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FXDD and False Stoploss

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 14, 2009 7:14pm Sep 14, 2009 7:14pm
Hi guys


hope u fine


i want some one to explain what is going on with my positions it close as stoploss without reaching stoploss price!!! and it happened more than one time

u can see the attached image file that although the price didn't actually reach the stoploss the positions closed?????????
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: symbol.jpg Size: 350 KB
  • #2
  • Sep 14, 2009 7:23pm Sep 14, 2009 7:23pm
Check the spread. That's usually the culprit. If it widened out, it can take out your stop.
Quoting aLcOmAnDa
Hi guys


hope u fine


i want some one to explain what is going on with my positions it close as stoploss without reaching stoploss price!!! and it happened more than one time

u can see the attached image file that although the price didn't actually reach the stoploss the positions closed?????????
  • #3
  • Sep 14, 2009 7:37pm Sep 14, 2009 7:37pm
Quoting taxgeek
Check the spread. That's usually the culprit. If it widened out, it can take out your stop.

as i know i already pay spread when i open the position not during it coz if i pay it during the position and if the spread changed then i've to pay the difference between the old & new spread and that is not actually happen
  • #4
  • Sep 14, 2009 7:45pm Sep 14, 2009 7:45pm
Best thing is always to ask your broker directly.

Good luck,
Tanya
  • #5
  • Sep 14, 2009 7:45pm Sep 14, 2009 7:45pm
if you have a SL at 100 and the spread is 2 then you will get stopped when it hits 98 (98+2) - If SL at 100 and spread=51 you will get stopped when price hits 49 (49+51=100) - Thats the way it works. - The spread WIDENED enough to hit your stop.
  • #6
  • Sep 14, 2009 7:59pm Sep 14, 2009 7:59pm
Quoting aLcOmAnDa
as i know i already pay spread when i open the position not during it coz if i pay it during the position and if the spread changed then i've to pay the difference between the old & new spread and that is not actually happen
On a SHORT position, you sell at BID price and close at ASK price.
On a LONG position, you buy at ASK price and close at BID price.

You should set your charts to show the ASK price line, given that the graphs take only the BID price into account. This way you can see effectively when the closing price is near your stop. As per your charts, seems the spread on EURGBP was 4 pips and 2 pips on CHFJPY at the time the stops were hit.

It would be better also to add the spread to whatever stoplosses you use to minimize chances of being hit.
  • #7
  • Sep 14, 2009 8:11pm Sep 14, 2009 8:11pm
Here is the little unprofitable chat between me and technical support

Quote

Muhammed : THAT'S ME
Adam: The technical Support



please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
All agents are currently busy. Please stand by.
You have been connected to adam l..
Adam l.: Welcome to fxdd live chat. How may i help you?
Adam l.: Most likely what he case is, and you can look at the graphs, is the it was a fast moving market, to the platfrom closed you out at as close to your stop/loss as possible
muhammed: Hello
muhammed: Sorry
muhammed: I was little...
  • #8
  • Sep 14, 2009 8:15pm Sep 14, 2009 8:15pm
continue the chat

adam l.: No problem
muhammed: I've a problem with stop loss
adam l.: In fast moving, volitile markets, the platform tries to get you as close to your stop loss as possible, but it may not get your exact price because the market it moving so fast
muhammed: Let me show u
muhammed: I'll give u an image i saved from mt4
muhammed: It shows my positions
muhammed: Just a moment pls i'm uploading it @ imageshack
currently experiencing network delays, one moment please....
Network connection re-established.
Muhammed: That is the link http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4743/symbolmk.jpg
muhammed: Would u please tell my why that happened
muhammed: More than 1 time
adam l.: Yes like i said it is a fast moving market, so the platform tried to get you as clost to your stop loss as possible, but it is a volitle and fast moving market
muhammed: Sorry but i cannot understand what r u saying!!!
Muhammed: I've entered a stop loss price and more than this 2 casses it happened
muhammed: And the disaster that the platform closed it as if the price reached the stoploss
muhammed: And it didn't even reach it
muhammed: Soooooooo what to do sir
muhammed: I lost more than 1 time
muhammed: Am i supposed not to enter a stoploss? Or freeze in front of the screen
adam l.: Stop losses are not guarantueed, we try to get them as close as possible, and in those two cases the market was moving very fast so it tried to get you as close to your stop loss as possible
muhammed: Please give me a solution
adam l.: Sir i can not tell you what to do, im just letting you know that stop losses in a fast moving market, sometimes tend to not hit, they just try to get as close as possible
muhammed: Ok u can say that in the case of chf/jpy but not eur/gbp
adam l.: I can say it in both those examples you sent me, cause at the time of stop loss, the market has a huge line, which means it was a fast moving market
muhammed: In eurgbp it didn't move more than 5 pips in the direction of stoploss
muhammed: 5 pips r too fast ?
Adam l.: In the two screen shots you send me it was more than 5 pips, but sir i mean you can do the stop loss, just know that we try to get you as close as possible
muhammed: No sir in eurgbp just 5 pips
adam l.: I am sorry that it only moved 5 pips and you got closed out, but like i said before they try to get you as close as possible
muhammed: But if u can't solve this tell me how much stop loss i've to enter to avoid the toooooo fast market sir
adam l.: I would say any stoploss that you want, go 5 more pips
muhammed: Thank u sir 4 not solving this issue
adam l.: No problem have a good night
thank you for using fxdd live talk. You may now close this window.
Your session has ended. You may now close this window.
  • #9
  • Sep 14, 2009 8:17pm Sep 14, 2009 8:17pm
Quoting aLcOmAnDa
as i know i already pay spread when i open the position not during it coz if i pay it during the position and if the spread changed then i've to pay the difference between the old & new spread and that is not actually happen
You didnt allow enough sl + spread on the buy side of the trade. When you take a sell position, you pay the bid price. When the trade is closed by a buy action, the ask price is used.
What is the normal spread for EURGBP & for CHFJPY.
Add that above the bars (bid prices) on the chart to see if the ask price would have normally hit your stoploss. If there is still a gap then the spread probably did widen at that time.
On the chfjpy bar, looking at the size of that tail, I would say it was a volatile moment, hence increase in spread. Check a 1 min chart.

