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Some Questions

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 4, 2009 5:23pm Sep 4, 2009 5:23pm
Hello everyone! I have recently started looking into trading Forex. Yes, another rookie. I have just been reading for the past week or so, and think I am ready to start playing with Demo's for awhile. I have no money to be messing around with live (accually have no money at all) but would like to start to practice reading charts and trading whilst developing a strategy and money managment for when I do finally get some money to play with.

I have been searching for a system that would fit my style of trading (and good for a rookie to learn), and so far I have intrest in James16 strategy, and Phillip Nel's 4 hour MACD system. What do you guys think? I am really not a gambler so keeping really low risk and tight money managment is something I need.

Anyway, I would like to test these two, first starting with James16's strategy because it seems more simple and good to learn price action with, which seems like you need to know with any other system/strategy.

One more question, I am on a Linux system, so I was looking for a broker with a good demo program using a web platform... any suggestions? So far ACM, and GFT are the only one's I see.

Thank You.
  • #2
  • Sep 5, 2009 12:50am Sep 5, 2009 12:50am
Those are good choices (especially the James16 thread even though I've never read this stuff).

If you want to trade via a web platform check out Oanda. That's a very, very good broker even with small money.
  • #3
  • Sep 5, 2009 5:27am Sep 5, 2009 5:27am
Quoting Monroe
Hello everyone! I have recently started looking into trading Forex. Yes, another rookie. I have just been reading for the past week or so, and think I am ready to start playing with Demo's for awhile. I have no money to be messing around with live (accually have no money at all) but would like to start to practice reading charts and trading whilst developing a strategy and money managment for when I do finally get some money to play with.

I have been searching for a system that would fit my style of trading (and good for a rookie to learn), and...
Your first step would be to read through J16s thread so you had better boil that kettle and add the coffee and milk straight to it cause there is plenty of hours worth there. Another good thread that deals with indicatorless charting is Strats thread.

I would also recommend doing some charting homework. Babypips is a great place to start to get your head around technical charting.

From there it is a matter of time and time (yes I wrote it twice). 4 years in I am only just getting my act together and trading a plan but still I learn more and more everyday. There are some great people here that will help you along the way, so long as you do some homework first (not skip to the end of a thread and ask questions answer 20 times throughout the thread).

Good luck.

Oanda is a great place to start. You can start with as little as a dollar and trade a micro account (1 unit at a time). It may not be fancy but it will give you a feel for live trading without raping and pillaging your account.

Razor
  • #4
  • Sep 5, 2009 8:43am Sep 5, 2009 8:43am
Thank you guys. Yes I have read through the Babypips school during the past week, and I am constantly reading this forum and watching youtube video's on how this is being done.

Most people who do this for a living, and who don't have tons of money to put into an account, are they working with shorter time frames? It seems like all day traders (guys who do this for a living) are trading shorter times like 15m charts and are using ma's, fibs, pivot points, round numbers (psych levels) etc...

The james16 system seems like a great low risk system, but using the dailies with this system seems like it is geared more towards people who are allready successful and have larger accounts. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not looking to get rich quick and realize this takes a lot of time, but while I am learning and practicing, I'm thinking maybe it's better to practice the shorter time frames because when I do get some money to play with, it would seem to be how to make the most profit in the shortest time. Once you do get enough money in an account, something like the james16 system would be an excellent way to have almost like an investment strategy which is relativly safe. What do you guys think?

I also realize there is no one system, but for the most part, it seems like day traders,and people making money doing this for a living are using the shorter time frames.... But I am not sure.

What are your opinions on this?
  • #5
  • Sep 5, 2009 3:23pm Sep 5, 2009 3:23pm
Quoting Monroe
Thank you guys. Yes I have read through the Babypips school during the past week, and I am constantly reading this forum and watching youtube video's on how this is being done.

Most people who do this for a living, and who don't have tons of money to put into an account, are they working with shorter time frames? It seems like all day traders (guys who do this for a living) are trading shorter times like 15m charts and are using ma's, fibs, pivot points, round numbers (psych levels) etc...

The james16 system seems like a great low risk system,...
If you feel comfortable with something and you can trust it the chances are you will stick with it for longer. There are many ways that people can succeed in this game. For some the shorter timeframes offer them more signals are for there models it is suited, others like myself prefer higher TFs. There are benefits in both camps. My piece of advice is to trial a few and work your way into one that suits your needs.

The starting balance of your account is not what matters, unless of course you are doing it full time in which case I wouldnt be advising you of anything, it is how you trade your plan. While it may seem impressive to trade a 100K account, achieve 5-10% per month to live off (more than enough really) unless you are prepared to absorb the losses on such a large scale then you will not move forward. Starting small and building big through disciplined model execution is a great start. If you can excel with a smaller account and you feel ready to move forward then add some funds as you go.

