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C4 Scalping

  • #7,341
  • Aug 20, 2009 10:19am Aug 20, 2009 10:19am
Edge,

I was considering the 2% issue and would like to ask the following:
Let's say you have an account of $5000 (so 2% is $100). When your account doubles due to Nitro's success to $10000 then 2% is 200. I am assuming that you double your lot size to be able to achieve the amount with similar amount of pips. Is this correct? What about in between $5000 and $10000 if you don't have fractional lot's?

Regards and thanks to all contributors.
  • #7,342
  • Aug 20, 2009 10:23am Aug 20, 2009 10:23am
Quoting Soondoock
Hello Edge, do you remember your setups you proposed in paul's thread which included LWMA 14. As soon as I can see that price crosses LWMA I wait till the brick closes and open trade on the next brick with the same direction. It it easy to earn +5 like this, even + 10. And it seems that using this setup helps to see the bid move and filter small one.
Soondoock,

Funny you should say this because I am trading the same idea but with HMA 8,3,3 .

Edge, any comments on these observations????
  • #7,343
  • Aug 20, 2009 10:28am Aug 20, 2009 10:28am
Quoting tex
Here's how i do it :

My Daily Pip goal is 30 wonderful good lookin' green Pips in my Bag.

I always set TP +5 ad SL -30P. If i hit this OVERALL SL i stop trading and start the next day again. I simply take this as a Loosing Day.
'Overall' means that if i am after one or more trades in the green zone and i hit a -30SL then there is still room to trade because i still got some pips left for my overall SL -30P. Worst case would be if i hit the -30P with my very first trade of the day,but this didn't happen so far. I would stop trading after that...
[/quote]

That's fine Tex, but if you hit the -30 SL it means the next day you have 6x +5 TP to make up just to be breakeven. Which means that you need 8 winning trades in a row to be done for the day at +2%. Doable? Perhaps yes.. Difficult? Very much so.. To me the key is to enter timely so that you make your +5 very fast without an excessive SL. If you base your entries exclusively on price movement like has been suggested here lately, I think this is very achievable. If you use indis, you chance it to get in late and your SL has a higher chance of being hit. If you make an analogy to a soccer game, you be the best team but starting the game 0-6 against a weaker team is challenging. You might win at the end 8-6 but the game will not be an easy one..

Cheers
If it backtests good run it live!
  • #7,344
  • Aug 20, 2009 10:48am Aug 20, 2009 10:48am
Sure, i am looking very closely at the PA and its velocity - i talked about it a few pages ago (would still love to get an indi for it ).
Many of us have noticed this now - PA Velocity high = High Probability Trades..
U are right, if i hit the -30 SL i will need the next day to get it back.But like i said the high hitrate of C4/Nitro should prevent this in the most cases and in fact it did till now. U know i don't have long term statistics about that. Just started to be consistent, will see what future brings.Am getting more and more confident in that though.

Quote
That's fine Tex, but if you hit the -30 SL it means the next day you have 6x +5 TP to make up just to be breakeven. Which means that you need 8 winning trades in a row to be done for the day at +2%. Doable? Perhaps yes.. Difficult? Very much so.. To me the key is to enter timely so that you make your +5 very fast without an excessive SL. If you base your entries exclusively on price movement like has been suggested here lately, I think this is very achievable. If you use indis, you chance it to get in late and your SL has a higher chance of...
  • #7,345
  • Aug 20, 2009 10:54am Aug 20, 2009 10:54am
Quoting kostas1
Edge,

I was considering the 2% issue and would like to ask the following:
Let's say you have an account of $5000 (so 2% is $100). When your account doubles due to Nitro's success to $10000 then 2% is 200. I am assuming that you double your lot size to be able to achieve the amount with similar amount of pips. Is this correct? What about in between $5000 and $10000 if you don't have fractional lot's?

Regards and thanks to all contributors.
That is a personal choice.

The thread is intended as a way to augment existing wages or create a wage for those caught up in the economic turmoil.

