(binned per thread starter's request) Behind Price-Orderflow

Hi Peeps,

I will try and make this post short as i have charts that explain my thoughts,i think the saying is:"A picture speaks a thousand words".
I have been staring at charts now for an embarrassing amount of time,so i won't give you the number.But having done this has allowed me to gain some amount of clarity.
Here are a few basic thoughts that i will share and i hope this allows traders to look at charts not in terms of graphics/pixels but in terms of ORDERFLOW.Yes,traders placing orders are what make prices go up and down.Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated.
I hope it helps at least ONE trader to grow.


1.A basic understanding of the different participants and why they do what they do.
2.Strategies that these traders use.
3.ALL order types and their use.I know this sounds simple,but when you begin to grasp what orders traders use,why and where,then you may find yourself mixing shoulders with the big boys.
4.The one way market.This is like the roulette wheel that has only black numbers and you get to bet black all day and win.
5.What happens when people get GREEDY and FRIGHTENED.
6.ALWAYS REMEMBER,THIS IS ABOUT MONEY(THE MOST VALUABLE COMMODITY ON EARTH).Everyone wants a piece of the pie.
When you open up your platform and begin business,every other trader on the planet goes there as you do to make MONEY.Someone will lose and someone will win.If you don't UNDERSTAND you WILL lose.


To be honest,i have read too many posts that seem to be HOCUS-POCUS and much dancing around the subject but not getting straight to the cut.Really though,i should thank anyone who never gave it away,it has allowed me to spend cold dark nights in the corner of my room trying to nut it out.Believe me,you appreciate it somewhat more when you bust your OWN hump.
This may sound amusing but i really hate forums(any forums) and only really come here to post in Shamus's picture thread(relaxation for me lol-btw,nice thread Shamus),i think 90% of my posts are there lol,and also have a look see at the big threads and a few journals.Don't get me wrong,this forum contains posts that are "A" grade 100%,rare,but there nonetheless.
I spend a lot of my time trying to find a way of placing myself in this band(95%-100%)and taking myself from this band(0%-94%).

I will expand on points as i go along,and anyone is also welcome to post advice provided it isn't misleading.I am just trying to help newcomers UNDERSTAND what's important:

ORDERS-this again is another obvious remark but holds more weight than most know.Ever wondered what makes a pin bar?bearish outside bar?any other price bar for that matter, it even makes all types of indicators move around the place?.......its traders placing ORDERS.

This thread will be a discussion about ORDERS.
Who places them?
Why they place them?
Where they place them?

At the end of the day this IS what makes any market go up and down.

Hanover,to be honest bud,there was a thread you were involved in that really set my upstairs room into overdrive lol(don't know the thread) and it was only a sentence or two that got me going,so i will have to give you some credit.
To be honest,i don't know everything,unfortunately lol.
This is about growth,not only for myself but for every other trader out there,lets talk business.
Over the next few days i will add charts with commentary and discuss and expand on points made earlier.
Focus and think about words/sentences/questions in bold type above,this is critical for thread growth.
See i told you it would be a short post lol
Looking forward to it.

Charts are attached for understanding,one of these trades i was in tonight live.

cheers
steve

Geeeeeezus, you've let the cat out of the bag now. I was hoping not to see a thread like this. If it reduces my trading salary I'll come knocking....

don't worry porkpie,some just won't get it.even if you fed it to them lol
there is someone out there making WAAAAY to much and it needs to be shared around.greedy bastards,no need for that.
i read somewhere,i think bemac maybe,20% of the worlds population posses 80% of the capital.should we not even things out,no?

here's another:

i'm sorry everybody,my son has a special disability and used my FF username to post.please excuse me.i have told him that this will be his first and last post.
porkpie,if my son has let the cat out of the bag then we should all feel ashamed that a small boy has cracked the code lol.
savantism,who would think.

i'm off to bed,its late here in Oz.
again my apologies


cheers

Hey Steve, looks like this could be an interesting thread! (put your son back on immediately!! )

I'd have to question your theory on the motives of the players though....

1st chart Eur/Usd, that was a reaction to news wasn't it? Would sellers really be expecting buyers to be loading up at that consolidation, wouldn't they wait for a breakout above those highs for potentially the next leg up?

2nd chart, I don't trade GBP/AUD and can't find a chart for it right now, useless brokers charts!

3rd chart Cable, why would sellers be loading up in an uptrend, isn't the spike up more likely to be buyers trading the breakout above those previous highs rather than a short squeeze?


Edit: And the 4th chart EUR/USD, same thing, a news spike.

None of it really looks like strategic manipulation to me, it looks like normal movement to be honest.

btw,if your good...real good,you'll adapt nonetheless.
take care

calling me a bastard !!

Its true, it takes an iron set of balls to pull the triggger against a tanking market at those magic order flow levels.

Nice thread, just don't make it too popular!

A quote from the Sage of Omaha springs to mind:

"We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful."