It is great to dream big but the reality is that along the way you will pay your dues through the pain of loosing money. Despite what people may say it is just a part of trading. If you cannot loose small and move forward you will not succeed when the account is a tradable size to live off. I recommend demo trading until you have a modelled plan that suits you as a trader and you execute it. Once you are doing that go to Oanda who let you trade micro amounts and throw in a small portion of your own money. It may be small but you will be amazed at the pyschology that comes into effect as soon as you see that small amount bounce back and forth.

From there it is your destiny to complete. If you have a modeled plan that is quite well backtested and has worked for X period (i recommend doing at least 10 years, it may be painstaking but you will at least get a good idea of how successful the model is over periods of booms and busts) then there should be little reason, provided you are comfortable with it, to trade it through tough times. Often traders try to minimise the risk but added everything they can to avoid loosing. Once they have done this and discovered they are still loosing they just up and change models. Like I said, if you model is robust over time then you will have an edge that you will understand and during difficult times can fall back on the history.

In time though it is completely your decision who you trade. You are the only one accountable for your trade history and future.

Best of luck

Razor
  • #6
  • Sep 5, 2009 3:28pm Sep 5, 2009 3:28pm
Quoting Monroe
Thank you guys. Yes I have read through the Babypips school during the past week, and I am constantly reading this forum and watching youtube video's on how this is being done.

Most people who do this for a living, and who don't have tons of money to put into an account, are they working with shorter time frames? It seems like all day traders (guys who do this for a living) are trading shorter times like 15m charts and are using ma's, fibs, pivot points, round numbers (psych levels) etc...

The james16 system seems like a great low risk system,...
The other great piece of advice I recieved, and I use it for all trades is to implement a system that allows your profits to run.

Some may move there stop loss to BE after X pips. I usually take a portion off a X pips that renders my trade 'free'. For example removing 1/2 your trade at 1:1 would leave the stop loss in place and give your trade room to move. The benefits of either case are that BE is a worst outcome and you can focus on your next trade ie forget about the running one, let it mature for as long as you can.

History is marked with points that havent been retouched, or have just recently been hit after years in play. These situation will make you more than the stresses of 1 M powerplays aiming for 1:1 or worse.

Razor
  • #7
  • Edited Sep 6, 2009 5:54am Sep 5, 2009 3:30pm | Edited Sep 6, 2009 5:54am
Monroe

Believe it or not your question is extremely hard to answer. You have to answer it for yourself and it depends in large part on your personality.
My advice however would be to get a demo account and trade it SERIOUSLY, that is the key the serious part. Personally I could not, I had to trade using micro accounts ie 10cents a pip value or else I was flippant in my entry exits etc. Now that I have traded for a while I can trade a demo seriously as I am testing a method, my outlook and personality has been refined for 4x.
One other opinion, I don't believe there are too many trading with a small account (under 50K) that are making a decent living.They may be building there account but not really living off it.
  • #8
  • Sep 5, 2009 3:44pm Sep 5, 2009 3:44pm
Quoting bapxyz
Monroe

Believe it or not your question is extremely hard to answer. You have to answer it for yourself and it depends in large part on your personality.
My advice however would be to get a demo account and trade it SERIOUSLY, that is the key the serious part. Personally I cold not, I had to trade using micro accounts ie 10cents a pip value or else I was flippant in my entry exits etc. Now that I have traded for a while I can trade a demo seriously as I am testing a method, my outlook and personality has been refined for 4x.
One other opinion,...
50K is about the starting point for trading for a living. If you can achieve 5-10% per month (Yes i know there are those of you who make 500% per month) then you will have a small benchmark that is livable without adding to the bottomline. 5%-10% is a realistic target although higher months are definatly achievable. If heading in that direction you just need to work out your monthly living expenses and work out a % that is needed from you capital to maintain this. If you can maintain it then the bonus months can help to increase or replenish your account (replenish for the times where you loose in a month but still need to withdraw to achieve a living)

It is a different ball game trading for a living as opposed to just trading for extra money, challenge or what ever purpose you may have. Once you are solely relient on your results the world can seem to collapse on you.

Take care

Razor
  • #9
  • Sep 5, 2009 3:51pm Sep 5, 2009 3:51pm
Hey bro,

FF doesn't allow you to quote stuff anymore so I replied to your questions, your writing is in italic and my responses are in bold.





Thank you guys. Yes I have read through the Babypips school during the past week, and I am constantly reading this forum and watching youtube video's on how this is being done.

Hello and welcome sir !

Most people who do this for a living, and who don't have tons of money to put into an account, are they working with shorter time frames? It seems like all day traders (guys who do this for a living) are trading shorter times like 15m charts and are using ma's, fibs, pivot points, round numbers (psych levels) etc...