As such, I do not operate on an account growth basis and therefore do not increase lot size except for implementation of a 'less is more' strategy.

I believe it prudent personally to trade 1 standard lot for every $6k or so in available trading capital. Also, I do not use fractional lot sizing. Each trader has to perform their own risk assessment test. It is your money. Use it as you deem prudent.

Accounts do not double based on Nitro's success. Those who use such to seek account growth realize such based upon THEIR success in using a decent trading plan and placing trades that are well thought out and perform according to their design.

The plan is a blueprint only. It is the trader themselves who utilize the best tools available to build a business from the blueprint.

Regards.
  • #7,346
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:00am Aug 20, 2009 11:00am
Quoting kostas1
Soondoock,

Funny you should say this because I am trading the same idea but with HMA 8,3,3 .

Edge, any comments on these observations????
PA crosses a MA all the time.

However, it had better have some momentum or it means nothing.

MA is just a visual guide telling one to pay attention.

If you choose to trade based upon one indicator, then momentum will be far superior to any MA. Especially when trying to utilize a scalping methodology. PA crossing a MA only 'signals' a potential directional change. Momentum will 'proof it up'.

Regards.
  • #7,347
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:16am Aug 20, 2009 11:16am
Quoting kodflakes
Paul
I think EA's could work I know that there is one out there. Ive been testing them for about a year now Taking the refund from the failed one and trying a new one. I view it as an employee, if you manage them right then they can make you money but if you do not know enough about forex then how can you manage a forex employee. Then it is really tough to find good help as well.
how do you define failed that is a subjective opinion is it not?
sure it can b very tempting to uss a robot they can do intricate things in milla seconds but its just not the reality is all im saying. they should be plan b for any trader regardless of the your trading ability. they never worked for me in fairness last year was the weirdest year in eu history they all lost money for me for a long as i could bear stand to use them.
  • #7,348
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:18am Aug 20, 2009 11:18am
Quoting wannaberich
Hi Doc,

i wish i were where you are right now. you just have 15% to go! (75 to 90)

i have seen your posts and you have very very consistent results, dude!

you are one of the guys driving me forward. i am counting on you

but we will get there.

since i have seen such good results this last 2 weeks how do you say you have 4win 1 loss?

good pipping
Thanks for the kind words.

Let me clarify a few things. First, do the math on the percentages. In order to get from 75% winners to 90% winners you have to cut the number of losing trades by 60%! That's a tall order.

And as far as your last question goes, the 75% is derived from detailed back testing over the last two weeks on EJ, not my actual performance. My actual performance has been on C4 for the most part where I can read PA on a candlestick chart. A lot of gut feel.

The Nitro back test was done on Renko for EJ. So far I have not been able to read PA using Renko very well. And if all of the signals are taken, you end up with 75% winners. I've tried limiting the trades to the "best times", I've tried only trading with the trend, I've tried different indicators. Everything I have tried results in the same results, 65% to 75% winners. And I've also tried altering the stop loss. None of it seems to matter. With 75% winners and a 4:1 RR, it is a losing system.

So unless there is something that I'm missing - and obviously there is - Nitro is going to be put on hold. I've tried everything I can think of to make it work. I'm going to stick to my C4-like trading plan for now. Unless, of course, Edge gives us a little more info to help us along with Nitro. He obviously is making it work somehow.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Doc
  • #7,349
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:20am Aug 20, 2009 11:20am
How Not to Trade:

The trade list below shows a profit. Great! You say... But really this is a study in how NOT to trade. What do you mean? Well, quite simply, first, don't trade when you are distracted; second, don't trade to get your money back from the market; third, don't trade against the rules.

What started out as a nice trading day - first trade was a small win, became distracted when my son called from Japan. Trying to talk and trade cost me 3 losses because I wasn't paying attention to the signals. After those trades, my wife called from work. So now I'm down and frustrated and wanting to get my money back from the market. Note what I did: I over traded. I increased lot size. I forgot about stops (both profit and stop loss). I traded against the trend. I broke all the known rules.

