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C4 Scalping

  • #8,001
  • Aug 26, 2009 7:49am Aug 26, 2009 7:49am
Just started Nitro thread .. 'for SERIOUS traders only" Maybe the thrading discussion can continue there until Edge decides what to do next.
We have a lot of talented people on this thread, hopefully they will continue to share & the serious among us can progress.
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #8,002
  • Aug 26, 2009 7:53am Aug 26, 2009 7:53am
Eventhough its in the recycle bin I still like to show my 2 Nitro trades I made today ... 10 minutes ago or so. (while im writing this that is)

Edge might be a scammer,I dont know,I still like to thank him for the methods he has been teaching in this thread.
Hopefully there will be a place to further work on Nitro.

I would like to thank everyone in this thread for the contributions they made,I wont name anyone since I might forget a few names.

Note: I added the GMACD at the bottom to see how the overall trend is on all the pairs,I think for me personally its a great way to visually see what each pair is doing.
Im also still playing around a bit with arrow settings,not sure what im comfortable with yet.

~Jeroen
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  • #8,003
  • Edited 7:56am Aug 26, 2009 7:54am | Edited 7:56am
4XStar

I think there are enough like-minded traders here who would benefit from a new thread.

I believe that having endured the last couple of weeks we need to refocus on Nitro alone. If the C4 people want to migrate to the other threads already running thats fine, otherwise someone from that group can pick up the baton and run with "C4....The trading continues".

Rather than lumber one individual with the task of running a thread I suggest that we form a loosely knit group of those who are interested and let them as a group police the new thread.

The aim would be for those interested to continue to develop and refine the Nitro method. Lets see what works and what doesn't, concentrate on those aspects that seem to work well, correlation, momentum and suitable times to trade.

Personally, I have learned more in the last month than I did in the last 6 years and I would not like it all to come to a grinding halt.

If you think about it, Edge was the catalyst and he followers of the thread were the providers of the raw material. He never actually provided anything apart from his wisdom, and left it up to the thread readers to explore all the rocky waters until we were able to find a clear path. Sure, he raised the possibility of improving our trading by using Nitro, using the "Less is more" principle and to rely on PA. Correlation and Momentum were suggested by others. I think we have enough experience and enthusiasm between us to take this thing forward.

Starting a new thread is easy, just push the buttons but it needs a hard core of active followers to make it worthwhile.

Anyone having the same sentiments let your voice be heard and if there is enough interest let us go for it.

4XStar. You beat me to it !!!!
  • #8,004
  • Aug 26, 2009 7:54am Aug 26, 2009 7:54am
Quoting Trader222
Hi,

Today 11 trades (10 winners, 1 loser).

Regards.

Attachment

Attachment

Pls let me know how long have you been trading the C4 scalping system and how much practice did you put in before going live on this?

Thanks in advance
  • #8,005
  • Aug 26, 2009 7:58am Aug 26, 2009 7:58am
Excellent, will migrate to the new forum.
Is it going yet??
  • #8,006
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:00am Aug 26, 2009 8:00am
Quoting SlushFund
Don't you understand. It's not the system - it's the trader. The tools are just there to help you understand price action. Everyone talks about systems. Getting into a trade is easy. The difference between success and failure is knowing when not to trade.
I DO use PA primarily and look to the indicators for confirmation. Not sure why you're attacking my post and assuming otherwise. I've only been trading this for a couple of weeks and have not decided if it's a winning strategy for me or not.

In any case, the purpose of my post was to help the thread followers by asking that real results are posted so that we can get a realistic idea of the potential of either strategy and either ascertain if the systems put forth are "scam bait", or if the trader is at fault in some way.

Any system can be put forward and if it doesn't work for an individual, the TRADER can easily be blamed for "doing it wrong" or not being skilled enough. Therein lies the potential for ripping people off. "But if you do it MY way, it works...but there's a price to pay!".

The purpose of my post was to suggest that we verify that there is a system worthy of further time expenditure. I proposed that we post our real results so that we can determine this. If it cannot be done without paying for secrets then it's up to the individual to pay his or her hard earned money.

I'll continue to post my real results until the thread dies, despite being admonished, which is probably what prevents others from posting their real results also.

I'm NOT saying either system does not work. I'm only proposing that people post their real results in a realistic way, so that we can determine if it's worth pursuing. By posting losing trades, we may learn if the trader or the system is at fault.

By only posting winning trades, or winning sessions, and sweeping the losers under the carpet, I don't learn much other than get my hopes up.

But by continually only seeing positive results from posters it suggests to me that 1)....It's a great system, I'll spend more of my valuable time with it..or 2) People are only posting their winners out of fear of embarassment/ridicule/etc. in which case we are not getting anywhere..3) There is a clutch of posters who are in league to scam people by posting only their winning trades or fake results...

So if anyone is losing overall, I'm sure everyone would be interested to know so that we can help or decide whether to move on to something more worthwhile.