Not necessarily, some people who do it for a living trade weekly, some trade the 5Minute, some don't even trade and let robots do their trading for them .

The james16 system seems like a great low risk system, but using the dailies with this system seems like it is geared more towards people who are allready successful and have larger accounts. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not looking to get rich quick and realize this takes a lot of time, but while I am learning and practicing, I'm thinking maybe it's better to practice the shorter time frames because when I do get some money to play with, it would seem to be how to make the most profit in the shortest time. Once you do get enough money in an account, something like the james16 system would be an excellent way to have almost like an investment strategy which is relativly safe. What do you guys think?

You say the James16 system is a low risk system, which in a way it can be. You keep your Risk nice and low (I am a 1% man myself) and you will never be in fear of the evils of account drawdown.

It is not better to practise the shorter timeframes because what causes price to move on the longer terms DOES NOT cause it to move like that on the shorter terms, also "Most profit in the shorest time will get you killed" in this game. You are new so if you trade the higher timeframes at least you have time to react to what is happening. Time to think.

You need to read this post here by TheRealThing - http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...9&postcount=32

I also realize there is no one system, but for the most part, it seems like day traders,and people making money doing this for a living are using the shorter time frames.... But I am not sure.

Again it varies. But if you start off trading the higher timeframes at least you won't be on a wild goose chase that the majority of people here are on and you will actually learn properly.

Best Regards and Godspeed,
Jig
  • #10
  • Sep 5, 2009 7:14pm Sep 5, 2009 7:14pm
Quoting Jigsaw
Hey bro,



You need to read this post here by TheRealThing - http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...9&postcount=32


Jig
Joels post need to be highlight, bold, Italic and Underlined in the Heavens. His early post, particularly like the one above are a straightforward No BS view of the reality of trading. If you can swallow the information and accept it without getting emotional then you will be somewhat on a better path.

I have to be honest and say I have read and watched alot on Joel and his is the reason I am trading in a more focused, disciplined and successful manner. There are few people around that have traded the floor (for years) that venture into areas like this and lay out posts that can give you an immediate sense of your proximity in this realm. If you want to venture further look up Utility Theory- Trading for Infinite Yield. It will give you some insight into what trading for long term is and some useful info on how the theory works.

Great post Jigsaw

Razor
  • #11
  • Sep 5, 2009 7:42pm Sep 5, 2009 7:42pm
Wow, thanks alot guys for putting some time in to reply to my questions, great people here it seems. That is exellent. I really appreciate that.

I will tell you... I'm 26 years old and pretty much don't have a pot to piss in. I have an unstable job, but I am in school again trying to get a quick degree to try and make at least 40-50k a year to start when I get out. My plan is to save as much money of that as possible and do something on the side such as real estate, or Forex which I have just found out about. It seems like such a risky market to play, but I am seeing people making great profits and doing this for a living so it must be doable with enough practice. I hate 9-5 jobs... I hate jobs period. I want to be financially stable and independent as soon as possible. A dream? maybe...

My plan is to just demo for a few years and after that play with small accounts with money I don't give a shit about, just trying to make a system work for me. I also understand that you can't trade for a living with small acounts of course... but my only intention right now is to practice practice practice. I would never risk a real account with money I depend on, without a solid understanding of this market and a great system that works for me.

The only thing I am really trying to find out is which method and TF to start messing around with that would give me a great deal of understanding of how to read charts and learn the market. I don't look at this as a way to "get rich quick", but as it seems, it looks like a great way to "financial freedom" if you work hard for it. I am prepared to do that if I see it can work. And I see people doing it, and read about people who are doing it. I feel as if I am inferior to no one, and if someone can do it, so can I.

Thanks again guys.

By the way, I registered with easy-forex because they had a web platform, but I'm not a big fan of it already. The chart system doesn't seem to have a lot of tools or trading options on the simulator such as trailing stops and stuff like that, but I will mess around with it some more, I could be wrong. How is Oanda's web platform? Or ACM's? anyone use these?
  • #12
  • Sep 5, 2009 11:26pm Sep 5, 2009 11:26pm
Quoting Monroe
Wow, thanks alot guys for putting some time in to reply to my questions, great people here it seems. That is exellent. I really appreciate that.

I will tell you... I'm 26 years old and pretty much don't have a pot to piss in. I have an unstable job, but I am in school again trying to get a quick degree to try and make at least 40-50k a year to start when I get out. My plan is to save as much money of that as possible and do something on the side such as real estate, or Forex which I have just found out about. It seems like such a risky market to...
Every good business decision comes with an opportunity cost.

Where investing money in forex can be quite risky with ever likelihood of you loosing your ass, the rewards are also great which always have, and will attract ppl in myriad numbers, the majority of whom will fail to ever make it, simply because they were wrong footed to start with.