The only thing I have to say for myself is I innovated, adapted, and overcame and blew the hell out of the pips! Sorry Edge, I was determined to make this a winning day. I couldn't post the charts because at times I honestly was watching the tick charts to place trades for ten lots.

As punishment, I am going out biking on my favorite "hard ride". It makes pushups seem like a vacation in Disney World. Will be back later and check for fallout.

Happy Trading
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4XTrader2
  • #7,350
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:23am Aug 20, 2009 11:23am
Quoting DXTrade
5 times +5
MANUALLY
Done for today ...
that looks excelent Dx nice trading! im mght start renko week after next even if im not prfitable with c4 yet!
  • #7,351
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:31am Aug 20, 2009 11:31am
Quoting DocPMD
Thanks for the kind words.


With 75% winners and a 4:1 RR, it is a losing system.

So unless there is something that I'm missing - and obviously there is - Nitro is going to be put on hold. I've tried everything I can think of to make it work. I'm going to stick to my C4-like trading plan for now. Unless, of course, Edge gives us a little more info to help us along with Nitro. He obviously is making it work somehow.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Doc
That is why C4 was provided. Is a good plan to work with to develop PA observation skills. If that is working for you, then by all means stick with it.

Nitro, like scalping, is not for everyone. To me, it is a natural progression from C4. As long as you are pleased trading one over the other, that is all that matters.

Hard to pack years of trading into a month old thread. Still think it relatively easy to trade the MT4 Nitro though.

Another very good setup. Very little drawdown, decent momentum and GY confirming. CY and AY went flat which is fine. Tell tale sign they are looking to follow the pack.

Regards.
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  • #7,352
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:34am Aug 20, 2009 11:34am
Wow now that are many trades at ONE single day - indeed a little bit of overtrading i would say isn't it ? :nerd:


Quoting 4xtrader2
How Not to Trade:

The trade list below shows a profit. Great! You say... But really this is a study in how NOT to trade. What do you mean? Well, quite simply, first, don't trade when you are distracted; second, don't trade to get your money back from the market; third, don't trade against the rules.

What started out as a nice trading day - first trade was a small win, became distracted when my son called from Japan. Trying to talk and trade cost me 3 losses because I wasn't paying attention to the signals. After those trades, my wife called...
  • #7,353
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:39am Aug 20, 2009 11:39am
Quoting 4xtrader2
How Not to Trade:

The trade list below shows a profit. Great! You say... But really this is a study in how NOT to trade. What do you mean? Well, quite simply, first, don't trade when you are distracted; second, don't trade to get your money back from the market; third, don't trade against the rules.

What started out as a nice trading day - first trade was a small win, became distracted when my son called from Japan. Trying to talk and trade cost me 3 losses because I wasn't paying attention to the signals. After those trades, my wife called...
No pushups, waste of time.

One week toothbrush cleaning latrines is in order though.

What a complete disintegration of discipline.

Very ugly and amateurish.

You have been with this long enough to know I was not going to issue a 3 day pass for this. Could just as easily blew the account into oblivion.

NO SOUP FOR YOU!
  • #7,354
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:41am Aug 20, 2009 11:41am
Quoting Edgetrader

Very methodical approach. Am really glad to see a devout FAITH in a trading plan start to develop.

Clearly understands the potential draw-down issue but also clearly understands the high hit rate compensating factor.

Not sure on when exactly your trades are taken, but see that each and every time you have BEGUN trading in a session, the first trade must have been a successful one.

That alone merits some real thought.

Nice Tex.

Highest Regards.
Edge,

I've done the math on the "draw down issue" and "high hit rate compensating factor" from a theoretical mathematical basis. With Nitro, and the hours and hours of testing I've done, I can't seem to get away from a 20 pip SL or greater without having a large impact on the "high hit rate" (i.e. smaller stops decrease win percentage dramatically).

