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C4 Scalping

  • #7,481
  • Aug 21, 2009 10:37am Aug 21, 2009 10:37am
Quoting 4xtrader2
I only traded the EJ today. My first trade was in the Asian session and I didn't even have time to set a stop loss and profit target. The price action was moving so quickly that I simply closed it with a 13 pip profit. Three of my trades were during the European Session of which two were in the market less than a minute each before they hit my profit target. The other one I got out of before it hit my profit target because I saw that price action suddenly stopped and fortunately I got out because the price reversed direction. My next trade I got...
Early EJ trades were way post signal but still managed to come through. That would be a goal attained effort.

Camouflage colors background has always been intriguing.

Regards.
  • #7,482
  • Aug 21, 2009 10:42am Aug 21, 2009 10:42am
Quoting Chris_B
Thanks for your words...i'm really at a point where I never tought to get...thanks to you!!
And I know that i can become more more more proficient with day after day efforts...the road is long...

I've traded for years stocks and options with mixed results...more bad results that good ones...and now for the 1st time in my life i really believe in trading and i believe in myself ability to learn and to do this...

Waiting ansious for the new thread...

Far behind from you but committed to get there. Besides practicing Nitro trading, now reading the paid version of "Trading in the Zone". As i read, Edge's teachings make more and more sense.
Regards
  • #7,483
  • Aug 21, 2009 10:47am Aug 21, 2009 10:47am
Here is an update on my trading. Still going for it until the market closes. Hey its free right?
I have a long way to go to even come close to Chris's 8 days in a row. I think consistency is the key and "days in a row" mean a lot more than "trades in a row".

Cheers
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: C4_barebone_livetrades4.jpg Size: 236 KB
If it backtests good run it live!
  • #7,484
  • Aug 21, 2009 11:45am Aug 21, 2009 11:45am
Quoting Edgetrader
Early EJ trades were way post signal but still managed to come through. That would be a goal attained effort.

Camouflage colors background has always been intriguing.

Regards.
The trades I took were based more on observable price action than signals. I do understand that we have rules which include tried and true indicators which provide reliable signals and I try to follow those to the best of my ability. However, I often sit and observe price action to gain understanding and when I see it so favorable I cannot resist picking up the money on the table. Eight out of nine of my trades were in the market less than a minute. I think that in itself is a testament to observable (and favorable) price action.

Prior to joining this thread and becoming an Edge student, my focus was on S/R and news. Price action is admittedly best around news events as witnessed in the EJ today. If we are to get used to observing price action in its natural environment, then we need to observe it at different times and note how it behaves. Simple observation tells us that news events are prime examples of rapid price action. With Yen based currencies, it also seems that price action tends to oscillate around whole, half and quarter numbers. Thus if price drops below a whole number, it is often an opportunity to pick up a +5 profit on both the piercing of S/R and the retracement.

Price Action has the components of price, time, and volume. Beyond that it has the indirect component of perceived value assigned by the traders entering/exiting the market which drives the price action. On a 5 minute chart or a Renko Bar chart, price action is "masked" or filtered from its natural state that can be observed on a tick chart. During the formation of the candle or brick, price will move up and down the whole range defined by the candle or brick but we won't know how many times it has oscillated within that range.

I think that you and others have identified that the probability of price action being sufficient to make a profit is greatest on price reversals defined by the bricks, candles, moving averages, and other indicators we are using. From observation I can admit that the probability of a profitable trade is higher during that time versus mid-trend during a news event because of the uncertainty of the range of the price move. Without a lot of work on a spreadsheet of the price data, I cannot definitively qualify my observations with hard and fast results so I only offer this as an observation.

Bottom line, our understanding of price action has to become intuitive through repeated observation to qualify and validate our assumptions as stated by pillar #4 of our core beliefs "An edge is nothing more than an indication of a higher probability of one thing happening over another".

I will continue to focus on price action and the opportunities it presents to us.

BTW, the "Camouflage" background is nothing more than the different market sessions (Asian, European, and American) and their overlaps. It helps me observe recent and past price activity. (i-sessions.mq4)
4XTrader2
  • #7,485
  • Aug 21, 2009 12:01pm Aug 21, 2009 12:01pm
Looks cool!
So it's normal C4 it seems? Are you not using any S/L?

Quoting fxspeedster
Here is an update on my trading. Still going for it until the market closes. Hey its free right?
I have a long way to go to even come close to Chris's 8 days in a row. I think consistency is the key and "days in a row" mean a lot more than "trades in a row".

