poll. I have two years and yet have not get at there. Letīs keep working.
Cheers! Trader_ash. Let's get there soon.
  • #8
  • Oct 5, 2009 11:33am Oct 5, 2009 11:33am
Quoting kk007
I think this poll has probably explained why 95% private traders failed. I believe that 95% people would not expect and may not be willing to spend such amount of time to be consistently profitable.
Jup thats one of the reasons.
  • #9
  • Oct 5, 2009 2:03pm Oct 5, 2009 2:03pm
I'm in my third year and I'm finally profitable. I've had a "tilt" this year and my trading style & my view of the markets completely changed.

If I had this statistic from the start I guess I'd have changed the way I did some things...

That being said, why can't I vote ? I registered only for that and I can't do it.
  • #10
  • Oct 5, 2009 3:49pm Oct 5, 2009 3:49pm
Quoting Intensity
I'm in my third year and I'm finally profitable. I've had a "tilt" this year and my trading style & my view of the markets completely changed.

If I had this statistic from the start I guess I'd have changed the way I did some things...

That being said, why can't I vote ? I registered only for that and I can't do it.
I believe that you don't get to vote unless you have a certain amount of posts.
  • #11
  • Oct 5, 2009 4:06pm Oct 5, 2009 4:06pm
Quoting kk007
When I first began, I expected it would take months to achieve consistency. I am surprised most people here took 3 years to achieve.
If someone had told me this I doubt I would have kept on going. Once you're hooked, though, some of us don't like being beaten by something that LOOKS so simple.
Quote
Anyone can explain what the time have been spent for?
That's easy - you go through continuous 6-month cycles of trying this and that and moving on until it all starts to make some sense after a while.

Then you find what works for you and then you have to find all the small subtleties in trading that make the difference between good trades that don't make much money and the same type of trades that give you as much as the market will offer on that trade.

Easy-peasy? I don't think so, but the longer you look at charts the less difficult it becomes.
  • #12
  • Oct 5, 2009 4:13pm Oct 5, 2009 4:13pm
The amount of time it take for you to be consistent depends on the trading style you choose...

And also:
How disciplined you are
How patient
and so on...


I spent almost one year figuring out what style I wanted to trade...
then another year too learn that I have to stick too the rules...

As I tell my friends, it's like you reach a point where you know how to loose weight but you still can't do it..

The line between success and failure is very small in forex...
  • #13
  • Oct 5, 2009 6:10pm Oct 5, 2009 6:10pm
one option is missing for the voting :NEVER

unless you can trade with huge account and after making few good trades, make some reasonable money and get out of the game for ever
  • #14
  • Oct 5, 2009 6:11pm Oct 5, 2009 6:11pm
lol why you want to escape from market, it give you much money if you don't use it like a roulette!
  • #15
  • Oct 6, 2009 3:20am Oct 6, 2009 3:20am
Thanks PeterFM,

I think you've summarised the whole process very well. I got in by misunderstanding and now I am hooked, and giving up is not a choice for me.

cheers,

kk007


Quoting PeterFM
If someone had told me this I doubt I would have kept on going. Once you're hooked, though, some of us don't like being beaten by something that LOOKS so simple.That's easy - you go through continuous 6-month cycles of trying this and that and moving on until it all starts to make some sense after a while.

Then you find what works for you and then you have to find all the small subtleties in trading that make the difference between good trades that don't make much money and the same type of trades that give you as much as the market will...
  • #16
  • Oct 6, 2009 4:31am Oct 6, 2009 4:31am
I think the question is flawed from the beginning.

The answers given might reflect how long it took the voters (members) to make some money - but does that really constitute 'being profitable' in terms of reality?

The question, if asked correctly, should be two-fold: how long to be profitable - and profitable for how long?

I am sure the answers then would vary a great deal - for example, some might say it took 2 years, but they have only been profitable since for 6 month or something similar.

When the time to become profitable (and the money lost during that time might play a role as well) is longer than the time that has passed since becoming profitable, then most are not really profitable.

It's like an investment risk-to-reward ratio: if someone receives for example 100K as trading capital (whether their own cash put aside, or given by an investor - does not really matter too much here for the sake of the discussion), then starts trading (as a novice, again for arguments sake) and losing 20% of that capital during the first two years of trading. Then he/she becomes profitable and wins at the same rate (example again) on average that he/she lost initially, it will take another two years approximately before breaking even. In that case, the person might consider themselves profitable for 2 years, and that it took 2 years to become profitable. That is wrong. Effectively, the person would only have the right to claim profitability to some extend after the fourth year (2 years losing, 2 years making up the losses) AND still continuing to make money, i.e. increasing the original stake of 100K.

In my view, only after another 2 years (year 6) of consistently making money, one should perhaps be inclined to claim profitability.

Some money being made for some time is not enough information here - it has to be in the right context.

Many of the great traders have a track record that shows many years of profitability - and usually, the amount of time it took them to get there can vary a great deal - but the money they made always outperformed their initial losses by a high factor.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #17
  • Oct 6, 2009 4:53am Oct 6, 2009 4:53am
Quoting daytrading
I think the question is flawed from the beginning.
The question was ...how many months/years of equivalent full-time work you have spent on trading in order to be profitable consistently... rather than how long it took and are you remaining profitable.

Whilst I am aware of your greater experience in trading and I understand the points you made, I still think the question is valid. Most newbies have no concept of the time and effort required to reach even a basic level of competency in trading.

Whether someone can retain that level and build an account over time is a valid question to ask; for me it took more than a year to recover from my first complete account loss and I'm now back to where I was 1.5 years ago. During that time I've adapted my approach so I can state quite firmly that I have been consistently profitable for a period longer than it took to take my first live account from the bottom to the top and back down again.

My live account is now at a higher level than it was before I blew it. It's taken time but I don't see me blowing another one again. Lessons learned with real money are rarely forgotten (by me anyway).
  • #18
  • Oct 6, 2009 4:56am Oct 6, 2009 4:56am
If you factor in the 16+ hour days plus weekends then it has been at least 3 years of study and testing. Been generating a consistent profit for a while now. oh, the study and testing still hasn't ended. Never will.
  • #19
  • Oct 6, 2009 5:13am Oct 6, 2009 5:13am
Hi Peter,

Agreed - and in my defence, I didn't say the question was 'invalid' - only flawed.

Of course there are more possible scenarios than the one I have just painted here. I would just add that part of the equation which deals with the uncertain part of how long we can sustain to be profitable from the point of actually making money (however many month/years that may have gone in to recover initial losses).

I personally found that staying up there (after believing I had made it into the small crowd who can claim to be profitable), is much harder than especially newer traders like to think.

Whenever people ask me, I generally rather answer the question whether I am profitable (at any particular moment during a year), by saying that I am having a good year or bad year - so far. The reason being that although my account balance since the beginning of my time in the markets (1987) is positive, I have had losing spells that on a short term basis could be considered as me being unprofitable as a trader - despite this, I never had a losing year.

So, for me these time considerations in the thread are vague - which does not mean they are invalid.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #20
  • Oct 6, 2009 5:25am Oct 6, 2009 5:25am
Amazed by some of the results. I couldn't fathom taking 3-4 yrs to become profitable.

What is the cause? Ill discipline? Lack of MM?

My backround is a professional gambler so I came into Forex knowing the graft needed to make something work. I would 95% of the losing traders suffer from poor discipline and management. It's the biggest flaw in any area of trying to make money.
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