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  • #441
  • Sep 5, 2009 10:03am Sep 5, 2009 10:03am
Quoting FXEZ
ForexFlash, good points and yes that's where the focus should be headed - the chart as a guide but the order flow to help interpret what's actually going on.

It's one thing to suppose that stops are getting hit in an area due to TA, history or probabilities, and quite another to actually watch the flow of orders........

This is almost painful!

Where exactly are you planning on getting this 'order flow' data which you're going to 'actually watch'? EBS? Reuters? Don't tell me, CME currency futures!

Plenty of people talking up a good game here and trying to make it all sound extremely complicated and something only they could possibly understand or know the 'secret' about, complete with cryptic nonsense, but at the end of the day there's absolutely nothing of any substance!
  • #442
  • Sep 5, 2009 10:26am Sep 5, 2009 10:26am
Quoting pipmutt
at the end of the day there's absolutely nothing of any substance!
Maby or maby not, I havent read the whole thread to follow these guys chain of thought yet. Ill try and make the time to do so tomorrow.

But if I was them I would refrain from getting too excited untill they have some results to back up their theories. Too many time's when your trying to build a profitable system/method/outlook you jump the gun, think your there (for no good reason) and then fall flat on your face.

I dont see how anyone in this thread could have done enough testing to be sure yet.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #443
  • Sep 5, 2009 11:07am Sep 5, 2009 11:07am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
I dont see how anyone in this thread could have done enough testing to be sure yet.
Only took some people three days Leon
  • #444
  • Sep 5, 2009 12:12pm Sep 5, 2009 12:12pm
Quoting pipmutt
Plenty of people talking up a good game here and trying to make it all sound extremely complicated and something only they could possibly understand or know the 'secret' about, complete with cryptic nonsense, but at the end of the day there's absolutely nothing of any substance!
Hmm...I'm not sure if you and I are reading the same thread...I think plenty has been said......but your the one with 10 vouches and 702 posts, so what do I know...
  • #445
  • Sep 5, 2009 12:21pm Sep 5, 2009 12:21pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Maby or maby not, I havent read the whole thread to follow these guys chain of thought yet. Ill try and make the time to do so tomorrow.

But if I was them I would refrain from getting too excited untill they have some results to back up their theories. Too many time's when your trying to build a profitable system/method/outlook you jump the gun, think your there (for no good reason) and then fall flat on your face.

I dont see how anyone in this thread could have done enough testing to be sure yet.
Wow, seriously? Your looking for posted 'results'? Nobody is talking about a 'profitable system/method'. The op of this thread's obvious intention was to help people actually understand how the market works......On page one of this thread someone said "I hoped I would never see a thread like this", he responded "It doesn't matter, you could spoon feed it to some people and they still wouldn't get it"......damn, he was spot on...
  • #446
  • Sep 5, 2009 12:30pm Sep 5, 2009 12:30pm
Quoting jpat1023
Hmm...I'm not sure if you and I are reading the same thread...I think plenty has been said......but your the one with 10 vouches and 702 posts, so what do I know...

I have no idea what you know, posts should be judged on content not on volume or vouch's.

The point I was making is that people are talking about watching order flow data but no-one has addressed the obvious problem with this idea.....there isn't any for the spot forex market!

Some people have posted cryptic messages but like I say it's all smoke so far, nothing tangible of any substance regarding a source for reliable and accurate order information.
  • #447
  • Edited 1:25pm Sep 5, 2009 12:40pm | Edited 1:25pm
Just to make one thing clear: watching charts won´t give you any QUANTIFIABLE INFORMATION about orders placed at different levels (type of orders, their size, exact position, etc.). Those posted charts with price swings creating S/R zones are nice to look at after the fact, but DID YOU TRADE IT based on the information about orders or orderflow derived from the chart itself live?

This post is meant only as sort of a reality check for retail trader. The post above mine says it better.