Cheers
  • #7,486
  • Edited 7:18pm Aug 21, 2009 12:39pm | Edited 7:18pm
Quoting Edgetrader
I agree with what Susan states here. It will not happen today, however, as time goes by those working the MT4 Nitro plan will come to this realization also. The more screen time you can avail yourself of, the more you will become used to these bricks which provide a bit smoother overall look at the market PA.

This is the same thing you dealt with when first starting with bar or candlestick charts. Took a while to figure out your way there also.

There have been some good postings in the last 8 hours.

A little while back, I ran a small exercise...

Never was one for idle chit-chat.
Regardless of whether in a professional environment or privately,solitary is the life of a trader, really.
I must say this, don't know where you find the strength, sir.
Being treated like a piñata in a public forum no less.
Keep up the good.
'Brewski's' are on me.

Again, my best to you and yours.

J
  • #7,487
  • Aug 21, 2009 12:54pm Aug 21, 2009 12:54pm
Edge,

I believe your teachings have brought us to the edge of the cliff. That being to remove all indicators and trade what we now have learnt with regards to Nitro and Renko

DaveW says it best. With the 3 pairs showing a move and the 4th lagging slightly how can we not be getting near enough 100% by taking a measly 5 pips in the direction of the others.

Trix is great to show a change in direction but do our eyes not do the same thing? By watching the screen with the chosen 4 pairs on it is it not clear to all where the price will go.

There are times when there isn't great correlation between the pairs. How do we deal with this? DONT TRADE. Go to the pub, beach, watch tv...etc. Come back and have a look, are the 4 now behaving the same? Is one lagging slightly? Are YOU confident you KNOW what that pairs price will do? 5 pips is all that is needed.

1 lot at 5 pips x4 or 4 lots at 5 pips x1 YOU CHOOSE.

I cant see the need for arrows, signals, beeps, alarms etc. 2 eyes and the trust in my own understanding is surely all that is needed.

Edge, thank you for getting rid of the negative posters. I think it is clear that there is a core group that believe in what is being taught and that are willing and eager to help each other to get there.

Am looking forward for the next set, although cannot imagine what else is left to teach.

Thanks
Waddij
  • #7,488
  • Aug 21, 2009 12:59pm Aug 21, 2009 12:59pm
Quoting waddij
Edge,

I believe your teachings have brought us to the edge of the cliff. That being to remove all indicators and trade what we now have learnt with regards to Nitro and Renko

DaveW says it best. With the 3 pairs showing a move and the 4th lagging slightly how can we not be getting near enough 100% by taking a measly 5 pips in the direction of the others.

Trix is great to show a change in direction but do our eyes not do the same thing? By watching the screen with the chosen 4 pairs on it is it not clear to all where the price will go.

There...
The answer is simple. Have a correlation indicator that shows you real time correlation calculation between pairs. The moment you see correlation drift off, stop trading. When it comes back start again. I've seen few real time correlation indicators for up to 6 pairs. You may want to google it to find it somewhere.

Good luck!
If it backtests good run it live!
  • #7,489
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:07pm Aug 21, 2009 1:07pm
Page one is now updated for the final time. All reference to Nitro trading material has been removed so that only those interested in C4 will have the material to do so.

Will work diligently on the new thread front page.

Maybe we gain some renewed energy next week.

Then again, C4 boot training was mild compared to what is coming with the Nitro thread. Already have several 50 cal. machine guns oiled and ready. (Plenty of room in the 'ignore' section).

We will have an opportunity to stay on subject and focus efforts there. No new indicators, no TP/SL philosophical discussions, no trading plan opinion variance, just solid trading efforts at preset goals daily. Will repeat training until exhaustion overwhelms. Gear Up!

Regards.
  • #7,490
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:14pm Aug 21, 2009 1:14pm
Quoting waddij
Edge,

I believe your teachings have brought us to the edge of the cliff. That being to remove all indicators and trade what we now have learnt with regards to Nitro and Renko

DaveW says it best. With the 3 pairs showing a move and the 4th lagging slightly how can we not be getting near enough 100% by taking a measly 5 pips in the direction of the others.

Trix is great to show a change in direction but do our eyes not do the same thing? By watching the screen with the chosen 4 pairs on it is it not clear to all where the price will go.

There...
Well, if you want simple PA trading, it is on the way. And there will be no 500 page threads figuring things out.