If you can read the market and identify the points where fear will manifest itself, and therefore the triggering of stops will occur on large scale, then you're well ahead of the curve. I only realised the importance of this when I looked back over hundreds of trades which were stopped out and saw how price reacted after - they showed a high tendency to breakout hard, yet I was only closing out losing positions rather than capitalising upon some of the most profitable market moves.

An excellent thread, I hope it doesn't descend into farce. I'm about done with 'the market is random because I can't profit from it' argument.

lol

I'm not arguing the fact that the market is manipulated by those who can, I would if I could, but the charts posted aren't the best examples in my opinion.

I'm not sure that skfx has explicitly stated that these moves are engineered by insiders, although he might yet, but do these moves need to be manipulated for the opportunities to exist? I suggest that they aren't. If a market looks bullish, then appears to break-out above then there is a high probability that market participants will bundle in and all have their stops just below the breakout point, below the last low, or given space at some point below the last low. When these stops start getting triggered then the market goes into freefall, ceteris paribus.

Oh right, I thought he was referring to why players strategically push price in a particular direction (ie "they squeeze sellers hard...real hard" was one of the captions), I just assumed by 'they' he meant players intentionally running stops after enticing traders into a trade in the opposite direction. But if we're talking about business as normal then sure, likely areas for stops are there for all to see (or apparently not if this is a revelation to some!), and momentum gathers when there's a cascade of them, I agree.

@pip
no,no pip,i have no son.i wish i had a savant son who could process data though,it would come in real handy.you don't know anyone btw do you lol?i think maybe you got my joke here,some folk don't see my sense of humour.

@pork
pork,no way bud,not you.i was referring to those with capital to large to image,a little less wouldn't hurt them(a downgrade from aston martin to mercedes-no big deal right?lol).pork sees my sense of humour and i like his lol.

@pip
don't question motives pip.make no mistake,MONEY is on the line.to make money you must strip it from the next guy,otherwise you become the bait.
there is no such thing as play nice in global markets unfortunately lol,
there is a skew towards the guys on the inside and its a big one.you don't see to many retail traders driving aston martins around.

pip,it doesn't matter what it was,remember think in terms of orders.i could not care less if it was 911/london bombings/nfp(don't take me wrong here,i'm talking in terms of trading.terrorists are sick).there just traders placing orders or they not?when these traders see that things aren't going to plan then guess what happens,yep you got it,more orders-damage control.one thing leads to another and bam.......an opportunity to play the ALL black roulette wheel lol.step on up folks.

if i gave the best away then i wouldn't being doing myself any favours,no?
i just gave a little for those who like reading between the lines.
remember about the hump busting i did,i believe everyone should do a little
you deserve everything given when you sit back and realise you spent thousands of hours sitting alone in a dark room till 4am in the morning trying to work the whole riddle out while all your mates where out getting on it lol.

@bird
exactly,the traders that don't see it get it all wrong at the wrong time.

funny that bird,to limit risk(which is smart)in the end stiffs us due to IMPROPER stop placement and being on the WRONG SIDE to begin with.
i NEVER enter a trade unless i can see the plays,no see play,no play game.simple.there are guys out there that bet one play a year or even over a few years,but when they bet they know their hand and others hand,and squeeze like hell.
imho the average trader bets to often on plays they no nothing about.

bingo.you were feeding the move bird,along with many others.hell i was probably doing what you did.
you've got the stops which will feed the move and then switched on traders throw fuel on the fire.that's when you get the MASSIVE extended moves,overload of orders being placed that is skewed big on one side.
find balance,then work out what could throw proceedings out of balance.
when you get congestion forming,then wait till the market shows its hand,if you cannot see the hand crystal clear,then fold.

No bird they don't imho.it could be genuine market activity or a little sneaky sneaky from the dealers.
i believe that those with 'large' amounts of capital do push it around to suit there needs though,i mean there not going to move the euro from 1.40-1.50 overnight but they do push it at times.everyone needs an income.we just need to be savy enough to level the numbers out some.

@pip
some get to see it all without needing to read between the lines.for the little guy,you need to read between the lines.the market is a book just sit down and read it for what it is.
i get this feeling that this may be a revelation to many traders too pip.
for some unknown reason we begin our trading careers looking at MA's squiggly line,cross over this,dot that,talk about bull@!#*.
basically this sentence was the turning point for me:"hang about,the markets are where traders place orders,what the hell does this crap have to do with anything".
absolutely jack diddly squat,zilch,zero,nothing.

btw,i couldn't sleep due to a pounding headache.i have taken two codapaine forte,so if i am sounding delirious then somebody slap me hard......really hard lol.

cheers

Whenever I say that, everyone calls me tight, lol!

I'm with you bud, besides which I think there's often more value, and a proud feeling of achievement, in discovering some things for oneself (with maybe a gentle push in the right diection) instead of being handed it all on a plate!

Good job, have one of these, they're free

why sharing this edge?


coz I am greedy bastard, and I have to find other ones since your publishing today.

this is exactly the sort of thing I am looking at. Please can you post some current charts from last week etc.

Thanks J

Thanks for the great thread! This is what is going on as a constant subplot under the surface. I think this type of analysis would be regarded as "technicals driven" price movement.

pipmutt: I'd be interested in seeing a better example chart - or just give time & currency and I'll look it up if you don't have time to post a chart.