All this is being posted, of course, as a result of recent events. The system is now, to my mind, in doubt. I don't wish to continue on a wild goose chase, and would not wish for others to waste their time either.

Just asking that decent, honest folk who aren't afraid of ridicule, post their daily results so that we can either improve our trading, or go find something more profitable to do.

...
  • #8,007
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:02am Aug 26, 2009 8:02am
Good proposal here...but for now i would prefer wait for Edge saying something..
Market is like a puzzle, YOU have to fit the pieces!!
  • #8,008
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:10am Aug 26, 2009 8:10am
Don't be a fool Keith.

It comes to you as a surprise but the fact is that I and many others from the old kbtrading were following you during your Lohad scalping thread days. everyone knew it was you. Twee was reported too about you.

Now you will need another nickname, good luck, we'll find you when you show up.

Quoting lohad
Just checking in and I nearly fell off my chair. Are you serious Artov? Are you for real? You have to be kidding me! Let me know how you came to this conclusion.... Please humor me you moron. Go ahead and read some of my posts under my "Lohad" name...... just check them out. I WISH I could be half as witty, half as articulate and use have the proper grammer that Edge uses.

Get real dude. I have spent the life of this thread posting two other systems that could not sniff the ankles of this one. Oh I know it was a front to divert you .

Paranoia...
  • #8,009
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:14am Aug 26, 2009 8:14am
Quoting artov
Don't be a fool Keith.

It comes to you as a surprise but the fact is that I and many others from the old kbtrading were following you during your Lohad scalping thread days. everyone knew it was you. Twee was reported too about you.

Now you will need another nickname, good luck, we'll find you when you show up.

Haha this is funny.

What is KB Trading? Let me know I will check it out. Can you please tell me if I am Edge, why are we both shown as on this thread at the same time.

You putz. Can you me if I ever offered managed accounts or had something to sell on the my threads? can you.

Wow.
  • #8,010
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:18am Aug 26, 2009 8:18am
Quoting takingthepip
I DO use PA primarily and look to the indicators for confirmation....
Takingthepip you have to start posting your charts and explain why you entered thats the only way someone can help you, I am using Nitro but I am sure there are C4 traders who will look at your failed entries.
  • #8,011
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:28am Aug 26, 2009 8:28am
Hi Slash.

If you have a system based on a bad R:R ratio and going for a high win ratio, it means once you will get a loss. How many wins were wiped out by 1 loser is the question.

Maybe a better question is, how will it affect your emotions when you work hard for those pips and you lose them all or most of them in a trade.

If you want to prevent market noise taking out your stoploss, you will need to put your SL very far away thus making your R:R ratio even worse. Probably such a system will give you many many winners in a row, but once it goes wrong and hits your stoploss, then you lose bigtime.

I know one person from this forum who had apx. 200 wins in a row, but then one day it went against him and he suffered a major loss wiping out a hell lot of winners. He blamed the system for it and now he modified it.

I for myself can speak also from a lot of experience that it's difficult. Nothing is impossible, but very difficult for the long run.

I think many professionals would agree, yesterday I was listening to a conference call by some professional traders.
One of them said "One of the biggest mistakes beginners make is a bad Risk:Reward ratio, I always tell them to look for a R:R ratio of at least 1:2,5"


Quoting SlushFund
Artov, what are you talking about?? R:R ratio is irrelevant unless you factor in the win:loss ratio. If you have a high W:L you can take more losses with a high R:R.

What noise? It's called the market. Start to think about probability.
  • #8,012
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:31am Aug 26, 2009 8:31am
Quoting takingthepip
In any case, the purpose of my post was to help the thread followers by asking that real results are posted so that we can get a realistic idea of the potential of either strategy and either ascertain if the systems put forth are "scam bait", or if the trader is at fault in some way.

Any system can be put forward and if it doesn't work for an individual, the TRADER can easily be blamed for "doing it wrong" or not being skilled enough. Therein lies the potential for ripping people off. "But if you do it MY way, it works...but there's a price...
I for one cannot make this system (C4 or NITRO) work!

For me it is a simple matter of the risk/reward ratio and probability. The probability is that YOU WILL HAVE MORE THAN 1 LOSING TRADE IN A ROW.

If you are risking 25-30 pips to make 5 (2.5 - 3% to make 0.5%) you need 5 or 6 wining trades for every loser! If you get 3 losers in a row (75-90 pips or 7.5 - 9%), how can you recover? You need to make 15 -18 further wining trades, in a row, to recover the draw down! What are the chances of having further losing trades in those 15 - 18??

I DON'T THINK A PROFESSIONAL TRADER WOULD EVER TRADE A SYSTEM LIKE THIS! It would simply not be profesional to do so.

Why is it that we should reset our accounts every day, win or loose? Is it so that we never see the systems profit or loss over a long time frame? And it is a system that cannot be backtested!!!

Sorry, this system is not for me.

Cheers,
John.
  • #8,013
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:33am Aug 26, 2009 8:33am
You're very funny, Edge was the whole time off, now after revealing the truth about you 2 being the same person he suddenly comes online.