IF you do your due diligence (and that can spread out over 'years') trading has a serious potential of fulfilling your dream maybe even take you beyond...it should all come down to your determination, patience and other skills you either have or ought to develop to make it in this business.

A good big majority of all those who step in with such dreams are rudely thrown out of the market because they were never able to step inside the right frame of mind....a fact you need to embrace right before you decide to devote yourself to forex as your savior.

Playing around with demos and small accounts for learning purposes is always a great idea and a foremost recommendation until you know "EXACTLY" why the hell you're shorting euro,

There are quite a few places here at FF that could help you get off the mark, the J16 thread like Jig said is probably the best out there for anybody new precisely because of the overall 'trading sense' that it can provide you with in addition to a trading system if you want.

All the best Bro,

Ghous.
I believe . . .
  • #13
  • Sep 5, 2009 11:53pm Sep 5, 2009 11:53pm
Thanks Ghous, I plan to take this seriously. I have been reading the J16 thread for days now trying to make sense of it all and learn the price action system. It's relatively simple in terms of indicators and such, so I feel it's a good start.

I have much more reading and re-reading to do even before I start messing with the demo accounts. When I feal as if I can become profitable with a system and finally get some money to play with (sometime down the line), I will play with small accounts and lots to test it for real. This will be a long time from now, and I am fine with that. The more practice, the better I will feel once it's game-time for real.

In the meantime, I have fun just reading and learning about it, It's fascinating stuff...

Good luck to you all.
  • #14
  • Sep 6, 2009 12:22am Sep 6, 2009 12:22am
Quoting Monroe
Thanks Ghous, I plan to take this seriously. I have been reading the J16 thread for days now trying to make sense of it all and learn the price action system. It's relatively simple in terms of indicators and such, so I feel it's a good start.

I have much more reading and re-reading to do even before I start messing with the demo accounts. When I feal as if I can become profitable with a system and finally get some money to play with (sometime down the line), I will play with small accounts and lots to test it for real. This will be a long time...
So far you look great with your Grey matter,

All the best of luck,

Ghous.
I believe . . .
  • #15
  • Sep 6, 2009 6:30am Sep 6, 2009 6:30am
Can't argue with any of the advice everyone is giving you Monroe and I agree you seem like a serious young man that has his head on straight.
But I have been meaning to add a point of clarification ( actually just my opinion) to something I see stated over and over again. It usually goes something like this " forex is tough and most will loose all there money and sell there wife and dog to keep trading". Well not true. There wife maybe but never there dog.
No seriously. I don't think 4X is any different than any other business. Most people fail at self employment period. I don't care if you set out to be a baker, a doctor, or a garbage collector most people fail and it is because there are so many things that can go wrong. Leave out one detail of the business plan and you are probably doomed. Now in forex if you control the risk so you have something left to work with, you can go back and fix the details.
So go for it man just don't bet the dog.
  • #16
  • Sep 6, 2009 1:32pm Sep 6, 2009 1:32pm
Quoting Monroe
Thanks Ghous, I plan to take this seriously. I have been reading the J16 thread for days now trying to make sense of it all and learn the price action system. It's relatively simple in terms of indicators and such, so I feel it's a good start.

I have much more reading and re-reading to do even before I start messing with the demo accounts. When I feal as if I can become profitable with a system and finally get some money to play with (sometime down the line), I will play with small accounts and lots to test it for real. This will be a long time...
It would be probable that if you were experimenting with a demo account or two, the information you glean here will make more sense.

Just a thought,
Tanya
  • #17
  • Sep 8, 2009 2:13am Sep 8, 2009 2:13am
Quoting babyleaps
if you were experimenting with a demo account or two
or 5 or 10, in fact
  • #18
  • Last Post: Sep 8, 2009 4:48pm Sep 8, 2009 4:48pm
Thanks guys. Yes, I have 2 demo accounts. I needed a web platform because I'm running a linux system. I registered with easy-forex for the simulator and didn't like that too much. Then I signed up with Oanda, which I will most likely use for trading in the future anyway, if all goes well. I accually like the platform. It has all I need, except it doesn't label the lines/fibs/etc so it's a little confusing. Does anyone know if that's possible to do on the oanda charts?

Anyway, just to update, I have been reading the James16 stuff for a few hours each night. I have been studying charts looking at where his techniques would have worked and what not, and where would have been good to get in and out, and why. Very good stuff, and I think successful forex guys like james16 are great human beings for taking the time to help people out, teaching something that works (for free) on forums like this. That's just super cool...

Anyway.. I have more to learn about money managment still. I should take a break and read up on that so I can begin to demo his method and see how it works for me. Just wanna say thanks again to everyone that replied and you will be hearing more from me in the near future...
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