Bluefish
  • #448
  • Sep 5, 2009 1:26pm Sep 5, 2009 1:26pm
Quoting pipmutt
I have no idea what you know, posts should be judged on content not on volume or vouch's.
I agree...and looking back, my post may have been a little asshole-ish, sorry if it seemed so...

Let me ask you a question:
If price moves into an obvious area of demand(support to the left), and quickly rebounds and heads north, what does that say about the orders that were sitting in that area waiting to be filled?
Can small orders quickly soak up supply and reverse price?

Of course, we can't know exact price and exact quantity, but this isn't needed...I'm telling you guys, its on the charts, you just have to think logically about what you are looking at.
  • #449
  • Sep 5, 2009 1:26pm Sep 5, 2009 1:26pm
i don't know who posted the Osler stuff, but thanks. It's some very good work and worth reading.
  • #450
  • Sep 5, 2009 1:37pm Sep 5, 2009 1:37pm
Hi Guys,
I have just read through all the posts that the OP has posted and not once does he say that HE is using the orderbook, he says it 'can be done' without the chart but he does not say that he uses it.

Where are the posts from the OP describing how to interpet the orderbook data...there are none.
I have opened a two week demo from Dukascopy which contains the orderbook feature and to be quite frank it really is just numbers moving up and down and flashing. To read it properly and interpret it correctly would need lots of watching intently for months.
  • #451
  • Edited 1:54pm Sep 5, 2009 1:41pm | Edited 1:54pm
Quoting Dopey
i don't know who posted the Osler stuff, but thanks. It's some very good work and worth reading.
Thank StoragePro from J16 for mentioning them and ScottyB for posting links.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #452
  • Sep 5, 2009 1:46pm Sep 5, 2009 1:46pm
Quoting bluefish
Just to make one thing clear: watching charts won´t give you any QUANTIFIABLE INFORMATION about orders placed at different levels (type of orders, their size, exact position, etc.).
I would definitely disagree.
See above.
Quoting bluefish
but DID YOU TRADE IT based on the information about orders or orderflow derived from the chart itself live?
Yes.
Friday, Eur/Usd...if I have time later (and decide I want to) I'll go through my entire thought process...I went long at 1.4206 (with a limit order even) as price quickly left the obvious area of demand...where do you think I exited?
  • #453
  • Sep 5, 2009 2:04pm Sep 5, 2009 2:04pm
As orderflow is obviously the reason for all price action in the market ie pinbar formation bouncing off support etc etc it is easy to say that that is the reason why the pinbar formed, of course it is ..orderflow leads to price action.
What I'm trying to say here is that I think the way the OP is using the word orderflow is misleading as there is no evidence in any of his posts to suggest that he is reading it.

If I wanted to teach people about orderflow why would I post charts?
If I wanted to teach people about PA which results from orderflow I would post charts.

Something just doesn't feel right now, anyone else thinking the same thing??

Cheers J
  • #454
  • Edited 2:31pm Sep 5, 2009 2:13pm | Edited 2:31pm
Quoting jpat1023

Let me ask you a question:
If price moves into an obvious area of demand(support to the left), and quickly rebounds and heads north, what does that say about the orders that were sitting in that area waiting to be filled?
Can small orders quickly soak up supply and reverse price?

Of course, we can't know exact price and exact quantity, but this isn't needed...I'm telling you guys, its on the charts, you just have to think logically about what you are looking at.

I'm not disagreeing with you, charts are all I've ever used because they're all that's availbable as far as I know, unless someone wants to post something different. But I think bluefish is right when he said we don't know any quantifiable information on type of orders, their size, exact position. It's all an educated guess basically, nothing more than a probability albeit a good one. (edit: I just read your posts again, you're saying we don't actually need the accurate data, agreed)

It doesn't hurt to repeat it but I think what you're saying has been covered in the thread somewhere, in fact the idea is in the charts the OP posted right at the start.

I might have lost sight of the goal here, what exactly are we trying to achieve in the thread or have we already achieved it?