Should take 4-5 pages to get going, the rest is simple trading efforts posted as chart shots and we gain proficiency from there. Like I said, whether the thread has 5 or 500 followers matters not. Time to trade a base set of principles and get crackin.

ONE indi ONLY and correlation, either by visual or indi as was suggested.

I LIKE VISUAL AND LIVE!!

Have a good weekend.
  • #7,491
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:15pm Aug 21, 2009 1:15pm
Quoting 4xtrader2
The trades I took were based more on observable price action than signals. I do understand that we have rules which include tried and true indicators which provide reliable signals and I try to follow those to the best of my ability. However, I often sit and observe price action to gain understanding and when I see it so favorable I cannot resist picking up the money on the table. Eight out of nine of my trades were in the market less than a minute. I think that in itself is a testament to observable (and favorable) price action.

Prior to joining...
Good posting.

You will enjoy Nitro immensely.

Regards.
  • #7,492
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:23pm Aug 21, 2009 1:23pm
Quoting Edgetrader
Well, if you want simple PA trading, it is on the way. And there will be no 500 page threads figuring things out.

Should take 4-5 pages to get going, the rest is simple trading efforts posted as chart shots and we gain proficiency from there. Like I said, whether the thread has 5 or 500 followers matters not. Time to trade a base set of principles and get crackin.

ONE indi ONLY and correlation, either by visual or indi as was suggested.

I LIKE VISUAL AND LIVE!!

Have a good weekend.
Bring it on...... Sir.
  • #7,493
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:32pm Aug 21, 2009 1:32pm
Quoting jacson101
Never was one for idle chit-chat.
Regardless of whether in a professional environment or privately,solitary is the life of a trader, really.
I must say this, don't know where you find the strength, sir.
Being treating like a piñata in a public forum no less.
Keep up the good.
'Brewski's' are on me.

Again, my best to you and yours.

J
Thanks.

We are soon to form a relatively tight little group I believe. First effort at thread operation was a self graded 'C' effort. Good learning process for myself also.

FF community was able to benefit to some extent and that is always a good thing. Time to work on trading only though. Will really ramp up the trading efforts part tremendously. The 75% mental trading aspect is going to front burner now. A month of trading until one drops should be good enough to start the mental transformaton process into pure probability theorem trading. It should be BORING.

However, I am not an ogre. While I will be a tad demanding I think it should be enjoyable to some extent also. This is a pretty big deal to some.
Wonder if folks can just substitute trading here and there into the following and make sense of it all.


The Mayonnaise Jar

When things in your life seem, Almost too much to handle,
When 24 Hours in a day is not enough,
Remember the mayonnaise jar and 2 cups of coffee.

A professor stood before his trading class
And had some items in front of him.
When the class began, wordlessly,
He picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar
And proceeded to fill it with golf balls.

He then asked the students, If the jar was full.
They agreed that it was.

The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured
them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly.
The pebbles rolled into the open Areas between the golf balls.

He then asked The students again
If the jar was full.. They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand
And poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else.
He asked once more if the jar was full. The students responded
With an unanimous 'yes.'

The professor then produced Two cups of coffee from under the table
And poured the entire contents Into the jar, effectively
Filling the Empty space between the sand.
The students laughed.

'Now,' said the professor, As the laughter subsided,
'I want you to recognize that This jar represents your life.
The golf balls are the important things - God, family,
children, health, Friends, and Favorite passions
Things that if everything else was lost
And only they remained, Your life would still be full.

The pebbles are the other things that matter Like your job (trading), house, and car.

The sand is everything else --
The small stuff.

'If you put the sand into the jar first,' He continued,
'there is no room for The pebbles or the golf balls.
The same goes for life.

If you spend all your time And energy on the small stuff (like indicator envy and huge pip counts),
You will never have room for The things that are
Important to you.

So...

Pay attention to the things That are critical to your happiness.
Play With your children.
Take time to get medical checkups.
Take your partner out to dinner.

There will always be time
To clean the house and fix the disposal.

'Take care of the golf balls first --
The things that really matter.
Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.'

One of the students raised her hand
And inquired what the coffee represented.

The professor smiled.
'I'm glad you asked'.

It just goes to show you that no matter how full your life may seem,
there's always room for A couple of cups of coffee with a friend.'


Highest Regards.
  • #7,494
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:40pm Aug 21, 2009 1:40pm
This is an awesome point that, like the important things in life, to often is forgotten!