So with 5 pip TP and 20 pip SL, the threshold for the "high hit rate" is around 85% winners. If you can get to 90% it is a slam dunk system.

I can't get over 75% no matter what I do. Can you throw us a bone to help us get to the 90%? I've exhausted everything I know. I'm not asking for "something for nothing". I've put in the time. Just run out of ideas.

Doc
  • #7,355
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:41am Aug 20, 2009 11:41am
Quoting Edgetrader
PA crosses a MA all the time.

However, it had better have some momentum or it means nothing.

MA is just a visual guide telling one to pay attention.

If you choose to trade based upon one indicator, then momentum will be far superior to any MA. Especially when trying to utilize a scalping methodology. PA crossing a MA only 'signals' a potential directional change. Momentum will 'proof it up'.

Regards.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Hi Edgetrader:

Is that an observation or based on analysis and testing?

What momentum period would you suggest?

I remember a study that said a 5 period exponential moving average was the best moving average for trading. Enter long when candle closes above a rising moving average. I plotted a 5 period momentum. When do you enter long based on the momentum indicator?
If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
  • #7,356
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:48am Aug 20, 2009 11:48am
Quoting DocPMD
Edge,

I've done the math on the "draw down issue" and "high hit rate compensating factor" from a theoretical mathematical basis. With Nitro, and the hours and hours of testing I've done, I can't seem to get away from a 20 pip SL or greater without having a large impact on the "high hit rate" (i.e. smaller stops decrease win percentage dramatically).

So with 5 pip TP and 20 pip SL, the threshold for the "high hit rate" is around 85% winners. If you can get to 90% it is a slam dunk system.

I can't get over 75% no matter what I do. Can...
I don't know if is the same of Edge's advice...

But from when a week ago i have followed my rules...i've made 7 days in gain...

If you want increase that 75% trade only in the focused hours and when PA starts to move...
In 7 days i've made 92% winning trades...manually...the difference is, as Edge says, in the mental part...remember 25% mechanical and 75% mental...
Market is like a puzzle, YOU have to fit the pieces!!
  • #7,357
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:49am Aug 20, 2009 11:49am
Quoting FrankenPip
Which came first physics or technical analysis?
What are we doing here physics or technical analysis? Sorry Frank, just pressing the ignore button.
  • #7,358
  • Aug 20, 2009 11:50am Aug 20, 2009 11:50am
Quoting akara
I am looking for a (BUY and SELL) SL and TP script for use with C4. Stop loss set at 30 and TP set to 15 to accomodate spread.. Or better if i can set the inputs myself. Mx fingers arent fast enough yet
There are flock of scripts out there for this. They're not EAs.
You have to make the buy/sell decision but the scripts can save you time and this can be an edge.

After you install on your platform right click and choose "modify". Here's where you enter your desired SL and TP. Mine are set at 200 and 50. The extra 0 on each is to compensate for the extra digits on my brokers platform.

There are two ways to execute these. One is to drag and drop onto the pair your trading. I prefer hotkeys. Alt B to buy, Alt S to short, Alt C to close the pair on screen and Alt X to shut down every open pair on the platform.

If you don't like these do a search at the top of the FF page for "smjones scripts". He has a few more options there from a few years back.

Good Luck.

Jim
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Short SL TP (Scalp).mq4   1 KB | 741 downloads
File Type: mq4 Long SL TP (Scalp).mq4   1 KB | 704 downloads
File Type: mq4 Close all open positions.mq4   1 KB | 567 downloads
File Type: mq4 AClose All 1 Chart.mq4   1 KB | 544 downloads
  • #7,359
  • Aug 20, 2009 12:02pm Aug 20, 2009 12:02pm
+30
Having a cold one now...

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  • #7,360
  • Aug 20, 2009 12:05pm Aug 20, 2009 12:05pm
Quoting Toledo
+30
Having a cold one now...

Attachment
Very well, done.
If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
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