@slimcat - good point, why post a chart if it's solely order flow we're supposed to be looking at, mind you he did say he doesn't need charts, I think that's where some of the confusion comes in, everyone seems to be on a mission to find a source of order flow information!


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  • #455
  • Sep 5, 2009 2:24pm Sep 5, 2009 2:24pm
Quoting slimcat
As orderflow is obviously the reason for all price action in the market ie pinbar formation bouncing off support etc etc it is easy to say that that is the reason why the pinbar formed, of course it is ..orderflow leads to price action.
What I'm trying to say here is that I think the way the OP is using the word orderflow is misleading as there is no evidence in any of his posts to suggest that he is reading it.

If I wanted to teach people about orderflow why would I post charts?
If I wanted to teach people about PA which results from orderflow...
Jesus Christ...Can you not look at a chart and think in terms of order flow?
Candles are simply arbitrary points in time where we designate an 'open' and a 'close'...If the up thrust of the 'pinbar' was at the end of the candle and closed, then the next candle opened and went directly down. Are those two bars any different than a pin bar?

This thread is getting frustrating...I can't wait till Monday. (lol, won't hear that too often)
  • #456
  • Sep 5, 2009 2:30pm Sep 5, 2009 2:30pm
Quoting jpat1023
Jesus Christ...Can you not look at a chart and think in terms of order flow?
Candles are simply arbitrary points in time where we designate an 'open' and a 'close'...If the up thrust of the 'pinbar' was at the end of the candle and closed, then the next candle opened and went directly down. Are those two bars any different than a pin bar?

This thread is getting frustrating...I can't wait till Monday. (lol, won't hear that too often)
Slightly abrasive but i think this is the only post of this thread with any honest value and the one i most agree with...except the Monday thing
  • #457
  • Sep 5, 2009 2:30pm Sep 5, 2009 2:30pm
Quoting pipmutt
It doesn't hurt to repeat it but I think what you're saying has been covered in the thread somewhere, in fact the idea is in the charts the OP posted right at the start.
lol, yes, some of these things have been posted multiple times in this thread, some by the op, some by me, some by others...I have prefaced some of my posts with this fact, but it seems its not being digested...and then someone will come in here and try to make things extremely complicated.

By no means am I saying its easy, and I definitely don't have all the answers, far from it, and I've said this multiple times as well, but its not as complicated as some people try to make it...
  • #458
  • Sep 5, 2009 2:45pm Sep 5, 2009 2:45pm
Quoting jpat1023
some of these things have been posted multiple times in this thread, some by the op, some by me, some by others...
No problem. These are things that not only bear repeating but, need reinforcement. They are starting to make their way into my skull.

Thanks!
  • #459
  • Edited 3:09pm Sep 5, 2009 2:52pm | Edited 3:09pm
Quoting jpat1023
but it seems its not being digested...and then someone will come in here and try to make things extremely complicated.

I think that's where the confusion started, people took 'read order flow' in the literal sense, a kind of viewable book with all the orders in, people are downloading fx futs demo platforms and forex spot demo platforms with broker's Level 2 data for crissakes

I agree that the probable places for orders are on the charts but it still leaves a question mark over the statement the OP made, "you don't need the charts believe me" (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=3001996#post3001996), and I think that's where all this started getting ambiguous!

I'd like to believe it wasn't a deliberate attempt to mislead people up a dead end because the OP seems like a nice guy, but the promises of more charts and explanations, then a few cryptic messages, and then his sudden exit with the parting words "My work is done here" when it quite obviously wasn't makes me wonder if we're not part of an elaborate hoax!
  • #460
  • Sep 5, 2009 2:58pm Sep 5, 2009 2:58pm
Quoting jpat1023
Jesus Christ...Can you not look at a chart and think in terms of order flow?
That may have been the original intent of the thread. To help those that cannot think in terms of orderflow on the chart.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
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