A question for you guys: what is the minimum timeframe that you see this type of "orderflow" on or do you see it on all timeframes? It seems to be most prevalent on the timeframes looked at by the most traders (15+minutes) since it takes advantage of the pop and drop type maneuver.

Thanks!

I hear that!

Nice to not have another thread about analyzing lines on the surface of the water.

Thanks!

Signing up.

Lenoxer

Well this is interesting.LOL
A few private PM's overnight with grave concerns of me ruining the only way,apparently,to make money in the market.
There is many ways to make money,all i'm doing is breaking the market down to its most pure form.
If your good enough(quick more so),which some will be,you will ALWAYS be one step ahead regardless of whether someone discloses something or not,it's irrelevant.If your a little on edge atm,then there is a very good chance you aren't good enough or quick enough for this game.
Not everyone will be able to trade,that's life.Some get it,some don't.

Guess what,i very much doubt that what i disclose will change ANYTHING whatsoever.
Do you really think that some little player on a public forum is going to change the dynamics of the global markets,haha,what a cracker.
In fact,there will be those that read this thread and go straight back to trading their MA crossover systems.
Do you know why?
Because you have to be READY to GET IT,otherwise she blows straight over your head,big time.

Guys to be honest,the signs have been there since i walked into the factory many years ago.For the most bizarre reason traders on these boards continue to go OVER and OVER and OVER the same @#!* 100's of times and all they have to do is look up at the sign and read the damn thing.Instead they continue to ask questions and to do the same things continually walking around bumping into each other,it drives me insane.
This is the reason i started this thread.
Everyone is noticing lately that traders on these boards are doing the same material again and again it is starting to get on my nerves,as well as others by the looks of things lol.
I think good old Albert said it best about actions and insanity.I won't quote, you know the deal.

Here's the truth,the more you put on your charts the further away you will be from the truth.period.
But,people just cannot help themselves,they will go ahead and put things on their chart.Now don't get me wrong,i'm not saying they won't make money,but.........

As with everything in life,it's what you DON'T see that makes the difference.It's not the graphics on your chart,it's the WHITE SPACE on your chart.
You need to understand the WHITE SPACE and what's in it.
Understand this and it's game over.

Last night i slept about 5 mins in total,tossing and turning all night,pumping headache,trying to come to an agreement with myself as to what i should disclose and what i shouldn't.
To tell you quite honestly,if your ready,the information i have given is PLENTY enough to see you through.

@FXS
LOL.
As stated above Surf,this is what has driven me to lay some of it out there.......round and round,over and over,c'mon everyone,what the hell?!!
Over the last year or so,whenever i visit FF,i end up saying to myself when going through threads:"oh c'mon guys,not this again.Stephen this is the last time you come here lol".It gets a bit much after awhile.Hence,i spend my time at Shamus's picture thread.Shamus on me
I contribute and only open my mouth when i have something i feel is helpful,otherwise i shut my big one and listen and learn.The market,she speaks to me in tongues and i know her well now.

@FXEZ
Exactly.It's under the surface.Anything underneath cannot be seen.It's something that is not visual,you cannot see it.If you cannot see it and you don't know it,then you won't look for it and you will miss the damn thing EVERY time.
It's what you DON'T SEE that makes ALL the difference.

Picture this:
We all know what's underneath the ocean surface....sharky sharky.Now how do we know that,well someone went diving and saw them or someone unfortunately had a run in with one and created a bad experience.We know they are there(underneath-we don't need to SEE one to know they are there now).
Say you don't know about sharks(not a chance but....).You go swimming right?Guess what,it maybe the last time you get to skinny dip.Not knowing is a KILLER. Say no more.I'm a pilot,same goes with carbon monoxide,if you don't know,google it and you will find out that if your a pilot,not knowing is a killer.Not knowing will cost you big time.

markets move from CONGESTION to TREND and back to CONGESTION.They do this over and over again,never stops.
Timeframe needs to show the dynamic below:
CONGESTION(Balance)>>TREND(Finding new value)>>CONGESTION(New level attained and finding balance again).This is the market,it's what it does.Never stops stops doing it.It's the flow of orders.

@Zkf
LOL
The question you have to ask yourself Z is this:"Am i good enough to adapt by increasing the SPEED at which i process orderflow?"
That's your edge once you 'understand'.It's the SPEED at which you PROCESS ORDERFLOW.Understanding is not your edge.

You need to read between the lines quicker than the next guy,that's all.
People here keep walking around it and won't pick the damn thing up.It's there,pick it up!!!!!LOL
I don't think that there is anything i have experienced in life that has driven me to so much insanity as watching the insane one go round and round.Drives me nuts!!!!!
Anyways,catch you all later.I have some painting around the house to do and i really hate painting.If i am in a bad mood later on,then you know why lol.
Keep the posts up guys,keep searching and you shall find.

Take care peeps.
Cheers
Steve

@pip.

no not tight pip,but close lol
cheers