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Defining who is a better trader...

  • #21
  • Edited 3:33am Sep 10, 2009 3:13am | Edited 3:33am
How about a different approach. Create the Trader Archetype. What would the "Perfect Trader" look like? Then compare all traders against that.

The original question, to me, appears more who has the better method.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #22
  • Sep 10, 2009 4:24am Sep 10, 2009 4:24am
Quoting Rise
Really should be making 90% plus to justify the high risk nature of speculative Fx trading (or any speculative trading for that matter)
Risk is exactly what we choose it to be, it's just about the only thing we have any control over.
  • #23
  • Sep 10, 2009 4:26am Sep 10, 2009 4:26am
Quoting microsuck_36
i like trader B..less trade more time with family/friends...
I like trader A because I enjoy trading
  • #24
  • Sep 10, 2009 5:58am Sep 10, 2009 5:58am
Quoting LasVahGoose
How about a different approach. Create the Trader Archetype. What would the "Perfect Trader" look like? Then compare all traders against that.
Ladies and Gentlemen....

Strong, confident, composed, and master of his universe...I give you

The Perfect Trader.
Attached Image
  • #25
  • Sep 10, 2009 6:24am Sep 10, 2009 6:24am
Quoting Dopey
Ladies and Gentlemen....

Strong, confident, composed, and master of his universe...I give you

The Perfect Trader.
I see he trades naked as well.
  • #26
  • Sep 10, 2009 7:27am Sep 10, 2009 7:27am
I'd like to see a broker dealing with him when he's pissed....
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #27
  • Sep 10, 2009 8:07am Sep 10, 2009 8:07am
Quoting pipmutt
I like trader A because I enjoy trading
B may enjoy it just as much.....
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #28
  • Sep 10, 2009 9:33am Sep 10, 2009 9:33am
Quoting coscorp
B may enjoy it just as much.....

You've said 'A' does more trading than 'B'. Going by the replies in this thread it seems some people like 'B' more than 'A' because it means they do less trading. I like and enjoy trading so I do more of it than 'B'. I don't know what 'B' enjoys, but it seems he likes to do less trading than 'A'. If both 'A' and 'B' derive the same pleasure and joy from a trade then it would seem 'A' derives that pleasure more often as he trades more than 'B'

like - to take pleasure in; find agreeable or congenial:
enjoy - to experience with joy; take pleasure in:


Hope that helps
  • #29
  • Sep 10, 2009 10:26am Sep 10, 2009 10:26am
Is it A or B that drinks scotch and has a mistress?
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #30
  • Sep 10, 2009 10:39am Sep 10, 2009 10:39am
I was relaxing in my journal when all of a sudden a bunch of wheels bounced by...

Did they happen to fall off of this thread by any chance?

  • #31
  • Sep 10, 2009 11:28am Sep 10, 2009 11:28am
Quoting capitalist88
I was relaxing in my journal when all of a sudden a bunch of wheels bounced by...

Did they happen to fall off of this thread by any chance?


hahaha


Yeah, can we have our ball back please mister!
  • #32
  • Sep 10, 2009 11:33am Sep 10, 2009 11:33am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Is it A or B that drinks scotch and has a mistress?

Dammit that's probably B....A is too busy trading!

I knew there was a good reason to trade off of a 4-hour chart, I just couldn't remember what it was.......
  • #33
  • Sep 10, 2009 12:02pm Sep 10, 2009 12:02pm
I guess Trader A is better as I am in the A Category... But Trader B gets more time to relax and spend time with family & friends..... If I ever become a millionaire, I will move to Category B ....
Success is a journey not a destination...!!
  • #34
  • Sep 10, 2009 12:18pm Sep 10, 2009 12:18pm
Hey pipmutt, reconsider traderA:
Maybe he puts his dinner in the microwave, goes and sits down in front of his charts, makes five trades (four good and one 'bad') collects 10 or 15 pips turns off his computer and eats supper.

Phil
  • #35
  • Sep 10, 2009 12:41pm Sep 10, 2009 12:41pm
Quoting capitalist88
I was relaxing in my journal when all of a sudden a bunch of wheels bounced by...

Did they happen to fall off of this thread by any chance?