Great weekend to you!

Quoting Edgetrader
Thanks.

We are soon to form a relatively tight little group I believe. First effort at thread operation was a self graded 'C' effort. Good learning process for myself also.

FF community was able to benefit to some extent and that is always a good thing. Time to work on trading only though. Will really ramp up the trading efforts part tremendously. The 75% mental trading aspect is going to front burner now. A month of trading until one drops should be good enough to start the mental transformaton process into pure probability theorem trading....
Read the entire thread BEFORE you ask questions!
  • #7,495
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:43pm Aug 21, 2009 1:43pm
That's what i was talking about. Now imagine you could 'see or hear ' these things happen in more than one pair at a time - what do you think would happen to your accout balance ?


Quoting 4xtrader2
However, I often sit and observe price action to gain understanding and when I see it so favorable I cannot resist picking up the money on the table. Eight out of nine of my trades were in the market less than a minute
  • #7,496
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:48pm Aug 21, 2009 1:48pm
Edge, DX, Chris and all other contributors, congratulations on reaching and completing 500 pages of very informative and life changing material! Really looking forward to the Renko nitro thread.

Best wishes,

CatPreacher
  • #7,497
  • Aug 21, 2009 1:53pm Aug 21, 2009 1:53pm
Quoting Edgetrader
Thanks.

We are soon to form a relatively tight little group I believe. First effort at thread operation was a self graded 'C' effort. Good learning process for myself also.

FF community was able to benefit to some extent and that is always a good thing. Time to work on trading only though. Will really ramp up the trading efforts part tremendously. The 75% mental trading aspect is going to front burner now. A month of trading until one drops should be good enough to start the mental transformaton process into pure probability theorem trading....
how cool is that? Cant wait for the coffee.

Thanks for everything Edge.

Wish you all a happy and relaxing weekend.

Nick
  • #7,498
  • Aug 21, 2009 2:18pm Aug 21, 2009 2:18pm
Quoting tex
That's what i was talking about. Now imagine you could 'see or hear ' these things happen in more than one pair at a time - what do you think would happen to your accout balance ?
I've created a lot of programs and indicators over the last several years and most of them have completely gone by the wayside. Having been a computer software architect for the last 13 years in the trading industry (before getting laid off 4 months ago), I have learned one main thing about computers: Computers are Stupid!, the programs that are created for computers are stupid! They only do what you program into them. They cannot think! The finer things, the nuances that the eye can see and the mind can perceive, calculate, and respond to are infinite compared to what the computer can do.

So while what you suggest might be cool and could be programmed and may provide value to someone, the burning question in my mind is, why? It takes my eye and mind microseconds to correlate the 6 currency pairs on my screen and judge whether I am going to enter a trade or not. My account balance reflects it this week even with all my struggles trading.

I don't mean to take the wind out of your sails but I believe that keeping the mind disciplined, sharp, and focused will outperform any computer on such a task. I also think that simplicity is not based on replacing my thinking tasks with another indicator. Others will probably disagree with me and that is OK. It's just not for me.
4XTrader2
  • #7,499
  • Aug 21, 2009 2:23pm Aug 21, 2009 2:23pm
We are on the same side. I agree with you - watching PA and seeing what is going on is king. I just think it would be a little bit more comfortable if one gets some help of his stupid little helper under his desk (no not the dog lol)..

Quoting 4xtrader2
I've created a lot of programs and indicators over the last several years and most of them have completely gone by the wayside. Having been a computer software architect for the last 13 years in the trading industry (before getting laid off 4 months ago), I have learned one main thing about computers: Computers are Stupid!, the programs that are created for computers are stupid! They only do what you program into them. They cannot think! The finer things, the nuances that the eye can see and the mind can perceive, calculate, and respond...
  • #7,500
  • Aug 21, 2009 2:25pm Aug 21, 2009 2:25pm
Quoting Edgetrader
Thanks.

We are soon to form a relatively tight little group I believe. First effort at thread operation was a self graded 'C' effort. Good learning process for myself also.

...

Highest Regards.
I want to personally thank you for your efforts in sharing the C4 strategy and the time it took to monitor and mediate this thread. A lot of work on your part unselfishly given. I am an avid student and can't wait to take the next steps with Nitro and Chernobyl.

Rock on, Dude!

Hope to personally buy you that cup of coffee some day.
Thanks again.
4XTrader2
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