Hangon, just had another look at the charts. If the pale blue line is the bid price & the red is the ask price, then on the eurgbp it is only about 4pips below your stoploss as at when the chart was captured. And a half pip below your sl on the chfjpy.
Big spreads are the cost of trading cross pairs.

Good luck in your trading
cheers scalpz
Target 2 : Stoploss in the green
  • #10
  • Edited 11:45pm Sep 14, 2009 11:32pm | Edited 11:45pm
Quoting aLcOmAnDa
Hi guys


hope u fine


i want some one to explain what is going on with my positions it close as stoploss without reaching stoploss price!!! and it happened more than one time

u can see the attached image file that although the price didn't actually reach the stoploss the positions closed?????????
Dude it's just the spread. Your EUR/GBP position had a SL of 8830. As several others have been explaining, if you are short, the stop loss is executed at the ASK, not the BID which is what is shown on the chart. The chart price (which is the BID), got to 8826. The EG spread at FXDD is 5 pips (right now at least), so the ASK actually went past your stop to 8831.

You pay the spread every time you execute an order, not just on entry. There's no "scam" here...
  • #11
  • Sep 15, 2009 10:11am Sep 15, 2009 10:11am
Quoting TC East
Dude it's just the spread. Your EUR/GBP position had a SL of 8830. As several others have been explaining, if you are short, the stop loss is executed at the ASK, not the BID which is what is shown on the chart. The chart price (which is the BID), got to 8826. The EG spread at FXDD is 5 pips (right now at least), so the ASK actually went past your stop to 8831.

You pay the spread every time you execute an order, not just on entry. There's no "scam" here...

ok but i need some one who can explain why does the technical support didn't say that and say thats due to FAST MARKET MOVEMENT

as i know they supposed to be high trained people and they supposed to reply the right answer and the right explaination
  • #12
  • Sep 15, 2009 10:34am Sep 15, 2009 10:34am
Quoting aLcOmAnDa
ok but i need some one who can explain why does the technical support didn't say that and say thats due to FAST MARKET MOVEMENT

as i know they supposed to be high trained people and they supposed to reply the right answer and the right explaination
supposition
1. - a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence

2. - a hypothesis that is taken for granted

Now you have some more evidence to evaluate if such an hypothesis is true or not... and its contrary is most probably the "why":

They are NOT thus they DON'T.
  • #13
  • Sep 15, 2009 10:55am Sep 15, 2009 10:55am
Quoting aLcOmAnDa
ok but i need some one who can explain why does the technical support didn't say that and say thats due to FAST MARKET MOVEMENT

as i know they supposed to be high trained people and they supposed to reply the right answer and the right explaination
If I may.... I think the support guy thought your complaint was that the stop was not executed EXACTLY at 30. Sometimes there is slippage on the stop in a fast market.

But, yes, you have to count the spread in your case.
  • #14
  • Sep 15, 2009 11:56am Sep 15, 2009 11:56am
Quoting doblece
supposition
1. - a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence

2. - a hypothesis that is taken for granted

Now you have some more evidence to evaluate if such an hypothesis is true or not... and its contrary is most probably the "why":

They are NOT thus they DON'T.

i know what u r talking about i'm NLP Practitioner and studied Hypnosis Priciples
  • #15
  • Sep 15, 2009 11:57am Sep 15, 2009 11:57am
Quoting price
If I may.... I think the support guy thought your complaint was that the stop was not executed EXACTLY at 30. Sometimes there is slippage on the stop in a fast market.

But, yes, you have to count the spread in your case.
may be yes may be no

but thank u i'll count it next time

thanks a lot
  • #16
  • Last Post: Sep 15, 2009 2:51pm Sep 15, 2009 2:51pm
Quoting aLcOmAnDa
ok but i need some one who can explain why does the technical support didn't say that and say thats due to FAST MARKET MOVEMENT

as i know they supposed to be high trained people and they supposed to reply the right answer and the right explaination
We'd all like to think that "tech support" and "customer service" is staffed by highly trained, competent professionals who care about what they do, but I think we know better.

I could give a bunch of examples of times I've contacted some company's tech support and the person was utterly clueless and rude to boot. Not saying this FXDD rep was that way, but I think you're giving these reps a lot of credit if you think they are "highly trained people." It's possible it was just some temp making $8.00/hr who won't even be there next week...
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