ROFL...time will tell I guess...


pipmutt - the quantity of time one trades doesn't have to necessarily denote more or less enjoyment derived from doing it....



or would it?
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #36
  • Sep 10, 2009 12:42pm Sep 10, 2009 12:42pm
Quoting Phil4x
Hey pipmutt, reconsider traderA:
Maybe he puts his dinner in the microwave, goes and sits down in front of his charts, makes five trades (four good and one 'bad') collects 10 or 15 pips turns off his computer and eats supper.

Phil

Hey Phil

Yep good point, a regular 10 or 15 pips with a tight'ish stop (which can be made in a few minutes sometimes) can be just as profitable or even more profitable than someone who trades longer term with a wider stop, and equally time consuming.

I guess the best trader is the one who's versatile and can trade both long and short term opportunities as market conditions dictate.
  • #37
  • Sep 10, 2009 12:57pm Sep 10, 2009 12:57pm
Quoting coscorp
pipmutt - the quantity of time one trades doesn't have to necessarily denote more or less enjoyment derived from doing it....

or would it?

If actual trading, ie opening and closing trades, is what gives the enjoyment then yes I would think the longer one trades the more enjoyment one gets, assuming both are equally successful.

I guess this is where there's a danger of becoming addicted to the excitement of trading and the cash it can produce, it's definitely a buzz to take disproportionate amounts of money from the market in such short spaces of time.......oh my God, I'm a forex junkie

Anyone got the number for Forex Traders Anonymous?
  • #38
  • Sep 10, 2009 12:58pm Sep 10, 2009 12:58pm
Quoting capitalist88
I was relaxing in my journal when all of a sudden a bunch of wheels bounced by...

Did they happen to fall off of this thread by any chance?

LOL, to be fair, glib answers aside (the OP has taken this all in good humor), this topic has been done to death in other threads, everyone has their own favorite metric (DD, Win %, Profit Factor, Sharpe, Lack of Ego...). To restate what I think is obvious, consistency is the key (in my case measured via t-score), consistency is what allows you to start scaling up.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #39
  • Sep 10, 2009 1:02pm Sep 10, 2009 1:02pm
off the top of my head it would seem there is general agreement on these traits regarding a good trader ...

good return on investment, consistency, correct risk management, versatility, sound psychology.....if others care to add anything.....


certainly seems that - using my previous analogy - horsepower (trades entered) and/ or top speed (win rate) aren't but a small fraction of the bigger picture in defining a good trader...


I wonder if anyone else is following my - perhaps twisted - thought process now....if not...quite simply...considering the amount of people that come here having no idea what trading may be about and trying to apply day to day criteria (if not dogma's) to measure success/failure and capability or lack thereof in trading FX (or any other market - each with it's own nuances) dispelling - what I believe is the myth - but followed by o so many newbies - amd that is - more is automatically better - I was hoping for this thread to shed some light in their path...

I've lost count of the times I've been told...but if you trade more and win more often you will automatically make more money.....not to mention threads i've read here of people offering millions to be taught and using trades taken and % won to decide that the individual is fit to teach them....
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #40
  • Sep 11, 2009 3:36am Sep 11, 2009 3:36am
Quoting coscorp
I've lost count of the times I've been told...but if you trade more and win more often you will automatically make more money.....

There's a logical reason why that could actually be true, and it often is.


A positional longer term trader might have to wait quite a while for a trade setup and then hold a trade for maybe weeks or months waiting for it to play out. He has to use fairly wide stops.

An intraday trader will obviously have more trade setups of smaller intraday moves. He will be using a tighter stop than a positional trader.

A scalper might make literally hundreds of trades each day with even tighter stops than the intraday trader.

Say for example a 10 cent move in Eur/Usd (1,000 pips) over 2 months. The positional trader might make 80% of the move, 800 pips. The intraday trader might make an average of say 30 pips per day, 1200 pips, or 50% more than the positional trader. The scalper might make an average of 60 pips per day, 2400 pips, twice as much as the intraday trader and three times more than the positional trader.

If you add into the equation position sizing, the number of trading opportunities, risk exposure to longer term fundamentals and market sentiment, and the time it takes for the respective traders trades to play out then there could be a massive difference in returns.

This is part of the reason why large funds struggle to produce even double digit returns wheras it's quite common for a smaller private trader to produce triple digit returns.

Of course this is all on the assumption that the respective traders actually know how to trade!
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