Sure I can explain it, it's not that hard, you just log in through 2 different browsers. Firefox and IE for example.

Never done it myself lol, but I assume ForexFactory will say that there are 2 connections from 1 IP address. Even when using 2 different browsers. In that case you go to a proxy site or program and log in through the proxy IP. Very simple.

Quoting lohad
Can you please tell me if I am Edge, why are we both shown as on this thread at the same time.
  • #8,014
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:36am Aug 26, 2009 8:36am
Quoting takingthepip
I DO use PA primarily and look to the indicators for confirmation. Not sure why you're attacking my post....
I'm certainly not attacking you, just expressing my opinion. If you felt otherwise then my apologies. Here's my take on it. I think scalping is quite different to trading on higher time frames. I trade one hour charts and I'm not really so concerned with PA. I'm looking for patterns, S/R levels, trendline breaks etc. But on a M5 or M1 chart looking to capture 5 pips, it's more about really having a feel for what price is doing.

You question whether C4 or Nitro is any good, but if I said I traded naked charts, no indicators, just candles, you wouldn't say that was a system would you. If it works, it comes down more to screen time (and lots of it) to become practiced in knowing exactly when to buy or sell for a few pips. But add Trix and an MA, and it suddenly becomes a "system". Then the inevitable question arises. Does this system work?

I don't trade naked candle charts because I find that having some tools helps, but it's not a system. Well maybe until now. After playing with Nitro I am beginning to see that you only need the renko bars, PA and correlation- nothing else.

If that's the case then perhaps nothing more can be taught about it. It's now all down to individual practice and screen time.

And I never even got scammed.
  • #8,015
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:37am Aug 26, 2009 8:37am
Quoting Pipo
Takingthepip you have to start posting your charts and explain why you entered thats the only way someone can help you, I am using Nitro but I am sure there are C4 traders who will look at your failed entries.
Thanks. I've not suggested that I'm losing or winning so won't post any charts just yet. Just breakeven at the moment. Have only been trading C4 for a couple of weeks in various styles. Have stuck to the 4 lots x 5 pips method for a few days and will stick with that for a week or so and see how it goes.

I agree that charts should be posted if a trader is having problems being consistently profitable. Too soon for me to say if I'm winning or losing overall as it's 50/50. Will wait until a pattern of losing emerges before posting charts AND would prefer to wait and see if there is a thread to post charts to before putting in the effort!

  • #8,016
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:38am Aug 26, 2009 8:38am
Quoting artov
You're very funny, Edge was the whole time off, now after revealing the truth about you 2 being the same person he suddenly comes online.

Sure I can explain it, it's not that hard, you just log in through 2 different browsers. Firefox and IE for example.

Never done it myself lol, but I assume ForexFactory will say that there are 2 connections from 1 IP address. Even when using 2 different browsers. In that case you go to a proxy site or program and log in through the proxy IP. Very simple.
I private investigation is not your profession. If it is, please find another talent now. You are failing miserably.

Please Twee, can look into this and tell the forum your findings as I do not like having my name dragged through the mud?

Artov, buddy I feel bad for you.

Lohad
  • #8,017
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:40am Aug 26, 2009 8:40am
Quoting Chris_B
Good proposal here...but for now i would prefer wait for Edge saying something..
Obviously Edge/Expat will be reading this thread (perhaps anonymously)

If he says nothing....that says something

There are a few separate issues.

1/ Is C4/Nitro a viable strategy, I do hope that people move over to a new thread and explore this
2/ Why did Edge not right away admit that he created a new alias, and explain why

It will be veeeeery interesting if we hear from Edge again.
If not, well....perhaps we will hear from him again....in a new incarnation.

PGPB
  • #8,018
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:43am Aug 26, 2009 8:43am
Quoting johny pip
I for one cannot make this system (C4 or NITRO) work!
More practice. More screen time. I didn't take every trade today, but the four I did take were all winners. Is that me or the system?

Read Jessie Livermore's autobiography about his tape reading days in the pit. No computers then.
  • #8,019
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:45am Aug 26, 2009 8:45am
Quoting artov
Hi Slash.

If you have a system based on a bad R:R ratio and going for a high win ratio, it means once you will get a loss. How many wins were wiped out by 1 loser is the question.
Let your profits run and cut your losses short. Trading is a game of probability. Nothing more, nothing less.
  • #8,020
  • Aug 26, 2009 8:47am Aug 26, 2009 8:47am
Quoting SlushFund
More practice. More screen time. I didn't take every trade today, but the four I did take were all winners. Is that me or the system?

Read Jessie Livermore's autobiography about his tape reading days in the pit. No computers then.
Livermore was never in the pit. He worked from his own office and also at first from his broker's office.

I have an original 1940 copy of his book (Black with the Gold Seal, Livermore Market Seal)
"How To Trade In Stocks"

With the Hand Written charts in the back it is 111 pages
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